Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[mnfe]

 And faking a gunshot to the head is easier than faking jumping off a building. A packet of blood and a blank shot would've done, as many people have said. Convenient how he shoots himself so there's no visible entry wound. Also would it be that impossible that the thought had occurred to Moriarty that he might have to fake his death?

 

 

 

I thought about this...I noticed that there were no skull fragments or brains after someone shooting themselves in the head.  And I did wonder - a blank in the gun, a blood pack...(although it could also just be what people are willing to show on TV).  And Sherlock never checks to see if he is actually dead.

 

But Mycroft surely was involved with the cleanup, and I'm sure he would have found out if Moriarty's body suddenly went missing and let Sherlock know.  That's why I don't think it is plausible for him to have faked his death.  Mycroft doesn't like to get his hands dirty, but surely he would make sure for the safety of his brother? 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

But Mycroft surely was involved with the cleanup, and I'm sure he would have found out if Moriarty's body suddenly went missing and let Sherlock know.  That's why I don't think it is plausible for him to have faked his death.  Mycroft doesn't like to get his hands dirty, but surely he would make sure for the safety of his brother? 

 

  And in The Empty Hearse, Mycroft had his own snipers in the area if John's shooter had to be taken out, so it's likely that Mycroft had one of his own keeping tabs on Moriarty and Sherlock should Moriarty get any ideas, so I am trusting Mofftiss on this. Jim "From IT" Moriarty is dead.

[Caya]

Welcome to the forum, dancingsiberians!

 

As for there not being brains, I'm not going to embed the image here, cause it's a bit  , but in the wonderful Aithine's screencaps you can clearly see a bit of brain matter floating on the blood here (gore warning, I mean, duh).

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Well there, way cool! Thank you, Caya!

[BLS_Pro]

 

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You are free to interpret Sherlock's intentions as you wish - maybe it was to confirm a (thought but unspoken) deduction, maybe he wanted access to material evidence against Mary prior to the arrival of the police to arrest CAM (this is the motive to which CAM refers), or maybe other people have other interpretations. However, what you think a character's motivation might be is nothing more than your personal opinion unless it is stated in the script, which it is not.

Funny that I've pointed to the facts in the script four times now and yet you keep blithely declaring they do not exist. Sherlock's explicitly stated motivation in the script is to see the vault. So, contrary to your claim, it is far more than merely "personal opinion". Nor is it, contrary to your claim, just "personal opinion" that Sherlock recognizes in the cafe that CAM has Appledore in his mind - ie that CAM himself is the "portable Appledore". That explicit revelation is the entire point of that scripted scene. And, contrary to your claim, it is not "personal opinion" but fact that the script reveals Sherlock has the entire plan put together right after discovering the vault is mental rather than digital - right down to the day it will occur - months later on Christmas - and down to the explicit motivation for it: Sherlock's "deal with the devil" is, contrary to your claim, explicitly stated right in the script, to be the betrayal of his brother - not for Mary's files - but to see the vault.

 

Everything I've stated about Sherlock's motivation has, contrary to your claims, been in the script. In fact, the script virtually beats the viewer over the head with it - especially with Sherlock's discovery that Appledore is in CAM's mind. I'm not sure why you keep trying to claim all of this doesn't exist in the script, but if it is more "fun" for you that these scripted facts not exist, then far be it for me to stand in the way of your "enjoyment". If you truly don't want to talk about them further, then I won't discuss them with you any longer either. Seems fair enough.

 

 

Please *quote* lines/stage directions - *not* 'he looked like this which meant he was thinking this'. If you can't do that, we're going to have to agree to differ and accept that none of us know except the writers - and if you are one of the writers undercover, i'm sorry but you didn't do a good enough job of conveying what you wanted to get across!

 

I'm sorry my summary of the words and actions of the script are not convincing.  However, I am more than happy to quote the actual words and actions from the script as they occur on-screen, if that is what you truly require (though, for the record, I never said anything like 'he looked like this which meant he was thinking this'.  Quite the opposite, in fact.  I have stated 'He did or saw this, which is why he looked like that'.  If you truly believe otherwise, then I would request you do the same that you request of me: provide my actual words - ie please "quote" me.)

 

Now, here is when Sherlock discovers CAM's vault is in his mind:

 

Sherlock:

"Oh, I think you're a lot more careless than you let on."

 

CAM

"Am I?"

 

Sherlock:

"It's the dead-eye stare that gives it away.  Except it's not dead-eyed, is it?

 

Sherlock takes off CAM's glasses.

 

"You're reading.  Portable Appledore.  How does it work?  Built-in flash drive?  4G wireless?"

 

Sherlock puts the glasses on.  He realizes they are normal glasses.  

 

Sherlock:

"Just ordinary spectacles."

 

CAM:

"Yes. They are."

 

We see CAM's view again - and see the readout we've seen all along, except now without the glasses.  It is thus similar to what we see when Sherlock identifies things in his mind.

 

CAM:

"You underestimate me Mr. Holmes."

 

So, as I've stated numerous times now, in the script Sherlock identifies the fact that CAM is reading. 

 

What is CAM reading though?  The script makes clear he has no papers physically in his hands.  So he's not reading physical files. 

 

The script does have CAM wearing glasses though.  Thus the script has Sherlock conclude that CAM is reading something digitally in the glasses (something akin to an HUD). 

 

The script has Sherlock attempt to confirm his deduction about what CAM is reading by taking the glasses to view the vault himself. 

 

But was CAM reading from the glasses? 

 

No. 

 

So - the script tells us Sherlock knows CAM is reading.  But the script now tells us Sherlock knows CAM was not reading physical files nor digital files.  

 

So what was CAM reading then?

 

In the script, CAM tells Sherlock his deduction - that CAM supposedly requires an external source to be able to read his files - underestimates CAM.  In other words, the script has CAM state to Sherlock that the belief that CAM requires files to be either physical or digital is an underestimation of what CAM is capable.

 

So the script tells us Sherlock knows CAM is reading. 

And the script tells us Sherlock knows CAM is not reading anything physical or digital. 

 

So if the script eliminates for Sherlock the files being physical or digital, what does the script then leave him? 

The mental, of course.  The script leaves for Sherlock only the fact that CAM is reading mental files - files in his mind - the files which the script had Sherlock call the "portable Appledore". 

 

In other words, the script leaves for Sherlock the fact that CAM holds Appledore in his his mind.

 

Pretty simple actually.  And all in the script.  One simply need pay attention to it.  

 

Now, I can provide the verbatim quotes from the script for all the rest of the points I made as well, if you really need them.  Just let me know.  However, since this is the most important point of them all - Sherlock's recognition that the "portable Appledore" is not the glasses but is in fact CAM's mind - it should suffice to prove what I've been stating.  For if the script itself is not enough to convince you, then nothing will.

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

Sorry I have to reply to everyone individually but I do not understand Multiquote (and struggle a bit with single quotes, to be honest.). I am a rather old lady and computers are not really my thing.

 

It did occur to me that he perhaps just didn't fancy her. However, I think his heart belongs to John. Not that I am saying that his body would necessarily follow where his heart leads. In my opinion, he doesn't really want a physical relationship with anyone, female or male - probably not even with John. That is not part of his biological make-up. I do think, however, that he has very strong feelings for John, feelings which go beyond the bounds of friendship. John is always first in his thoughts - when Moriarty threatens his friends, when he returns to London, when he miraculously fights his way back from death on the operating table..... His first thought, his motivation, is always John. Maybe it is just friendship but it looks very much like a man in love.

 

I think responding to everyone individually is just fine, and it's what I do myself. I have not figured out multiquote yet either and I am (comparatively speaking) young. So don't worry about it.

 

I certainly will not argue much with what you stated above. Of course John is closest to Sherlock's heart - that's pretty obvious from all we've seen so far, and besides, it's supposed to be that way. In "The Illustrious Client", Watson writes "I was nearer him than anyone else". And the doctor was not given to bragging. Of course, what that would mean with Sherlock Holmes is quite a mystery. But I would call it love. I don't know whether love is "beyond the bounds of friendship", I think you can love a friend, just like love is an appropriate word for what one (ideally) feels for close family, but that's simply a question of vocabulary and does not matter here at all. I think we basically agree.

 

I also don't think his love for one human being would stop him from sleeping with another one, or from falling in love with a woman (I think he did fall in love badly with Irene). It's just that desire does not seem pleasant to him. He probably thinks it would compromise his intellect (no wonder the Holmes brothers refer to sex as "being in a compromising situation").

 

Originally, I am sure he meant to work and live entirely alone. He even alienated himself from his parents, it seems, and there is really nothing wrong with them. It's probably a matter of safety for him: "alone protects me". It meant he didn't have a "pressure point" and he could look at the world cooly from a detached, objective point of view (as Holmes says in The Sign of the Four, "I would never marry myself least I bias my judgement"). But unlike Mycroft, he wasn't really made to like complete solitude. I always used to wonder where "I need an assistant" came from in A Study in Pink, because it didn't seem like he was used to having one. Now, in hindsight, I think it simply meant he needed company.

[T.o.b.y]

It really is too bad that we will probably never see her again. I think she could have made an interesting secondary character and it would have been a nice opportunity to give Sherlock a female friend who could match him snark for snark, and without her being too smitten with him and allowing him to walk all over her.  Lost opportunity.

 

I think that role - "female friend who can match Sherlock and does not allow him to walk all over her" - is already taken by Mary. Oh dear, sorry, we wanted to let her rest for a while. I'll go babble about this in the "Mary" thread.

 

There's no reason why Sherlock should not see Janine again, is there? They parted amicably and he said her cottage sounded nice... might become a new "bolt hole" if he ever needs to get out of London.

[Slithytove]

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Sorry I have to reply to everyone individually but I do not understand Multiquote (and struggle a bit with single quotes, to be honest.). I am a rather old lady and computers are not really my thing.

 

It did occur to me that he perhaps just didn't fancy her. However, I think his heart belongs to John. Not that I am saying that his body would necessarily follow where his heart leads. In my opinion, he doesn't really want a physical relationship with anyone, female or male - probably not even with John. That is not part of his biological make-up. I do think, however, that he has very strong feelings for John, feelings which go beyond the bounds of friendship. John is always first in his thoughts - when Moriarty threatens his friends, when he returns to London, when he miraculously fights his way back from death on the operating table..... His first thought, his motivation, is always John. Maybe it is just friendship but it looks very much like a man in love.

I think responding to everyone individually is just fine, and it's what I do myself. I have not figured out multiquote yet either and I am (comparatively speaking) young. So don't worry about it.

 

I certainly will not argue much with what you stated above. Of course John is closest to Sherlock's heart - that's pretty obvious from all we've seen so far, and besides, it's supposed to be that way. In "The Illustrious Client", Watson writes "I was nearer him than anyone else". And the doctor was not given to bragging. Of course, what that would mean with Sherlock Holmes is quite a mystery. But I would call it love. I don't know whether love is "beyond the bounds of friendship", I think you can love a friend, just like love is an appropriate word for what one (ideally) feels for close family, but that's simply a question of vocabulary and does not matter here at all. I think we basically agree.

 

I also don't think his love for one human being would stop him from sleeping with another one, or from falling in love with a woman (I think he did fall in love badly with Irene). It's just that desire does not seem pleasant to him. He probably thinks it would compromise his intellect (no wonder the Holmes brothers refer to sex as "being in a compromising situation").

 

Originally, I am sure he meant to work and live entirely alone. He even alienated himself from his parents, it seems, and there is really nothing wrong with them. It's probably a matter of safety for him: "alone protects me". It meant he didn't have a "pressure point" and he could look at the world cooly from a detached, objective point of view (as Holmes says in The Sign of the Four, "I would never marry myself least I bias my judgement"). But unlike Mycroft, he wasn't really made to like complete solitude. I always used to wonder where "I need an assistant" came from in A Study in Pink, because it didn't seem like he was used to having one. Now, in hindsight, I think it simply meant he needed company.

Yes, I think we agree more or less on the love between Sherlock and John, and differ only in that you see it as a deep friendship whereas I think it has a romantic element - an element of longing, you might say. Not that we will ever know, as it is not going to turn into a show about a gay relationship. I would not be surprised if the writers continue to tease us, though, with the occasional nod and wink towards the fans. I am happy with that.

 

As for Irene.... I'm really not sure. Certainly she means something to him - he travelled halfway across the world and risked his life to save her. I cannot decide whether he loved her just for her mind or for her body as well. As someone else here said, "brainy is the new sexy" and he is fascinated by an intellect similar to his own. On the other hand, Einstein had a brilliant mind but I wouln't want him wandering naked around my Mind Palace. (Dr Brian Cox, on the other hand... I don't know if you've seen his astronomy programmes but he is incredibly bright and very cute!)

 

So I think the jury is out on Irene. Maybe we will know more if they ever bring her back.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Did anyone else notice John channeling Sherlock in that first scene with Isaac's mom? He didn't think to let her in the door until Mary told him, he couldn't be arsed to remember who, exactly, Isaac was (he thought it was her husband), he cut right to the point of "no, WHERE is he, what's the address?" when she was trying to explain the situation. I thought this was very interesting that John, when Sherlock is not around and he's been missing that lifestyle, becomes more like Sherlock himself.

 

In addition to my "John is always a little bit like Sherlock" idea that I posted yesterday, it just occurred to me that this is probably also a nod to canon.  The opening of "Man with the Twisted Lip" has the Watsons' quiet evening at home being interrupted by the arrival of Mrs. Watson's friend Kate Whitney, who is worried about her husband Isa, because Isa has been gone on a drug binge for two days.  So in this episode, John initially thinks that Isaac is Kate's husband.

 

Mary must die.  That's canon.

 

I was just reading somewhere (Sherlock: The Casebook, I believe) that some people think Watson's intermittent marriage is merely another result of Conan Doyle's poor memory or inattention to continuity, like Watson's wandering wound and his variable first name.  Moftiss have already had a bit of fun with those latter two items, and they haven't been exactly carbon-copying the canon in any case -- so I suspect they are deciding Mary's fate according to what makes the best story, rather than because Conan Doyle said so.  They've obviously felt free to change her past -- so I have no idea what they'll come up with for her future.

 

Nice to meet you, dancingsiberians!    It's always nice when lurkers decide to come out of the woodwork!

 

[Zain]

I like to think of John and Sherlock's feelings as love - as agape, love of the soul. Like many I can totally see them together but while it sure is more canon than in other adaptions, it never becomes physical.

 

I wouldn't mind a one-episode return for Irene.

Like you, I find it difficult to give their relationship a name. Irene truly was taken with Sherlock (body and mind). I think maybe it's that what got to Sherlock unlike ever before - the interest in his mind. I cannot say I got the impression that he was taken with her mind. He respected her intellect, yes, but did he desire her because of it? I actually think it was more like he desired the idea of Irene, someone who would want him for his mind.

Sherlock seems to have sworn off relationships, whether out of experience or not. He believes that love rules over one's head, and that's something he fears. Sherlock fears to become a different person, to lose the tight control he has got over his body and which he executes through his mind. Irene then became tempting to him. She's what he fears but also something new. Someone that values his mind just as much as he does. Someone who understands his priorities.

 

And, Carol, I completely missed that canon reference. Damn! Well-spotted. That makes sense. I still like to think of it as something that characterizes John. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Me too!

 

[Slithytove]

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I like to think of John and Sherlock's feelings as love - as agape, love of the soul. Like many I can totally see them together but while it sure is more canon than in other adaptions, it never becomes physical.

 

I wouldn't mind a one-episode return for Irene.

Like you, I find it difficult to give their relationship a name. Irene truly was taken with Sherlock (body and mind). I think maybe it's that what got to Sherlock unlike ever before - the interest in his mind. I cannot say I got the impression that he was taken with her mind. He respected her intellect, yes, but did he desire her because of it? I actually think it was more like he desired the idea of Irene, someone who would want him for his mind.

Sherlock seems to have sworn off relationships, whether out of experience or not. He believes that love rules over one's head, and that's something he fears. Sherlock fears to become a different person, to lose the tight control he has got over his body and which he executes through his mind. Irene then became tempting to him. She's what he fears but also something new. Someone that values his mind just as much as he does. Someone who understands his priorities.

 

And, Carol, I completely missed that canon reference. Damn! Well-spotted. That makes sense. I still like to think of it as something that characterizes John.

I think you might have a point there about Sherlock needing to keep tight control over his body. After all, we know he doesn't eat during a case. He claims that it slows him down mentally but, as a scientist, he must know that this is not true. In the original stories, Watson says Holmes has avoided eating during cases to the point where he passes out. It does not take a genius to see that this is counterproductive, so there must be something else going on and it is possible that he does feel, for some reason, the need for strict physical control. Maybe Sherlock denies himself sex for the same reason, because he is afraid of losing control.

 

That is interesting, and makes me look at him in a new light. Thank you.

[Loekie]

 

 Maybe Sherlock denies himself sex for the same reason, because he is afraid of losing control.

 

 

 

 

And gets drunk? I think Sherlock is already sleeping with Molly, if only to stay in control with other women. That's why Molly did not seem to be jealous when Sherlock threw a flower to Janine.

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

I think you might have a point there about Sherlock needing to keep tight control over his body. After all, we know he doesn't eat during a case. He claims that it slows him down mentally but, as a scientist, he must know that this is not true.

 

  Or maybe he feels that stopping to eat in the middle of a case just slows him down. He's on the scent and to deviate costs him time, and time could, in his mind, jeopardize his case. And a lot of people get sluggish and sleepy after eating....something that would annoy Mr. Sherlock Holmes no end.

[leanne_maybe]

RadCap,the script could suggest that Sherlock knew Magnusson could access his vaults mentally, not that there are no physical vaults at Appledore. So there are a lot of ways for the writers to go with it,and I am happy to agree to disagree while they do,as the mods requested.

[leanne_maybe]

Oops,my previous comment was submitted last night,don't know how it took so long to show! And it's relating to something now about 3 pages back. Oh well.

[leanne_maybe]

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What I didn't get about Janine though was that she was being blackmailed by Magnusson, yes? He mentions how she reacts to having her face flicked when he is flicking John's face. But she is able to sell her story to his rivals and leave him 'spitting', and swan off to Sussex. How is it possible ....

Well, all we know for sure is that she was his assistant. Maybe he was just practicing his "flicking" technique on her? Or maybe that's how he keeps his employees in line? Magnussen (unlike the original Milverton) apparently extorts power rather than money, so he doesn't seem to bother blackmailing "unimportant" people like Janine. There would be no power for him to gain.

That's an interesting point - power not money. How long was Mary being blackmailed for then? I thought it was from before she met John, but the power she had was leverage to Mycroft,so there wouldn't have been much gain for Magnusson prior to Sherlock's return. Unless Mary has something else up her sleeve....! I suppose an assassin is privy to a lot of secrets and grudges...

[Slithytove]

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Maybe Sherlock denies himself sex for the same reason, because he is afraid of losing control.

 

 

 

 

N

And gets drunk? I think Sherlock is already sleeping with Molly, if only to stay in control with other women. That's why Molly did not seem to be jealous when Sherlock threw a flower to Janine.

Yes, getting drunk would be another loss of control, which is why he went to such lengths to avoid it (only to have his system sabotaged by John spiking their drinks.)

 

Already sleeping with Molly? Wow, that's a pretty wild guess. But, if it was true, I would feel sorry for her if he was only doing it to get it out of his system. Poor Molly - she really deserves Lestrade, who would be good for her, but I doubt she would ever want him.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I think the reason why she wasn't jealous when Sherlock threw the flower is because she was supposed to be engaged and was dancing with her betrothed, ie Tom. But she did seem to be the only one who noticed Sherlock leaving and her face showed it, but she still didn't go after him. As for Molly sleeping with Sherlock, I don't think so, not really. The look on his face in the lab when she said her and Tom was having lots of sex was priceless but not one of jealousy. And if she and Sherlock were already having sex, why would she bother telling Sherlock about what she and Tom were doing?

[Loekie]

I think the reason why she wasn't jealous when Sherlock threw the flower is because she was supposed to be engaged and was dancing with her betrothed, ie Tom. But she did seem to be the only one who noticed Sherlock leaving and her face showed it, but she still didn't go after him. As for Molly sleeping with Sherlock, I don't think so, not really. The look on his face in the lab when she said her and Tom was having lots of sex was priceless but not one of jealousy. And if she and Sherlock were already having sex, why would she bother telling Sherlock about what she and Tom were doing?

 

It has started after that of course! She slapped him in his face just because they are so close now. Otherwise she would not DARE to slap him in his face.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Every one has their headcanon....and if you ship Sherlolly....I have no problem with that. Though he did mention the fact that she was no longer engaged to Tom while she was slapping him around and dressing him down for being stupid and why was he risking his greatest gift, which is in canon...but it was Watson doing the yelling...and while Watson didn't hit Holmes he may have wanted to. Yay for Molly!

 

  But anyway...he said he was thankful that she wasn't wearing the ring while in the process of hitting him. One might think he would have noticed that if they were sleeping together and wouldn't have needed to deduce it in front of John and Billy....but then....that's just me and my take on it. Ship away.

[T.o.b.y]

Every one has their headcanon....and if you ship Sherlolly....go for it.

 

I strongly suspect that is the writers' opinion as well. And they have made her "available" again. I think, just like they never really told us for sure how Sherlock was supposed to have faked his death, they will never finally pair him off either, because they know full well a lot of people spend a lot of time doing that in their own heads. While it's sometimes a bit frustrating that so many questions are never answered on this show, I guess it serves an important purpose in keeping all members of the audience as happy as possible and continually interested. As Sherlock says (though admittedly in a slightly different context), "I prefer to keep you guessing".

 

[Slithytove]

When Sherlock meets Mary at Leinster Gardens, did I hear right? Did he say he won the dummy houses from the Clarence House Cannibal?

 

Surely...surely not Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall? Or even better, the late Queen Mother?

 

Oh, I wish.....

[Karie]

Long-time lurker, first post.

 

 

Welcome, dancingsiberians!

 

 

 

 

An appealing scenario:  There was an episode of CSI years ago where they found a pregnant teenager minutes after she committed suicide by hanging.  She was dead but the baby was at term and still moving.  They performed a cesarian to save the baby  in what was a really emotional and touching scene.  So, after Mary gets shot by the next villain,  Sherlock can save John's baby while John is freaking out in the background.  Yea, I like that.

 

 

That's certainly an interesting idea, but I got very hung up on the highlighted part. 

 

Sherlock is going to save John's baby while the doctor freaks out? The same Sherlock who had to ask what to do while a man bled out on the floor, and had to be instructed to hold pressure on the wound, is going to perform a Cesarean on someone by himself? If they did something like that, I would find it well beyond the realm of belief for me, personally.  I like that Sherlock, in all his amazing intelligence, doesn't actually know everything. I prefer him to still be human, and not a superhero. 

 

I am a little bit jealous that you get to watch the episodes from the beginning now, while it's all over for the rest of us. I do hope you'll come back and comment in each thread as you watch season 3.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Mofftiss and Co does seem very happy with this Fandom and doesn't mind letting our collective imaginations run rampant. I don't think I have ever been a part of such an active one nor one that the shows producers actually took notice of and played with...except maybe Star Trek.