Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[julia5]

 

I like to think that Mycroft planned to rescue him from the situation like he did at the beginning of TEH. He did say after all that losing Sherlock would break his heart.

 

I really want to believe that, but then why did Mycroft tell Sherlock to turn down the job when they are at their parents' house?  He presented it like it really was a "six months and then Sherlock dies" kind of deal.  Plus, when John asked Sherlock about how long he'd be in Eastern Europe, Sherlock seemed convinced he was going to die.  The clincher for me was the "remember the other one?" part...kind of ruins my conception of Mycroft as loving older brother.

 

 

 

I don't feel the need to justify my still liking Mary. My reasons are there in the text presented to us, and also in the characters evaluations of themselves.  She was CIA and did some sort of 'wetwork' - so possibly a bit of a sociopath herself, yes? Well John LOVES himself a sociopath, doesn't he? Sherlock laid it out pretty clearly and John didn't disagree. Also it didn't seem like he forgave her quickly or easily. It appeared to me that John and Mary hadn't really talked or been in close proximity for a at least three months by the time they're all together at Christmas - she actually says something like that. 

 

Mary is a bigger-than-life character in a show about bigger-than-life people.I liked that she was ... unusual. I could be distressed that the love interests in Sherlock end up being killers or extortionists. But I can go with it because for me it made for an interesting story. Sherlock believes she didn't want to kill him. She called the ambulance and saved his life. I also trust his judgement. It's his judgement that counts here.  He's the person who was shot.

 

 

Completely agree.  Mary did exactly what Sherlock would have done in that situation, and I love her even more for it. 

[Caya]

Something that bugged me yesterday, but I couldn't put into words until I'd slept over it - why did Magnussen present the fact that his "vault" was all in his head as such a clever thing? Imho, admitting that to Sherlock of all people was the stupidest thing he could ever have done. It's certainly not like Sherlock's big brother hadn't let people vanish before. Storing all the blackmailing knowledge in his head doesn't make him smart in my eyes, it makes him incredibly vulnerable. Not even a dead man's switch? Stupid move. Well he did find out just how stupid a couple minutes later, but still, why did anyone ever think that was a good idea?

[sherlockandjohn]

I dreamt about Sherlock (the show, sadly not really the man himself) and I woke up thinking about it and I still can't forgive Mary. For lying, yes. For having a dodgy past, yes. For planning to kill Magnussen, yes. For shooting Sherlock? No. Never. And John DOES forgive her. For trying to kill his best friend (because I can't swallow that guff about her "saving Sherlock's life" - it WAS a kill shot because he DIED and only survived because he saved himself). I just can't forgive her, which makes me unable to see why John can, and Sherlock as well who seems to forgive her with such ease ("we can trust Mary," "give my love to Mary," "that's my girl").

 

After TRF I was DEVESTATED but satisfied with the episode and my heart was so full of Sherlock and John's love for each other. Now all I can think about is how the hell Mary got away with what she did, how she's ruined my love of her and how I now see her as a real obstacle to the Sherlock and John-ness that is at the heart of the show.

 

Exactly how I feel. I can forgive her for all the other stuff, too, but not for shooting Sherlock - not even when she decided to shoot just slightly off-target. It could have still gone completely wrong if Sherlock hadn't helped himself. And the way she talks to Sherlock, while he is recovering, "Don't tell John" - the way she says the words - clearly doesn't sound to me like she's sorry about what she did. Which I'm sure she isn't. She'll risk Sherlock's life to keep her secrets from John in a misguided attempt to help him - or help herself. And Sherlock seems to understand her selfish love, which would seem to say quite a bit about him too, except that he himself demonstrates such unselfish love and sacrifice towards the end.

 

I mean, what are the writers really trying to tell us? That Mary's actions can be justified by the fact that John would be crushed if he knew the truth? What if he should find out years later? And what about Sherlock; if he died, would that be any less devastating to John?

 

I am, however, re-evaluating my opinion on John. He does get very angry initially upon finding out, and he stays angry for quite a while - according to Mary, he has given her the silent-treatment for months. But unfortunately we don't get to see that. It might have been a bit satisfying. In the end he decides to let the past be the past, and the forgiveness-scene is actually quite moving, or it would be, if it wasn't overshadowed by the real problem - that she put a bullet in Sherlock's chest. Don't mess with Sherlock!! But the writers don't even approach John's wrath at that, and he has to be angry about it! The forgiveness comes too easily, without really dealing with the extent of the issues.

 

If they kill off Mary, or have John divorce her, I'll probably be persuaded to watch the following episodes; otherwise not, because I have a big, big issue with her now.

 

Oh, and the whole John-subconsciously-wanted-to-marry-an-ex-killer? Makes him seem darker in a way that I dislike.

 

Welcome to Sherlock Into Darkness.

[sh_fan]

I hate that I wasn't able to watch this episode until later, and now there is already 9 pages of discussion!  Bummer for me. -_-

 

Well, I won't rehash all that's been discussed, except to say that I agree about how ridiculous it is that John, knowing that Mary's killed people in the past, doesn't even want to know about it?  And she's the mother of his child?

 

I am glad they finally got back to more of a plot in this one - the first episode disappointed me for emotional reasons with the way Sherlock treated John, and the second episode was just lame the way they stuck little "mini-cases" throughout the episode.  Finally, a consistent case throughout the episode - and with so much from the (granted, different) stories.  I thought the Magnussen character was so consistent with the Milverton character from the book.  I didn't like that Sherlock was the one to shoot him, but, given that, in the story, Sherlock wouldn't help Lestrade because he was glad Milverton was dead, it wasn't a stretch for me - especially given the Vow he made at the end of SoT.

 

The real "ugh!" moment for me was when Moriarty was brought back.  I thought it was ridiculous.  Although I'm not convinced he's actually alive, given that no one's truly seen him.  But if he is, and he comes back, I think it will demonstrate that the show is going downhill and the writers are quickly running out of ideas.

 

And, I supremely agree with the person who talked about Sherlock and John's friendship being the top thing for me, and I don't like anyone to get in the way of it.  Especially an assassin-wife who lies to the man she "loves" from the moment she meets him and then kills his best friend and doesn't apologize for it.  I wonder how they're going to kill her off (since we know she died in the books - with no children).

[Dalwhat]

I've only finished watching VOW.  I'm going to reserve most of my comments until after a second viewing and reflection.  I will say though that this depiction of Sherlock (and the depiction of Sherlock in THREE) completely support all the conclusions I made about the deficiencies and plain bad writing in HEARSE.  The Sherlock depicted in HEARSE contradicts everything about him which came before - and after - that episode. 

 

Especially given all that has since transpired, there simply is NO excuse for HEARSE.  None!

 

It was just bad storytelling.

 

 

I have to take issue (and create an account to respond). The series is (loosely) based on the stories of Arthur Conan Doyle in the same way the American Series Elementary is. In both instances the settings are altered and the characters only draw upon facets of the originals. Similarly the stories are not verbatim as written. Stop complaining that the show is not true to the spirit of the original. For many I would question what original they are referring to in any case. Previous TV series or films are NOT the original. It is the books that are the original source. As a piece of original drama I find little to criticise in any of the episodes. The show is the creation of Moffat and Gatiss using literary characters as inspiration. That is all.

 

I'm not criticising RadCap specifically here, just using his post as an example of the critics that seem to expect the protagonists to be and act precisely as they were written over a hundred years ago even though they are now presented in the 21st century. While not denying anyone their opinion I would suggest that it is their preconceptions and resulting disappointment that is the issue here rather than taking the writing on its own merits and judging it thus.

[Slithytove]

I've only seen the episode once, so I may have missed something, but what exactly was the point of Mary shooting Sherlock? If she wanted to prevent John knowing the truth, she should have shot to kill. If she just wanted to escape, she could have shot him somewhere less dangerous than the abdomen - the kneecap, for instance. What did she achieve by seriously injuring him but leaving him able to expose her to John?

 

I'm not particularly saddened by the revelations about Mary, as I don't feel as emotionally invested in her as we've not known her so long, but I hate what this has done to John's character. Of course you should prioritise your spouse over your best friend, but not when your spouse has nearly murdered that friend.

 

John's line about the future being more important than the past is fine when all you are worried about is your partner's previous love life but not when you have just learned that they were a professional killer! Sherlock seems to forgive her because she didn't shoot him through the head - ignoring the fact that he flat- lined and was, to all intents and purposes, dead at that point - and I can almost accept that because his sense of ethics was always skewed. But John....John had a moral centre. He was a good man. How could he ignore the pain she inflicted on Sherlock plus the suffering of her previous victims, and presumably their families, just because he loves her and she is pregnant? What happened to his morality?

 

John and Sherlock have both killed. John shot the cabbie to save Sherlock. Sherlock shot Magnussen to fulfill his vow to protect the Watsons. John doesn't know who Mary has killed, how many or why. For all he knows, her victims might be innocent people. Magnussen said she was a freelance at one point, which suggests she killed for money - basically, she was the same as the people Moriarty hired to threaten Sherlock's friends. To compare Sherlock's need for forgiveness to Mary's is to ignore the nature of their lies. Yes, they both lied to John, but Sherlock was not covering up the fact that he was a professional murderer.

 

To say that John is addicted to danger is no excuse. Maybe that drew him, unknowingly, to Mary but it does not justify his decision to forgive her for nearly killing Sherlock and to turn a blind eye to her previous crimes. It simply does not accord with the idea of the moral man we believed John to be. He enjoyed the thrill of helping Sherlock but he was never tempted to help Moriarty instead, which would have been even more exciting, because he was a good man. Now he has chosen someone who might have worked for the likes of Moriarty - someone who shot his best friend simply because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time - and it seems wrong to me that he would do that.

 

As for Mycroft sending his brother to almost certain death.....Horrible, cold but not out of character. He, at least, is consistent.

[sherlockandjohn]

Aw, welcome into the discussion, sh_fan

 

Yep, Sherlock and John's friendship is definitely one of my pressure points! I hope Mary is killed off in the first episode of series 4, but logically they'd probably wait with a major character death until the last episode of a series - if they kill her off at all!

 

I suspect that Moriarty might not be back, and it's a trick... but you cannot be sure with these writers, which series 3 has definitely taught me. However, considering how much I dislike Mary now, I would actually not mind if Jim is back - at least he's good fun most of the time! And that will be all the series holds for me - humor, and detective work (if they bring more of that back). And Sherlock.

 

It has officially become a new show for me, after that stunt with Mary. I will cherish the first 8 episodes as the show I fell in love with.

[Loekie]

Janine was suggesting that Sherlock is gay - "I know what kind of man you are" "but we still could be friends"

Edited January 13, 2014 by Caya
language - nothing wrong with being gay

[Loekie]

Thanks for editing, Caya.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

I have thoroughly enjoyed the last few episodes with Mary in them, and she has not really come between John and Sherlock yet. In fact, series 3 so far is more about their friendship than ever before. However, I'm also not sure how well it would work for me in the long run. I would like to see more of the crime solving again, the duo, the 'just the two of us against the rest of the world'. But it would also break my heart to see John grieve not only a lost wife but a lost child. Even if it's fictional, because it's honestly not the child I'd grieve for; it's John - I know him and love him.

 

I might be a bit cold too (though I don't really consider myself such), but this is, after all, fiction, and the reason I watch the series is mainly Sherlock and John. And the development of Sherlock's character; he is immensely interesting.

 

Anyway, I still love this show, and I have a feeling I still will, regardless what happens next.

 

 

Spoiler for HLV:

I find it kind of funny (in a sad way) that I could have been so wrong. Mary's death would have been a blessing in comparison.

 

[Chanel]

Just watched Sherlock 3.03 (for the third time!) and wanted to chat about it, so very new here and please let me know if I make any blunders.

 

I was sort of surprised to see so many comments where people didn't like this and that because I totally loved every minute of this. I was truly surprised to like Mary as I'm an avid SH/JW shipper but I really really liked her. I was surprised she didn't die, but only because her death was canon and I thought she was dying when she sagged in the xmas scene. I was so shocked and surprised that she was in Magnusson's(?) office and just about had a heart attack when she shot Sherlock but the scenes around that were so entertaining that I'm happy to dismiss that giant plot hole. I think her betrayal of John was less malicious than Sherlock's betrayal, and John forgave Sherlock easy enough, plus add in the fact that he doesn't know what she actually did before meeting him, I can see why he forgave her so easily. He loves her, and she's having his baby.

 

I loved the family and mycroft scenes, as I always do, my fave bit with Mycroft was his complaints about christmas lasting all week when it was 2pm, and the smoking and heartbreak bit. In my head Mycroft would never leave Sherlock to die, so he definitely would have stepped in before the 6 months were up. Maybe he stepped in after 4 minutes???

 

Because I don't think Moriarty is still alive. All we see at the end is a picture of JM with the chin moving and a voice over saying 'miss me'. I think it's a new player, villain. Someone from Morairty's team, but def not JM himself.

 

In fact, the only bit I hated was Magnusson, who was well played because he was just vile and I wanted to see someone blow his brains out after the first scene with him and the licking. I hoped and expected John to kill him. I was disappointed with the last scene where John just took the flicking abuse because I desperately wanted to John to say 'It's all in your head? fantastic!' and then shoot the (bad word) in the face. I think John picks sociopath friends to hide his own (much lesser) sociopathic tendencies and it is not unrealistic for John to shoot CAM to protect Mary and Sherlock, bringing it a full circle to the first ep in season 1 where he kills the cabbie. Anyway, all those little plotty bits will get rewritten by fanficcers so I'll be happy soon enough.

 

This whole season has taken me on a rollercoaster of highs and lows and I've loved every minute.

 

I'm happy that I don't know the canon so I'm not at all upset with this version, but I have read a thing about a brother before, (probably wikipedia) which said that it was a common theme in the view of people that studied the original Sherlock Holmes stories that Sherlock and Mycroft probably had an older brother only because in those days the oldest sons stayed home and managed the estate (that canon Mycroft and Sherlock came from) while the second son took up a job in civil service (such as Mycroft had)

 

One of the things I like about the writers is those little throw away lines they give the characters that spawn fantastic fanfic. They really write for the fans. I'm hoping for a deluge of new stuff now that the season is over to keep me entertained while I impatiently wait for season 4.

 

Thanks for reading, if you made it this far, lol.

[Mr. Holmes]

Just seems way too over the top to me to make Mary an assassin.  And I didn't get how John being attracted to danger had to do with it.  Even subconsciously, it's not like he knew any of this about Mary beforehand. 

 

Did anyone catch the bit about Sherlock and Mycroft having a third sibling?  Haven't seen much discussion on that. 

 

Lastly, I really hope the Moriarty thing is a ruse.  I loved Moriarty, but these kind of villains need to avoid over exposure.  

[sanna1997]

When Sherlock shot Magnusson... I was literally crying! It was so selfless and sweet!

[Dalwhat]

Bit confused about the whole Moriarty business at the end providing Sherlock with a stay of execution. I wasn't aware that the "government" was aware of Moriarty being such a threat. I thought he was just a Sherlock fixation rather like CAM? Certainly not important enough to overlook Sherlock shooting Rupert Murdoch?

[Dalwhat]

The real "ugh!" moment for me was when Moriarty was brought back.  I thought it was ridiculous.  Although I'm not convinced he's actually alive, given that no one's truly seen him.  But if he is, and he comes back, I think it will demonstrate that the show is going downhill and the writers are quickly running out of ideas.

 

 

 

I would prefer the explanation being yes he is dead but that someone recognised it to be a valid excuse to save Sherlock from the "death sentence" in eastern Europe. Orchestrated possibly even by Sherlock himself or Irene Adler?

[sanna1997]

Bit confused about the whole Moriarty business at the end providing Sherlock with a stay of execution. I wasn't aware that the "government" was aware of Moriarty being such a threat. I thought he was just a Sherlock fixation rather like CAM? Certainly not important enough to overlook Sherlock shooting Rupert Murdoch?

 

Microft is well aware of the threat Moriarty poses to Britain,

so I guess he's the one that made sure Sherlock came back.

[Slithytove]

I do not understand how anyone can say that Sherlock's betrayal of John's trust was worse than Mary's.

 

Yes, it is bad to have to say "Sorry I pretended to kill myself in front of you, and then went away for 2 years."

 

Far, far worse to have to say, "Sorry I married you under false pretences and, by the way, I am a professional murderer who just gunned down your dearest friend in cold blood."

 

Also, I may be alone in this but I hope Moriarty isn't dead. (Though I suspect that it is a trick to lead us all on.) I miss his insanity, and the fact that his complicated evil-doing seemed to serve no real purpose! All that stuff with the Crown Jewels, etc, was such a waste of money and energy for no obvious result (the computer code being a hoax) except an over-complicated way of driving Sherlock to the edge. Wonderfully pointless and mad.

[MrsHudsonsbins]

Gosh, I'm surprised that there's so  much negativity about the episode.  I highlighted last week that I was concerned that Mary wasn't all she seemed to be (Liar)

 

but I don't think it's a fair comment that 'most of the fandom hate Mary'  I was prepared not to like her, but I do! I've seen very little against her on Twitter/Tumblr. I always liked the character in the book and of course John falls for her immediately there. 

 

I really didn't know what to expect, but I did enjoy it immensely and for me, both Mark Gatiss and Ben. C played some beautiful scenes, and some genuine brotherly tenderness between mycroft and 'Sherl'/'Shezza'

 

I'm not sure what to make of the scene with Molly. It was great to see her so in control (and no longer engaged!!) and I thought Sherlock showed real remorse when she gave him that dressing down.

 

I have the blues today I'll admit, not looking forward to another long wait until Series 4.

 

 

Can I just add, one more thing (I liked the Columbo reference!) that the only thing that spoiled it for me as someone working in theatre/TV was the make up!!! Sherlocks make up was actually running in the padded cell scene. Very yellow and poorly done. Sorry. Had to mention it!

 

 

Kate

[Slithytove]

I did love the episode. It was dark, imaginative and inventive. The only negative thing was how it shattered John's role as the moral centre of the stories, the good man who acts as a counterweight to Sherlock's whirlwind ego. To learn that Mary inflicted an agonising wound on Sherlock and nearly killed him, and that she has done worse (actually killing people) in the past, and John is okay with that.... I find it hard to get my head round that idea. Can't help thinking that if Conan Doyle's Watson learned that Mary Morstan had nearly murdered Holmes, and had murdered other people, he would not have clasped her in his arms. He was too good for that.

 

So, a dazzling episode but very thought-provoking to say the least. I suppose that is a good set up for the next series!

 

Poor Sherlock. He was right first time, when he said "Alone protects me.". What has he got in his life? A best friend's wife who brutally guns him down. A best friend who turns a blind eye to that attack and his wife's previous murders. A brother who saves him from prison by sending him to his death.

 

All he needs now is for Molly to slander him, Lestrade to frame him and Mrs Hudson to spit in his tea....

[sherlockandjohn]

I do not understand how anyone can say that Sherlock's betrayal of John's trust was worse than Mary's.

 

Yes, it is bad to have to say "Sorry I pretended to kill myself in front of you, and then went away for 2 years."

 

Far, far worse to have to say, "Sorry I married you under false pretences and, by the way, I am a professional murderer who just gunned down your dearest friend in cold blood."

 

Also, I may be alone in this but I hope Moriarty isn't dead. (Though I suspect that it is a trick to lead us all on.) I miss his insanity, and the fact that his complicated evil-doing seemed to serve no real purpose! All that stuff with the Crown Jewels, etc, was such a waste of money and energy for no obvious result (the computer code being a hoax) except an over-complicated way of driving Sherlock to the edge. Wonderfully pointless and mad.

 

I agree with everything you've said, including the bit about Moriarty. After HLV I miss the 'good old times' when it was detective work, a mad but funny villain, and Sherlock and John against the rest of the world (though one can certainly argue whether the last has been lost or not). Still love TEH and TSoT, though... at least to the degree that I can ignore Ms. Morstan/Mrs. Watson.

 

Speaking of which, I just remembered the scene from TEH in the restaurant; that wonderful, preposterous, but poignant scene between Sherlock and John. Now, when I think of Mary's reactions (she said "do you have any idea what you've done to him?"), I get angry. She is such a hypocrite. I am going to have to dig very, very deep in order to find empathy, but I think I might actually try. Might be a good lesson for me. I feel very negative but it just hurt so much to have her pull the gun on Sherlock, and then having Sherlock defend her.

 

Yeah, I'm going to have to dig deep, but I also have to be realistic. I don't want to make excuses for her.

[BLS_Pro]

I agree about how ridiculous it is that John, knowing that Mary's killed people in the past, doesn't even want to know about it?

 

John is a military man.  He too has killed people in the past.  So both he and she are killers.

 

[BLS_Pro]

I have to take issue (and create an account to respond).

Stop complaining that the show is not true to the spirit of the original.

 

I'm not criticising RadCap specifically here, just using his post as an example of the critics that seem to expect the protagonists to be and act precisely as they were written over a hundred years ago even though they are now presented in the 21st century. While not denying anyone their opinion I would suggest that it is their preconceptions and resulting disappointment that is the issue here rather than taking the writing on its own merits and judging it thus.

 

Dalwhat, you're proceeding from a false premise.  I never compared the show to the "original".  I compared this episode to previous episodes.  And that is certainly a valid thing to do.

 

[leanne_maybe]

Regarding Moriarty - was I the only one who saw the bit after the credits with him walking around and talking? I thought at the end of the last series that the person we saw is an actor saying lines fed to him by Moriarty, as Moriarty did all the way through The Great Game, and the 'Richard Brookes tale was a kind of a double bluff. Then when I saw the TV screens at the end of this episode, I thought I was right, as the photo wasn't actually moving. But then after the credits we actually saw the person we saw shoot himself in TRF walking around and speaking, so that does seem to suggest he is actually coming back.

[Dalwhat]

 

I have to take issue (and create an account to respond).

Stop complaining that the show is not true to the spirit of the original.

 

I'm not criticising RadCap specifically here, just using his post as an example of the critics that seem to expect the protagonists to be and act precisely as they were written over a hundred years ago even though they are now presented in the 21st century. While not denying anyone their opinion I would suggest that it is their preconceptions and resulting disappointment that is the issue here rather than taking the writing on its own merits and judging it thus.

 

Dalwhat, you're proceeding from a false premise.  I never compared the show to the "original".  I compared this episode to previous episodes.  And that is certainly a valid thing to do.

 

 

 

It's called character development?

[leanne_maybe]

I definitely thought Mary's story was more exaggerated than I expected. I thought she was being blackmailed, so may end up killing to escape this, and presumably she had done something bad, but not to that extent! I am also somewhat disappointed at where they have taken her character, and am confused about why she shot Sherlock - as commented earlier, she must have known he wouldn't go straight to the police. I wonder whether, in the arc of the story telling, we are meant to see Sherlock betray John to 'soften the blow' of John then betraying Sherlock by not trying to rescue him at the end. But I don't think it makes John a bad or immoral character for choosing his wife and baby (the baby at least is innocent) over Sherlock, especially when John would almost certainly be killed, while Sherlock has a powerful protector (and I don't believe Mycroft was going to just leave him to die - that's his pressure point!)