Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[T.o.b.y]

I agree with you, Fox. I'm sure Sherlock did not let John burn that flash drive before had a chance to look at it, so I guess he knew enough about her past by the time they visited Magnussen to make up his mind about her. I also don't think Sherlock condemned her for shooting him at all. If anything, he respected her for it and he believes his "surgery" theory (and I think the audience is meant to, as well).

 

I just noticed that, long before he knew she was an assassin, Sherlock never said anything disparaging to or about her, and that is kind of a first. His friends aren't usually exempt from his singular charm...

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

I just noticed that, long before he knew she was an assassin, Sherlock never said anything disparaging to or about her, and that is kind of a first. His friends aren't usually exempt from his singular charm...

 

 

It seems to me, that in the time between their first meeting and the scene at the airport, if Sherlock had anything against her, he would still be offish and snarky....but he is pretty darn warm towards her.....and she would know whether or not he was bluffing or just play acting.  There would be no sense for him to continue any kind of charade.

[Slithytove]

Maybe Sherlock has an ulterior motive for gaining and keeping her friendship.....If the explanation of TRF is genuine, the Holmes brothers play a long game involving a great deal of duplicity, including a lot of (rather cruel) lying to poor John. I wouldn't put it past them to keep Mary in John's life if she is a baddie, as long as Sherlock is certain that John is not the target. (I'm not entirely sure that Mycroft would care.)

 

I don't really expect S4 to play out like this - I expect Mary to turn out to have a tragic past that supposedly justifies her crimes, and maybe to sacrifice herself to save someone else's life, thus supposedly redeeming herself - but I would like it to all be a cunning plan.....

[Arcadia]

I hope it's not about lying to John. That is so two years ago.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

At least John is not in the dark about Mary. He is fully clued in about what she can do....and if John has actually seen what was on the thumb drive then if Mary is still trying to play them, there is no leverage. It's not about lying to John any more because Sherlock had John sit in that chair in the "Empty House".

[Carol the Dabbler]

... Sherlock's attitude to Mary is definitely odd - he literally lets her get away with murder....

... none of the other people he likes are spared his usual rudeness and arrogance the way Mary is....

 

I think Sherlock respects Mary.  She can see through his usual phoney explanations. She doesn't dish out a lot of baloney. She looks at things from a pragmatic point of view, much as he does. And there's some sort of chemistry between them that even Sherlock can't ignore.

 

 

... I love it when the photographer in The Sign of Three says "just the bride and groom, please", and Sherlock doesn't budge. As if he's just gotten married to Mary, too.

I was taking it as just Sherlock's usual obliviousness to social niceties, but yeah, maybe subconsciously he was thinking of it as sort of a threesome (with himself as the platonic partner). 

 

 

... At least that's what my gut is telling me.....and it could be wrong....but I have to go with it.

That's about all any of us can really rely on at this point, isn't it? We can use our heads, but obviously some (if not all)of us have the logic wrong at this point. At least by listening to our gut, we know what we want to be true.

 

 

... I'm sure Sherlock did not let John burn that flash drive before had a chance to look at it, so I guess he knew enough about her past by the time they visited Magnussen to make up his mind about her. I also don't think Sherlock condemned her for shooting him at all. If anything, he respected her for it and he believes his "surgery" theory (and I think the audience is meant to, as well).

 

I just noticed that, long before he knew she was an assassin, Sherlock never said anything disparaging to or about her, and that is kind of a first. His friends aren't usually exempt from his singular charm...

I'm still thinking that Sherlock snuck a peek at that flash drive, without John even suspecting that he did so. And whatever he saw was apparently at least consistent with his first impression of her (you're right, he's nice to her right off the bat -- hadn't thought of that). I'm not at all sure that Sherlock actually believes the "surgery" theory -- mostly I think he wants John to believe it. But he clearly does respect her -- for whatever reason.

[T.o.b.y]

But he clearly does respect her -- for whatever reason.

 

Well, she is like him in many ways. Intelligent, observant, independent. She is funny, too, and from the very first didn't show any reservation towards Sherlock, quite the contrary. And you could say he owes her some gratitude for picking up the pieces he left behind after Reichenbach - who knows in what condition John would have been after those two years if she hadn't shown up?

 

When Sherlock finds out Mary is actually more than a competent nurse and John's loving wife, I think part of him is actually pleased. He likes "extraordinary" people. And Mary, it seems, is one of those who, like Sherlock himself, are on the side of the angels - just most certainly not one of them.

 

[Slithytove]

Sherlock's values are very peculiar. He is drawn to Irene - intellectually, physically or both - who exploits and humiliates him much more than he is to Molly, who loves him and would do anything for him. Obviously, it may be that he is sexually attracted to Irene and not to Molly, but he seems to treat the former with wary respect and affection whereas most of the time he is barely civil to the latter. TEH is the only time when he is nice to her for a prolonged period of time, and that might simply be because he needs someone else in his life when John is out of the picture.

 

Similarly, he seems to have a love-hate relationship with Jim, an incredibly dangerous psychopath who excites Sherlock with his ingenuity and intelligence. Of course, Sherlock finds him less delightful when it is John in the Semtex vest, and appears to be angry and distressed by him in TRF (but who knows now what was real and what was fake in TRF?). The fact remains, though, that he did find Jim thrilling - as compared, for instance, to John's gut reaction of horror and disgust, which was a more normal reaction to an insane murderer - and even in TRF there are moments when they still seem fascinated by one another.

 

There seems to be something in Sherlock that is drawn to darkness. Would he ever have got so close to John if it had not been for the shooting of the cabbie? He sees a dark side in John, a love of danger and violence, even if John doesn't see it in himself. Maybe it was not John who subconsciously chose Mary because she is dangerous but Sherlock.

 

I don't think we can base an assessment of a person's character on Sherlock's opinion. Most of us wouldn't consider the Camden Garrotter to be the best man they ever knew, regardless of his charity work.

[T.o.b.y]

I don't think we can base an assessment of a person's character on Sherlock's opinion. Most of us wouldn't consider the Camden Garrotter to be the best man they ever knew, regardless of his charity work.

 

probably not...

 

What you say makes a lot of sense. Sherlock is drawn to darkness, in his work ("a nice murder") and in people. The only villain I think he genuinely didn't like seems to be Magnussen (small wonder). Even sweet little Molly works with corpses and dates criminal masterminds. So maybe his little speech to John about why he chose Mary is mostly a lot of projection...

 

 

[by the sea]

Just reading these posts and thinking about why I like Mary so much.  I think of her as a better socialized, female version of Sherlock on some level.  Obviously they've arrived at their current places in different ways but their instant acceptance of each other and her humorous reaction to his complete misunderstanding of John's anger at his sudden reappearance in TEH shows a kind of psychological similarity they both see right away.  They "get" each other and for somebody as socially out of step as Sherlock, that has to be some kind of relief ... an "Oh good ... it's Mary" sort of thing.

 

Debbie

[throwAway_12345678]

This psychological similarity is probably why John chose her (as mentioned in the story). What John saw from her behavior gave him an ideology of her psychology but unconsciously he got the same vibes from her as he had got from Sherlock which he always enjoyed.   

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

His being "drawn to darkness" is probably what makes him such a crackerjack "Consulting Detective" and CS Investigator. He can think like a criminal....get inside their heads because it wouldn't have taken much of a push for him to be one of them. Even Watson in canon makes that observation....as did Holmes and Sherlock themselves.

 

  That is probably why he can say: "I may be on the side of the angels but don't think for a moment that I am one of them.

 

  He knows where the darkness lies in himself and has accepted it which would, I would think, makes it easy for him to accept it in others. At least he's not hypocritical about it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm pondering.  Is Sherlock "drawn to darkness" or is it more like he's drawn to situations and people that constitute an interesting puzzle for him to solve?  If he were drawn to darkness per se, then he would have loved Magnussen.  But he can't "read" Irene, which intrigues him, and he gets all sorts of conflicting messages from Mary.  And of course Moriarty intentionally sets up puzzles for him.

 

Come to think of it, the real question may be why is he so fond of John?

 

[Pamela]

In the beginning, I think it was because he didn't say "piss off."

[Zain]

Good questions.

I'd say Sherlock is attracted to not understanding a person. He is most interested in people when he cannot predict their movements. Like with Jim. But I don't think this means he "likes" them. Or that he empathizes with them. Magnussen was actually more predictable than Irene or Jim. He never tries to outsmart Sherlock. Irene used deception, Jim used riddles to conceal his end game. Sherlock knows from the start what Magnussen is interested in. Power over other people. It is fairly easy to predict a person's movements when you know what their goal is: After all, they have to take a path that leads there. I believe Sherlock had a good grasp of Magnussen's mindset, and that's why he wasn't fascinated by him in the least. Another example is the cabbie. Sherlock was fairly interested in him. But as soon as he found out that the cabbie was predictable because he was merely a puppet on a string, he lost interest in him. He doesn't so much like figuring out a person's mindset. He likes being puzzled by them. Maybe because it's a constant challenge to him.

 

I would like to distance myself from the idea that "Sherlock likes danger/darkness." There's nothing particularly unpredictable about Lestrade, Molly, or Mrs Hudson. They are loyal, they like him, and so on. But they are no puzzle to him. And yet he likes them. They accept him for who he is. And all of those have a good heart. He's surrounded by people that genuinely like him. That are interested in his happiness and health. That's the kind of people he surrounds himself with. Not people like Irene or Jim. (Or Mary)

 

John actually is a bit of a tough case. Sherlock thought at first that John was predictable. But as you mentioned, the cabbie incident is a bit of a curveball. While Sherlock has gained a good grasp of John's character, there's this small part that Sherlock cannot figure out. Probably that part that we often refer to as "John's dark side." To me, it seems like John is between the two categories I mentioned. He is unpredictable to Sherlock, and he is likable to him. And that's why he is fascinated by John.

[T.o.b.y]

Come to think of it, the real question may be why is he so fond of John?

 

I think John was probably the first person he recognized as a friend. Not the first friend he had - Molly, Lestrade and Mrs Hudson were around before John - but the first person whom Sherlock called a friend. And then he realized in hindsight that he had more than one, after all.

 

Who wouldn't be fond of John?

 

It's a good question, though. I guess at first John was simply meant to be a convenience. A person to share the rent and do boring things Sherlock wouldn't want to be bothered with, also maybe a listener when the skull wasn't handy. Then it turned out John wasn't bothered by Sherlock's singular behavior, didn't mind having deductions about his unhappy family history thrown at his head and was actually interested in Sherlock's work. The same, however, applies to the other three people above mentioned.

 

What I like to see as an important moment is when John prevents Sherlock from possibly throwing away his life when he shoots the cabbie in A Study in Pink. I don't the think the crucial point is the killing of the enemy (Sherlock could have done that himself if he really wanted it to happen), but that it's basically John saying hey, stop, you can't do that, your life matters, you know. Which I guess was news to Sherlock, at that time at least.

[sherlockandjohn]

Oh, so much new great stuff to discuss! I have to keep up. But being on holiday can really impose on one's 'Sherlock time'. Sorry, but this is going to be a long post. Feel free to skip it

 

Carol the Dabbler, on 26 Apr 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

I do wish Moftiss hadn't had Mary shoot Sherlock.

 

I am uncertain about my own feelings here. Mary shooting Sherlock in the chest really makes it hard to put up any sound defense for her action. The surgery explanation wasn't believable - but as I've said before, I'm rolling with it because the writers clearly want us to.

On the other hand, if she hadn't done that, we wouldn't have seen Sherlock fighting his way back to life for John in such a dramatic, emotional way. It was beautiful. If, say, Magnussen had somehow grabbed the gun and shot both Mary and Sherlock (which he probably wouldn't have), the effect would still have been dramatic, but it would not have emphasized the bond between Sherlock and John as much. And everything that happens afterwards; John forgiving Mary, and Sherlock defending her, would not have had the same impact either.

From a storyteller's POV, I understand the decision. From a Sherlock fan's POV, I'm prone to somewhat dislike any person who would shoot Sherlock to protect herself. That being said, I'm starting to not mind so much that I don't thoroughly love Mary as a person. She is an interesting character, and that's enough for me. I think

 

As far as plot developments are concerned, I think that Mary shooting Sherlock was very dramatic. I just didn't like the way they wrote John's character after that.

 

Exactly, it was a dramatic choice, and Moffat does love drama! When it comes to John, I am sad that he is unable to give Sherlock the same devotion that Sherlock gives him in this episode. I say 'unable to', because John has made his own vow. He promised to love Mary for better and for worse. I wouldn't want him to abandon his vow, any more than I'd want Sherlock to abandon his, so I'm glad he stays with Mary. I just think it's dysfunctional between them at the moment; she is an unrepentant ex-assasin, and he does not wish to know about the people she is clearly not sad about having killed. It seems that his forgiveness is conditional. Or maybe he just wants her to know that he doesn't care about her past, and all that matters is their future. I think that's what the writers mean, but it could also be interpreted that John is afraid of finding out the truth about Mary.

 

...I'd say Sherlock can't afford to be antagonistic towards Mary, because that could mean losing John's friendship, which is on wobbly legs anyway since the The Fall.

 

I also thought that he accepted her because she seemed to be on his side after the not-so-successful reunion with John. And she made efforts to include him in their lives afterwards. And, yes, because he couldn't afford not to accept her.

 

I too think Sherlock respects Mary, partly because of her quick acceptance of him. She takes an immediately liking to him, and he senses that. I think Sherlock really relishes in people's affection for him; he just claims not to. John was quickly drawn to Sherlock as well, though perhaps for slightly different reasons, and Sherlock clearly liked to hear John's praises.

 

I'm still standing on the position that he learned something that makes him confident that some how she is worth keeping around.

 

He's not easily intimidated, he's not a coward, and I really can't believe that he would leave John in her close company if she was the true threat. He fought his way back from death because his subconscious told him that John was in some real danger.....but it has to be more then just her....or it's a case of "hold your friends close but your enemies closer."  But he felt she was worth killing a man for.....so there is something he and Mycroft knows but we don't.

 

Well observed. Hadn't thought of it, but naturally Sherlock must have looked at the content of that USB pen. He would not take the risk of not knowing something that could endanger John's life.

 

...I'm not at all sure that Sherlock actually believes the "surgery" theory -- mostly I think he wants John to believe it. But he clearly does respect her -- for whatever reason.

 

Oh, that's interesting. Sherlock might not even believe it, and he still tries to reconcile Mary and John. Hmmm. Could be, yes. I wouldn't be too surprised if Sherlock likes Mary despite her risking his life. Irene pretty much risked his life, too. Maybe he likes Mary in the sense that he respects her and feels a kindship to her... but maybe he doesn't fully trust her. He may trust her to take care of John, but I'm not sure he trusts her with his own life.

 

Sherlock's values are very peculiar. He is drawn to Irene - intellectually, physically or both - who exploits and humiliates him much more than he is to Molly, who loves him and would do anything for him...

 

I'm pondering.  Is Sherlock "drawn to darkness" or is it more like he's drawn to situations and people that constitute an interesting puzzle for him to solve?  If he were drawn to darkness per se, then he would have loved Magnussen.  But he can't "read" Irene, which intrigues him, and he gets all sorts of conflicting messages from Mary.  And of course Moriarty intentionally sets up puzzles for him.

 

Come to think of it, the real question may be why is he so fond of John?

 

Yes, Sherlock's values with regard to people are strange, aren't they? As to why he is so fond of John, I may have given my explanation above: Sherlock was quickly drawn to John, because John treated him with more admiration and respect than anyone else. Plus, in a way I think Sherlock sees them as equals. Not in intelligence, of course but overall. Like he says in TSo3: "He has many fine qualities of his own that he has overlooked in his obsession with me."

And over time, of course, they grow closer, risk their lives for each other, save each other.

[Arcadia]

Really enjoying this discussion, hope you'll pardon some ramblings of my own, in no particular order...

 

Whenever I watch ASiP I am reminded of my nephew, who at age 3 or so would toddle up to a new kid in a playground and say, "Do you like me?" Meaning, really, "Will you play with me?" And usually the other kid, nonplussed, would skedaddle away from this intrusive creature. But eventually there would be one who would say, "Sure," and they'd have a great time together. I doubt, at that age, my nephew even understood what "friendship" really was; but he DID know it was more fun to chase a ball with someone else than by himself.

 

That's sort of how I see the start of Sherlock and John's friendship. Sherlock is like my nephew; self-aware enough to know he could enjoy having company, but lacking the social graces to make it happen. Then he meets John, the kid who doesn't run away (or in this case, who doesn't say "piss off.")

 

No, revise that ... Sherlock apparently knows what the social graces are (e.g., he's quite polite to John, and positively warm towards Mrs. Hudson, when they meet at 221B) He just usually refuses to employ them because ... (insert your personality disorder of choice here).

 

The thing about Lestrade, Molly and Mrs. H ... they were friends to Sherlock, but T.o.b.y's right, I don't think he thought of them as such. To me, he reacts to Lestrade & Mrs H. more like parental figures, and Molly ... well, she's a gurrrl, ewww, cooties!!! It's not until S2 that he even sees her as a "real" person. And in S3, he seems to realize that perhaps a girl can also, maybe, be a friend?

 

I don't see that Sherlock is fascinated by John; if anything, it's the other way around, at least at first. I don't know if John's fascinated now so much as just genuinely "fond." Like Sherlockandjohn says, their casual friendship has matured from what it was at first into something deeper. (Insert your own interpretation of "friendship" here.)

 

I think his friends are quite bothered by Sherlock's "singular behavior!" They just ... forgive it? Ignore it? Laugh at it? Except when they call him on it. Whatever, they like him in spite of it.

 

Other great bonding moments between John and Sherlock (as it so often is between people) are when they laugh together. Sometimes I think that's why Sherlock kept going for a laugh in TEH; that's how they entered their friendship in the first place, maybe if they laughed together again they could be friends again. Then again, that would require some introspection on Sherlock's part, so maybe not....

 

(Pause for coughing fit.) I had more but I think my brain just exited thru my ears when I coughed. Damned pollen season.....

[T.o.b.y]

Really enjoying this discussion, hope you'll pardon some ramblings of my own, in no particular order...

 

...

 

No, revise that ... Sherlock apparently knows what the social graces are (e.g., he's quite polite to John, and positively warm towards Mrs. Hudson, when they meet at 221B) He just usually refuses to employ them because ... (insert your personality disorder of choice here).

 

Pardon? Um... I always thought that rambling along was kind of what this forum was for...

 

You are right, Sherlock does know a lot more about socially acceptable behavior than he lets on at first. He can be very polite if there's a clear advantage to be gained from it (like getting information from a client). He can also fake emotion, empathy, even love - look at his short lived "relationship" with Janine! The fact that he clearly does have some idea how to behave must make him all the more aggravating to those close to him, because obviously he just can't be arsed to do so most of the time.

On the other hand, I prefer an honest asshole to a hypocrite. And from a distance at least Sherlock's straight-forward rudeness is very lovable...

[Arcadia]

Well, he's not usually doing it to be mean. (Except when he is, Donovan!) He's just taking the shortest route to his goal, niceties be damned. There is something endearling about that.

[Slithytove]

I don't think that Sherlock's seeming attraction to highly dangerous people, such as Jim, precludes him having friendships with normal people like Lestrade, Mrs Hudson, Molly, etc. He just tends to be ruder to normal people, maybe because he knows they will forgive him or maybe because he has a very low boredom threshold. I agree that one reason why he finds CAM less fascinating is the lack of a puzzle to solve. However, he also seems to have a particular grudge against CAM which isn't fully explained - are we supposed to assume that he classifies himself amongst the "different" people who are preyed on by the likes of CAM?

 

I do think there is something masochistic about Sherlock's attitude towards those who hurt him - Jim, Irene and Mary in particular, though he does seem to like Janine better when she gets back at him with her kiss-and-tell stories - compared to his rather arrogant dominance over people like Molly and Lestrade, who defer to him. However, I realise that this will not be a popular interpretation. It isn't a quality present in ACD's Holmes but my personal opinion is that Sherlock has a strange reaction to people who do him harm.

 

John is, I think, a character of dark and light, much more so than the original Watson. The writers seemed wedded to this idea from the very beginning, as it starts to be suggested right back to ASiP. Maybe Sherlock finds in John the perfect balance of normality and danger, and that's why he likes him so much.

 

There are, of course, many ways to interpret the characters, not only because we all see them a little differently but also because consistency isn't a hallmark of this show. One glaring example is Sherlock's acceptance of coincidence in THoB and his rejection of it in TSoT. (Make your mind up, Sherlock!). I think we are probably trying to make sense of personality traits which the writers haven't really worked out themselves.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

  Is Sherlock "drawn to darkness" or is it more like he's drawn to situations and people that constitute an interesting puzzle for him to solve?  If he were drawn to darkness per se, then he would have loved Magnussen.

 

  Maybe I'm not clear on my own meaning....but he does have a dark side....and he knows it. He doesn't try to deny it, run from it, or even hide it. But he tries his darnedest not to give it to it.  Like he tells John in "HLV" :Your best friend solves crimes so that he doesn't use drugs. Hello...that's me.

 

 John was created to be Sherlock Holmes's moral compass. The one person who kept him right.  Watson came into Holmes's life when he was still fairly young, 27, a man who was a world class chemist and studied poisons. Who planned the murders of his friends and colleagues for mental exercise.

 

 In "Sherlock"  G. Lestrade has taken a vested interest in Sherlock Holmes....sort of a father figure....but he can't be looking out for the loose canon twenty four/ seven. John H. Watson can and does  and maybe this is why Sherlock comes to value John so much. He is the one person in his life is not just empty words but takes an active part on Sherlock's behalf.

 

Behavioral Scientists say that children do want boundaries. They don't want their parents to try to be their best friends. Sherlock was treated as "the idiot child" by Mycoft and Mummy and Daddy Holmes doesn't seem to have been any better at understanding their black sheep genius. John yells at him, storms out when angry....but will come running when he thinks Sherlock has been injured and will do everything in his power to protect Sherlock.

 

  Even though this didn't happen until Sherlock's early to mid thirties, as one meta writer said....emotionally Sherlock is like a toddler.....John....like Watson the Elder, came in Sherlock's life when he needed someone like that the most. The person who would keep Holmes the Elder and Sherlock from becoming a master mind criminal instead of the father of Forensic Science.

[by the sea]

I like the idea of the inclusion of Sherlock's parents ... particularly as they're played by Mr. C's real-life parents ... does anybody notice a family resemblance ?  I'm not really seeing it !   Anyway, just imagine what it must have been like to have Mycroft and Sherlock as toddlers running round the yard !  Wowsers .  It seems Mrs. Holmes is her generation's family brain.  Mary comments to Mr. Holmes that he is the "sane" one.  They clearly have done something right, because, despite protestations, they all show up together for Christmas ... the boys smoking out on the walkway as if they were naughty teenagers.  It's an interesting little change of pace.   

 

Debbie

[Carol the Dabbler]

... That's sort of how I see the start of Sherlock and John's friendship. Sherlock is like my nephew; self-aware enough to know he could enjoy having company, but lacking the social graces to make it happen. Then he meets John, the kid who doesn't run away (or in this case, who doesn't say "piss off.")

 

No, revise that ... Sherlock apparently knows what the social graces are (e.g., he's quite polite to John, and positively warm towards Mrs. Hudson, when they meet at 221B) He just usually refuses to employ them because ... (insert your personality disorder of choice here)....

I like your analogy between Sherlock and your nephew. That really sounds like our dear Mr. Holmes circa "Study in Pink" -- not quite a puppy with muddy feet, but close.

 

As for why he rarely "behaves" even though he apparently has a general idea of how -- I don't think that's necessarily due to a "personality disorder" (which the professionals seem all too eager to diagnose these days). Maybe he's just too lazy and/or doesn't see the point. After all, John and Mrs. Hudson will be nice to him (and generally give him what he wants) anyhow, so why bother?

 

 

Well, he's not usually doing it to be mean. (Except when he is, Donovan!) He's just taking the shortest route to his goal, niceties be damned. There is something endearing about that.

Yeah, something like that!

 

 

There are, of course, many ways to interpret the characters, not only because we all see them a little differently but also because consistency isn't a hallmark of this show. One glaring example is Sherlock's acceptance of coincidence in THoB and his rejection of it in TSoT. (Make your mind up, Sherlock!). I think we are probably trying to make sense of personality traits which the writers haven't really worked out themselves.

Consistency wasn't a hallmark of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, either -- so Moftiss are merely hewing to canon!

 

As for Sherlock's seeming inconsistencies, some of them may simply be due to differing situations. If the acceptance you're talking about in THoB is his apparent willingness to believe (despite apparent lack of evidence) that the leaky pipes were giving off the H.O.U.N.D. drug, I take that to be a fairly transparent face-saving maneuver. (Oddly enough, he was apparently right. It would have been a much more satisfactory ending, in my opinion, if he had reminded John that the first time they saw Frankland, he was coming out of the leaky-pipe room wearing a gas mask.)

 

 

I like the idea of the inclusion of Sherlock's parents ... particularly as they're played by Mr. C's real-life parents ... does anybody notice a family resemblance ?  I'm not really seeing it !  

Well, I don't see any major dissimilarity. But to be honest, I think Mycroft resembles his parents somewhat more than Sherlock does!

 

I wonder whether Benedict Cumberbatch would more obviously resemble his parents without the "Sherlock" hair dye? (Now trying to recall what color Mum and Dad Holmes's hair was....)

[T.o.b.y]

I don't think that Sherlock's seeming attraction to highly dangerous people, such as Jim, precludes him having friendships with normal people like Lestrade, Mrs Hudson, Molly, etc. He just tends to be ruder to normal people, maybe because he knows they will forgive him or maybe because he has a very low boredom threshold. I agree that one reason why he finds CAM less fascinating is the lack of a puzzle to solve. However, he also seems to have a particular grudge against CAM which isn't fully explained - are we supposed to assume that he classifies himself amongst the "different" people who are preyed on by the likes of CAM?

 

I do think there is something masochistic about Sherlock's attitude towards those who hurt him - Jim, Irene and Mary in particular, though he does seem to like Janine better when she gets back at him with her kiss-and-tell stories - compared to his rather arrogant dominance over people like Molly and Lestrade, who defer to him. However, I realise that this will not be a popular interpretation. It isn't a quality present in ACD's Holmes but my personal opinion is that Sherlock has a strange reaction to people who do him harm.

 

Oh my, so many interesting thoughts here.

 

Multiquote and I are on bad terms, so bear with me while I add my two cents worth (or less...) all in one lump:

 

- Are Mrs Hudson, Lestrade and Molly really "normal"? As Sherlock remarks to John, even the landlady used to run a cartel... Molly is a bit of a sociopath herself (at least she's socially awkward), she dated Jim Moriarty (albeit unwittingly), has a long-standing crush on Sherlock Holmes and she works with dead bodies (which I consider perfectly normal, but I know a lot of people don't. And remember how she says sweetly about the corpse Sherlock beats with the riding crop in A Study in Pink "I knew him - he was nice"?). Lestrade seems to have a perfectly decent personality, but he's still a DI; he deals with murder and mayhem on a daily basis and I am sure also sees London for the "battlefield" it really is in Sherlock's eyes.

 

- Why did Sherlock hate Magnussen so? Yes, I think he objects to the fact that he's a bully who preys on people who are "different". Of course Sherlock knows he himself is "different", and all his friends are too. Also, Sherlock probably has a long history of being bullied as a kid, by Mycroft and others. And it is true that Magnussen isn't even particularly interesting. He's simply disgusting.

 

- You have a point there about Sherlock responding in a curious way to people who harm him. He doesn't seem to hold a grudge. If anything, he respects them for it. And in Mary's case, he seems to like her not one bit less after she nearly killed him. I don't know whether I think that's masochistic or simply the working of a mind that dreads boredom more than anything else and is happy with whatever keeps that at bay. As for Sherlock picking on weaker people, well, if I'd had Mycroft towering over me all my life, I'd probably take it out on smaller fish as well.

 

You said somewhere else that there's a lack of consistency in the characterization of our favorite character. You're probably right, but luckily it's not half as bad as in the original, and so far, I can still find "in universe" explanations for everything and continue to "believe in Sherlock Holmes".

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