Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[T.o.b.y]

 

In the process of deleting parts of quotes, I seem to have deleted one part that I wanted to comment on.  Someone said (and it's been said here before as well) that in the airport scene, John should have gotten on the plane with Sherlock.  But couldn't that be construed as horribly ungrateful?  I mean, Sherlock has sacrificed his home and presumably his life so that Mary and John will be safe together.  If John had decided to go with him, mightn't that be seen as throwing Sherlock's precious gift back in his face?

 

Yes, and besides, Sherlock is not an "equal" friend of John's. He is a sort of "commanding officer", too - John respects him and he thinks Sherlock has a plan and knows what he's doing and I don't think it would have occurred to him that Sherlock would want him to do something like that (I don't think he would, by the way). In John's shoes, I think I'd have done just what John did - stand there shell-shocked and wonder what on earth to say.

 

 

 I too wonder if Sherlock's lost a little faith in himself.

 

At least he doesn't seem quite sure anymore of what / who he is and wants to be. This is one of the most interesting themes of series 3: Being Sherlock Holmes - what's that supposed to mean? I love that angle and I fervently hope they'll expand on it.

[Arcadia]

....

Love all your comments but in the interests of having a life will satisfy myself with "liking" them ... except I MUST add a remark to just this one....

 

Or how about E.T.? Not Disney, but certainly Disney-esque -- and the worst chain-yanking I ever got in a movie theater.

OMG YES! That movie was shameless! And I fell for it.

 

Oh, and one more...

Someone said (and it's been said here before as well) that in the airport scene, John should have gotten on the plane with Sherlock. But couldn't that be construed as horribly ungrateful? I mean, Sherlock has sacrificed his home and presumably his life so that Mary and John will be safe together. If John had decided to go with him, mightn't that be seen as throwing Sherlock's precious gift back in his face?

Yup, just might.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

And would John have even be allowed?  Mycroft was there and probably one or two of his....eerrrr...body guards in the car if not on the plane it's self. John could have been detained from getting on if he had tried.

[Slithytove]

I didn't expect John to get on the plane but, given that Sherlock has told him they'll never meet again, I would have appreciated a tiny bit of the type of angst he felt post-TRF to surface. I know John is supposed to be emotionally constipated but, for God's sake, this is your best friend leaving forever! You can't manage anything, not even a manly hug?

 

I wonder if, subconsciously, Sherlock realises that the balance between them has shifted. In TSoT, he rejects Mycroft's hectoring voice, in his imagination, in favour of John, claiming "You keep me right.". However, when he is in extremis, it isn't John who keeps him right. When he has three seconds of consciousness left, who shows up in his Mind Palace to help him stay alive? Mycroft, Molly, Anderson, Jim Moriarty and a dog. No John.

 

"I see but I do not observe" could be my motto, so I didn't notice, until it was pointed out, that the corridor Sherlock runs down when struggling against shock is pretty much the same one that John runs down in ASiP, searching for Sherlock with the intention of saving him. Of course, Sherlock would be looking for John. What he finds is Redbeard.

 

Ultimately, as we know, it is his devotion to John which makes him force himself back to life - an act of loyalty which, in my opinion, weighs strongly against any of the bad things he is accused of inflicting on John - but it is Jim who acts as the face and voice of his anxiety, not John himself. He doesn't imagine John calling him back to life. I wonder if, deep inside, he is no longer so certain that John will be there for him always.

 

It's just a thought.....

[Carol the Dabbler]

That's an interesting observation, that Sherlock may now have some doubts about John's friendship.  Whether his doubts are justified is another matter, and I strongly doubt that they are, certainly not in the long run.  That just wouldn't be Holmes and Watson.

 

Does John really believe that this is the last time he'll see Sherlock?  I agree, he doesn't seem what I would call angsty either, merely somber and resigned.  But then, he has great faith in Sherlock's ability to overcome ridiculous odds.  He's seen the man come back from the dead.  Twice.  He may believe (or at least tell himself) that at the end of Mycroft's "six months," Sherlock will be back at Baker Street, safe and sound.

 

[Arcadia]

I don't know if Sherlock has doubts about John, but I think he has doubts about himself. I'm still thinking about that scoffing "What utility do I have?" comment to Mycroft. And there's other bits in HLV that make me think he might be reassessing himself. I wonder if they'll make anything more of that.

[T.o.b.y]

Does John really believe that this is the last time he'll see Sherlock?  I agree, he doesn't seem what I would call angsty either, merely somber and resigned.  But then, he has great faith in Sherlock's ability to overcome ridiculous odds.  He's seen the man come back from the dead.  Twice.  He may believe (or at least tell himself) that at the end of Mycroft's "six months," Sherlock will be back at Baker Street, safe and sound.

 

Well, I doubt even John would be that naive, because he knows full well Sherlock shot a man in front of a heap of witnesses and the only reason he's not going to prison is that Mycroft has come up with an alternative plan. He says "the game is over", so I guess he's aware that Sherlock isn't supposed to come back, at least not to resume his old life. What I don't think John has any idea of is that it is expected Sherlock will die after no more than six months.

 

He's had some time to get used to this development, though. There's no mystery about it, no "why the heck did this happen?", like with The Fall. So no wonder he's resigned. And of course, with Sherlock (and Mycroft!) you never, ever can be sure, so perhaps he is entertaining some hope that they'll manage to bring Sherlock back, after all, or he's simply not ready to spend emotional energy on what may well be another one of their brilliant little plays.

 

He's still incredibly sad, though. At least that's what I see. The faces Freeman makes look as if the character is trying his best not to cry, which of course would make John even more terse and prickly than usual. I love that scene. In my eyes, it's not cold or unfeeling at all. It's very typical of both men and very touching.

 

[Dragonslayer]

 

 

 

 

He's still incredibly sad, though. At least that's what I see. The faces Freeman makes look as if the character is trying his best not to cry, which of course would make John even more terse and prickly than usual. I love that scene. In my eyes, it's not cold or unfeeling at all. It's very typical of both men and very touching.

 

 

 

 

Just this. If there is a ranking of the emotional scenes in Sherlock, this will come second, just after John's gravestone speech.

He is trying so hard not to breakdown, struggling to say something, anything.

 

Remember he was a soldier, so he isn't used to show emotion like that - weeping. Breaking down. In front of everyone, especially Sherlock.

The fall was the only episode he did that. And that was in private.

 

Astounding performance by Freeman.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 I mean Sherlock (not judging if it was justified or not):

• is tortured while naked in a cold prison somewhere in nowhere
• is hit in the face (multiple times)
• is ignored by his best friend
• has to live alone in 221b upon returning from a very stressful situation (he was being tortured)
• has to jump into a fire
• does not find anybody at his friend's wedding who pays any attention to him and nobody stops him from leaving even though the three people who were named his three weaknesses in TRF were present
• falls out of contact with his best friend
• gets slapped by Molly
• is reprimanded by his brother
• gets shot by Mary and almost dies
• gets his morphine dose lowered
• gets threatened with a gun again
• ends up in hospital again and is only released around Christmas
• is sent to his death

 

Oh dear, when you put it like that... The poor sod, maybe he has suffered enough for The Fall, even though I still think that was the cruelest thing I ever saw a hero do to anybody.

 

Yes, that was very bad of Sherlock... very bad.

 

But whether or not I feel sorry for him has little to do with his actions in TRF and TEH. I hurt with him in TSoT and HLV when he's hurting, because I love him (and there's plenty of reason for me to love him, just like I had plenty of reason to be furious with him in TEH). I just honestly don't think John is such a bad person for not coddling Sherlock through his bad times. That's just not what the two of them do. Sure, Sherlock was spectacular in HLV, and it may feel like John did not appreciate that enough, but his mind was on other things... I don't know if I'd be selfless enough to look beyond my own troubles if I were in his shoes. He's pretty much drowning in HLV (and somewhat in TEH as well) himself.

 

Let's also look at the stuff that points towards John caring about his friendship with Sherlock in HLV:

He insist on Sherlock coming with him to Bart's to check if he has used drugs.

He goes with Sherlock to Magnussen's office.

He's obviously really scared when he finds Sherlock with a bullet in him, and he asks angrily, "who shot him?"

He listens to Sherlock a lot when it comes to Mary. Not everyone would do that. I think it testifies to a very strong bond between the two. I like that piece of communication: "What is she?" "Okay. Your way. Always your way." Sure, John says it bitterly, but he goes along with it, because he trusts Sherlock.

He comes with Sherlock to his parents' home at Christmas. If they weren't so close, would he do that?

He is horrified when Sherlock shoots Magnussen.

 

All the way through HLV I see the undercurrent of a strong and powerful bond between them. Whatever else I have against this episode, I can't deny that.

 

But I'd still like to see more of protective John in s4 And more of Sherlock the sociopath. That's the dynamic I love the most, but I have to admit, it has been great to see a different side to Sherlock.

 

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

 

 

 

He's still incredibly sad, though. At least that's what I see. The faces Freeman makes look as if the character is trying his best not to cry, which of course would make John even more terse and prickly than usual. I love that scene. In my eyes, it's not cold or unfeeling at all. It's very typical of both men and very touching.

 

 

 

 

Just this. If there is a ranking of the emotional scenes in Sherlock, this will come second, just after John's gravestone speech.

He is trying so hard not to breakdown, struggling to say something, anything.

 

Remember he was a soldier, so he isn't used to show emotion like that - weeping. Breaking down. In front of everyone, especially Sherlock.

The fall was the only episode he did that. And that was in private.

 

Astounding performance by Freeman.

 

 

How I agree! Although I must say I cried even more at the airport scene than at John's gravestone speech. And then there's the reunion scene... While I didn't cry at that, it has as much emotional impact on me.

 

[Slithytove]

I agree that Martin is a fine actor but I think the scene is underwritten and doesn't give him the opportunity to do much with it. Far from being a masterpiece of suppressed emotion, it seems cold and unconvincing to me. John isn't a fool. He knows Sherlock is going for good and he must know he is going into danger. He's been a soldier, he must know the risks of working undercover. He must know there is, at least, a strong possibility that Sherlock will die. I don't think their farewell is a moving display of repressed emotion, on John's side, at least. Sherlock seems brimming with unspoken pain but the Watsons.....? No. First, we get Mary saying goodbye as if she is seeing him off for a week at the seaside and then we get a distant and offhand John. This scene ranks second to the Xmas reconciliation scene in my personal ranking of least favourite scenes.

[Arcadia]

I didn't cry, (but I hardly ever do) but I felt like I'd been kicked in the gut. Hard. And I couldn't figure out why. Not sure I ever did. I guess that makes me a sociopath in Moftiss speak?

 

At any rate, whether you like it or hate it, it sure packs a wallop. Here we are still talking about it.

[Dragonslayer]

I don't cry either, and I didn't.
But John's dilemma was pretty clear to me at least. 

The scene was gut-wrenching.
Only the first time though. As I can never take it seriously on re-watches, knowing that Sherlock will be called back in four minutes.

[sherlockandjohn]

There is that part of it, yes :-) Though I confess, while not being a big crier myself (seriously, I don't consider myself as such), I cried the first three times or so that I watched that scene. But there's something about loss and separation that particularly trigger my tears. I only had to hear, "Since this is likely to be the last time I'll speak to John Watson," and I was gone.

 

Dragonslayer; I love your signature, by the way!

[Arcadia]

Oh yeah, the first couple of times I re-watched it, I still felt like I was the one shot in the gut. But since that was like, the next day, I think I was still recovering from the first shock. It is really, really rare for fiction to hit me that hard. And I honestly cannot say for sure what I was reacting to. The whole final ten minutes, I guess. That was a pretty sustained dramatic moment!

 

Actually, if that damned plane hadn't turned around, I think I would've cried.

[Dragonslayer]

 

Dragonslayer; I love your signature, by the way!

Thankyou!

I kind of miss the old Sherlock-Anderson interactions!

[T.o.b.y]

I kind of miss the old Sherlock-Anderson interactions!

 

 

Oh, me too. But I like what they've done with the character now, too.

 

I miss Sally as well. By the way, wouldn't she be proud of herself if she knew her prediction was right:

 

"One day, we'll be standing around a body and it will be Sherlock Holmes who put it there."

 

[sherlockandjohn]

I'm sure she would! But never in a million years would she have guessed the reason. Hm, that does make me wonder how the two of them would interact now... Would Sherlock still be his old self, cutting remarks and everything, or would he ignore her, or attempt to get along? I'd love to see it either way.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

Actually, if that damned plane hadn't turned around, I think I would've cried.

 

If the plane hadn't turned around, I'd still feel it like a punch in the gut. And I probably wouldn't be able to watch HLV at all. No, they had to do that. I mean, we had only just got Sherlock back.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... that does make me wonder how the two of them would interact now... Would Sherlock still be his old self, cutting remarks and everything, or would he ignore her, or attempt to get along? I'd love to see it either way.

 

I'm assuming that Vinette Robinson was otherwise committed -- note that the only other continuing character in any of Sally's scenes was Lestrade, meaning that they could pretty easily work around Robinson's schedule.  If Sally's back for Series 4, I'd love to see how she interacts with Sherlock now -- or with her old pal Anderson, for that matter!

 

I dearly wish they had used a scene from a reunion fanfic (NOTE: "Mature" content) Given in Evidence by verityburns.  Sally's first confrontation with the newly-returned Sherlock is utterly hilarious.  (Actually, the entire story is really good -- intriguing character development, good situational humor, sneaky canon references, and some well-integrated casework.  Even though I'm not a Johnlock shipper, this is one of my favorites.)

[T.o.b.y]

 

... that does make me wonder how the two of them would interact now... Would Sherlock still be his old self, cutting remarks and everything, or would he ignore her, or attempt to get along? I'd love to see it either way.

 

I'm assuming that Vinette Robinson was otherwise committed -- note that the only other continuing character in any of Sally's scenes was Lestrade, meaning that they could pretty easily work around Robinson's schedule.  If Sally's back for Series 4, I'd love to see how she interacts with Sherlock now -- or with her old pal Anderson, for that matter!

 

That would be good, yeah! I've been wondering what Sally thinks about the change in Anderson and whether they ever speak now. As for Sherlock, I got the impression that her attitude towards him hasn't changed much.

 

 

[Slithytove]

I like the way they've changed Anderson, showing he has a heart and a conscience, particularly when you consider how rude Sherlock always was towards him. I also like the way they caught out the fandom who, judging by the fanfic, expected Sally to be the one who felt remorse over Sherlock's "suicide."

 

Sally is a strong character and adds to the drama, and I hope she is in S4, but I really don't like her. I realise that some of her antipathy towards Sherlock might be due to her feeling that he has Lestrade at his beck and call, but anyone who constantly calls someone "freak", behind his back but also to his face, is pretty nasty. Time for some re-training, maybe?

[Zain]

 

... that does make me wonder how the two of them would interact now... Would Sherlock still be his old self, cutting remarks and everything, or would he ignore her, or attempt to get along? I'd love to see it either way.

 

I'm assuming that Vinette Robinson was otherwise committed -- note that the only other continuing character in any of Sally's scenes was Lestrade, meaning that they could pretty easily work around Robinson's schedule.  If Sally's back for Series 4, I'd love to see how she interacts with Sherlock now -- or with her old pal Anderson, for that matter!

 

I dearly wish they had used a scene from a reunion fanfic (NOTE: "Mature" content) Given in Evidence by verityburns.  Sally's first confrontation with the newly-returned Sherlock is utterly hilarious.  (Actually, the entire story is really good -- intriguing character development, good situational humor, sneaky canon references, and some well-integrated casework.  Even though I'm not a Johnlock shipper, this is one of my favorites.)

 

 

Given in Evidence is brilliant. Yes, I really would have loved such a scene. verityburns is a great author.

 

But I wonder if it really would be a good idea to have her return and be nice to Sherlock. Or semi-nice, what, with Anderson being somewhat...different. I believe some kind of opposition is necessary. Otherwise things just run too smoothly.

 

But I'd love to know why Sherlock calls Sally "Sally" when Anderson is Anderson, and Lestrade is Lestrade.

There's a great story highlighting their (possible) past, Six Underground by dietplainlite. I would love it if there was a sort of flashback teaser giving us a glimpse of their past. Their first meeting, perhaps, when Lestrade let Sherlock onto a crime scene.

[T.o.b.y]

 

But I'd love to know why Sherlock calls Sally "Sally" when Anderson is Anderson, and Lestrade is Lestrade.

 

Sherlock goes back and forth between first and last names. He speaks of Sally as "Sargeant Donovan" when talking to Anderson, but calls her "Sally" when he addresses her. Likewise, he calls Anderson "Phillip" in The Empty Hearse. By the way, the fact that Sherlock knows Anderson's first name perfectly well means that my headcanon dictates he is also fully aware of Lestrade's, especially since he's been in possession of his ID card, and only pretends to get it wrong all the time as one of the things he considers a good joke.

 

Another factor my be that she's a she. For some reason, it feels a bit odd to mention a woman by her last name only. I noticed that during the US primaries a while back: Everybody spoke of Obama as simply Obama, but it was always Hilary Clinton. Likewise, over here, it's never just "Merkel" but Angela Merkel.

 

 

[Zain]

Yes, of course you are right.

I should have specified that I meant in s1. Sally is the only person from the yard that he addresses by given name then.

I do not know about trends in the English language that much but in Germany, we are perfectly fine using only the last name for women, too. It's actually stranger to use a given name, it somehow seems like the speaker needs to make clear who they are talking about. We are more rude, I suppose... so that's why I picked up on it. It is quite common to simply say "Merkel said" when that person is not present and one is not close to that person.