Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[by the sea]

 

 

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 Anyway, I'm now revisiting my brief fantasy that it was John who faked the Moriarty gif in order to rescue Sherlock from exile. That could be the secret he's keeping! John as the Big Bad in S4! Awesome!

 

 

 

AHA !   The teddy bear in the garden becomes the grizzly in the woods !  I LIKE it !   But I hark back to something said long ago and far away ... would Moftiss want to dispense with John's innate chivalry ?  Can this knight in shining armour become villainous without messing up the story ?  I suppose if anybody can come up with such an interesting plot twist, it would be those two !  

 

Debbie

[Dragonslayer]

Now that's something to look out for in s4!

[Arcadia]

No, he's just pretending to be Moriarty! He leads everyone on a merry chase around ... well, Baker Street, at the very least, until Sherlock figures it out. Which would be about 3 minutes into the show, leaving plenty of time for other stories that DON'T involve resurrecting dead people.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Oh yeah,  I don't believe John would ever stoop to becoming some kind of criminal master mind for real...but he might cook up something along those lines to save Sherlock.

[T.o.b.y]

*Sigh*... I wish there were zero minutes spent on resurrecting dead people in the future, but no such luck, I am afraid.

 

I am getting more and more used to the idea of Moriarty being alive, though. It could have some advantages. I feel hopes building up that we'll finally learn more about The Fall through him and get some other mysteries from series 2 sorted out. Naive of me, I guess. I should know better by this time.

[Arcadia]

Naivete has its charms as well.

[Zain]

Oh yeah,  I don't believe John would ever stoop to becoming some kind of criminal master mind for real...but he might cook up something along those lines to save Sherlock.

 

Or he did have a look at the thumbdrive. And it's part of his ingenious master plan to set up Mary. Who now believes her former employer is back.

 

Okay. Wishful thinking taking over...

[Caya]

Much as I'd love for Mary to receive her comeuppance (if by John's hands, even better) imagining John as being able to do something so devious rings very, very wrong to me. John is supposed to be the moral one, more or less *sigh*.

[T.o.b.y]

It sounds out of character for me too... John might not exactly be an angel of light, but I don't think he'd come up with a complicated, back-handed plan like that. He seems to have a more straight-forward approach to problems (when he does anything at all about them except stare at Sherlock and go "what do we do now? Do we have a plan?" )

 

I do wonder whether we won't maybe find out that Mary had some kind of connection with Moriarty once. As a "freelance" assassin, she might well have been employed by him at some time or other, either directly or indirectly. That would not necessarily make her a villain, though. There are numerous possibilities for such a backstory, some of which I quite like. Well, we shall see...

[Dragonslayer]

 

I do wonder whether we won't maybe find out that Mary had some kind of connection with Moriarty once. As a "freelance" assassin, she might well have been employed by him at some time or other, either directly or indirectly. That would not necessarily make her a villain, though. There are numerous possibilities for such a backstory, some of which I quite like. Well, we shall see...

 

I think that is a serious possibility. I can almost see it happening at some point.

Since we know Mary dies at some point in the book, I think we can assume she's gonna die at some point in the series too. And if they do, I don't think they'll be giving her a natural death.

So what I can see happening is Moriarty pursuing or targeting Mary for some reason, in which she perhaps dies ultimately.

 

Though I hope if she dies, she remains dead.

[by the sea]

 imagining John as being able to do something so devious rings very, very wrong to me. John is supposed to be the moral one, more or less *sigh*.

 

Absolutely ... and John's reactions to many situations seem to be instant and physical ... "I'm a doctor, I know how to sprain people".  He hasn't indicated any inclination towards plotting future actions on his own. 

 

I am curious, though, as to how they could make Moriarty "survive" his suicide.  I suppose the evil twin idea works and  I still like the idea of Mr. Holmes being some kind of criminal mastermind.  But ...  I think I'll just wait and be surprised.  

 

Debbie

[T.o.b.y]

I think that is a serious possibility. I can almost see it happening at some point.

Since we know Mary dies at some point in the book, I think we can assume she's gonna die at some point in the series too. And if they do, I don't think they'll be giving her a natural death.

So what I can see happening is Moriarty pursuing or targeting Mary for some reason, in which she perhaps dies ultimately.

 

Though I hope if she dies, she remains dead.

 

Yes, no more fake deaths, please...

 

I know I keep saying this over and over again, but I really don't see how they could make Mary dieing work on a dramatic level. We've had John grieving over the loss of someone close to him. It would be hard to repeat that in a way that felt right. Besides, poor John. Once was enough, I'd say. I'd be as pleased as anybody to see him back at Baker St, but I think the show works pretty well the way it is now, too, and besides, relationships can end in many different ways and being widowed isn't nearly as common these days as it was in Doyle's time.

 

It's not entirely clear whether Mrs Watson died in the original, but it is very likely and I have always supposed so.

 

If they do decide to go there, I hope they'll show a bit of how Sherlock deals with the situation. He does try to be a good friend in series 3, so I suppose he would make some attempt at finding out what he's "supposed to do" in such a case and I am sure it would be both funny and touching to watch, both very wrong and somehow very right at the same time.

 

 

[Zain]

 

 

I know I keep saying this over and over again, but I really don't see how they could make Mary dieing work on a dramatic level. We've had John grieving over the loss of someone close to him. It would be hard to repeat that in a way that felt right. Besides, poor John. Once was enough, I'd say. I'd be as pleased as anybody to see him back at Baker St, but I think the show works pretty well the way it is now, too, and besides, relationships can end in many different ways and being widowed isn't nearly as common these days as it was in Doyle's time.

 

 

 

To pick this up:

 

I can think of one solution which circumvents repetition.

Have John kill Mary. Completely disregarding how unlikely it is, and what kind of circumstances would lead to it, here you go. Mary dead, John does not grieve her but he may regret the decision to shoot her even if he knows it was the right decision to do it. The stress is on the moral decision, not on the grieving which circumvents repetition on a dramatic level.

 

I don't say it is a good option (and definitely, definitely not a likely one). But it certainly would work on a dramatic level.

[Redbeard]

Zain, I would LOVE to see that happen!  (No, I don't seeing them doing this either but Dang that would be awesome.  All the moreso if he had to do it to save Sherlock.) 

[Zain]

Well, thx. Funnily, I am not sure if I myself would like to see it.

 

As a writer, it somehow makes a lot of themes form s3 come full circle from. Mary shooting Sherlock (who connects her with John), Sherlock shooting Magnussen (who connects him with Mary), and John shooting Mary (connecting him with Sherlock), to name one example. That's why it came easy to me to propose it. 

 

But despite (or maybe because of) my own dislike of Mary: It would not really please me. I want her out of the show but not like that. Murder is never a solution. And I wouldn't want her to further strain John and Sherlock's friendship. If John was caught up in guilt, Sherlock certainly is the last person who would react appropriately. This would be another setback.

I want the next season to show me once again this great friendship that I fell in love with in the first two seasons.

The kind of friendship where John jumps from one roof to another just because Sherlock did it.

The kind of friendship that made John lie to Sherlock to protect him.

The kind of friendship that made Sherlock fall silent mid-deduction so that he would not incriminate John.

The kind of friendship where Sherlock names John first, before Mrs Hudson and Lestrade.

The kind of friendship where John agrees with Sherlock that it is better "me and you, or nothing" when Sherlock points the gun at the bomb.

 

In s3, there might have been a lot of words but I missed mutual gestures. I missed this mutual "me and you, or nothing" part. I have a hard time picturing any development that will bring back this deep, first-priority-to-both-of-us friendship. The ball is in John's court, but he needs to notice that. 

 

John shooting Mary... certainly doesn't help with that. I have my hope on Victor Trevor as an intermediary. I am not very optimistic, though.

 

[Redbeard]

I agree with everything you say - we want the same thing.  In my mind the scenario plays out in such a way that John shooting Mary does bring back the deep bond of friendship between John and Sherlock.  As in Mary has a gun on Sherlock and is about to kill him, and John realizes he has been manipulated by her, and even though he loves her, his loyalty to Sherlock wins.  No further angst required.  The shooting solidifies their friendship in my version.  However, this is just a scenario that I think would be awesome, not one that I would expect to actually see in a million years.  I don't think the writers would think that was awesome lol. 

 

I am not familiar with the character of Victor Trevor, but whatever or whoever can bring about John's needing to sacrifice something for Sherlock, John WANTING it to be him and Sherlock again, etc etc. would be all right in my book.   In fact, my preferred version would be Mary going off into a witness protection program and John choosing to stay with Sherlock...right up until you mentioned the shooting.  Now I likey that.   

[Dragonslayer]

I myself thought that the Sherlock-John bromance was taken to a new level in s3.

S1 and 2 for me remain the seasons with the best cases. While s3 was a more sentimental one.

And most certainly by Tso3.

[Dragonslayer]

Also, I think Mary's death is mentioned quite clearly in ACD. Just not the cause of it.

[Arcadia]

Huh? John shooting the mother of his child? What, then lie to the kid the rest of his life? Or better still, tell him/her the truth? THAT should turn out well. Or maybe he shoots Mary while she's still pregnant, that would be really noble.

 

I know y'all are jus' havin' a li'l fun here ... but c'mon, don't we deserve something more orginal than stories about shooting people? Sooooo boring! How about we see our heroes thinking their way out of problems instead? That seems more Sherlockian to me.

 

Okay, sorry, now MY rant is over.  Ahh, feel better......

[Dragonslayer]

Huh? John shooting the mother of his child? What, then lie to the kid the rest of his life? Or better still, tell him/her the truth? THAT should turn out well. Or maybe he shoots Mary while she's still pregnant, that would be really noble.

 

I know y'all are jus' havin' a li'l fun here ... but c'mon, don't we deserve something more orginal than stories about shooting people? Sooooo boring! How about we see our heroes thinking their way out of problems instead? That seems more Sherlockian to me.

 

Okay, sorry, now MY rant is over. Ahh, feel better......

Lol. I feel the same.

Though I must say three (supposedly) fake deaths feels more Bond to me.

[Arcadia]

I keep thinking it's more like Disney. I never will forget how cheated I felt when it turned out Trusty the Hound Dog was still alive at the end of Lady and the Tramp! I went thru that grieving for nothing?

[Caya]

I agree with everything you say - we want the same thing.  In my mind the scenario plays out in such a way that John shooting Mary does bring back the deep bond of friendship between John and Sherlock.  As in Mary has a gun on Sherlock and is about to kill him, and John realizes he has been manipulated by her, and even though he loves her, his loyalty to Sherlock wins.  No further angst required.  The shooting solidifies their friendship in my version. 

 

Huh? John shooting the mother of his child? What, then lie to the kid the rest of his life? Or better still, tell him/her the truth? THAT should turn out well. Or maybe he shoots Mary while she's still pregnant, that would be really noble.

 

In such a scenario as Redbeard describes (either John kills Mary, or Mary kills Sherlock - and yeah, I do agree that this show's seen too much shooting of late, but roll with me there for a moment, please ) - yes, I'd root for John shooting Mary as well instead of, dunno, Sherlock getting not-quite-killed, again or whatever. Because, as Redbeard says, it would reaffirm the deep bond between them.

 

Mary and John and their oh-so-unusual relationship may be nice for some, but that's not what I started watching Sherlock for (and if I ever got the hankering for such a premise, I bet there are dozens of rom-coms out there to satisfy it). Shows about a friendship like Sherlock's and John's (used to be) are very rare, and it's the heart and soul of Sherlock for me. I don't care about Mary's backstory or her marriage or kid or whatever. What I want to see in S4 is You and me against the world again. A couple of nice cases wouldn't go amiss either .

[sherlockandjohn]

I hope Mary isn't entirely "off the hook" yet. She shows no remorse (about having been an assasin). Sherlock's sacrifice was extraordinary, but it only really works for me if Mary realises that she doesn't deserve it.

 

What has been bothering me all this time about His Last Vow is
1) Sherlock and Mary tell John that he chose her because he likes danger and dangerous people. Yes, John likes danger, but he's not attracted to dangerous persons. Look at Moriarty and Irene. He likes an element of danger in his life, but he's appaled by vicious behavior in people. Mary's past does not appeal to him, so it feels wrong to me to have Mary say, "Don't worry; I'll keep him in trouble." But I'm willing to believe that her kind of "trouble" nowadays is of a of a more good-natured sort. I would hate to think that John would be fine with her taking up arms again. Sherlock might not mind; him being who he is, but that's not the John I know.

2) It has felt like Mary comes between John and Sherlock, by being married to John and risking Sherlock's life, and John forgives her for it. But I'm rethinking my position on that. Sherlock forgives her long before John does, and tries to mend the gap between the two. John may not want his help at first, but eventually he is grateful for it, as we see in the Christmas scene ("That's the thing with Sherlock; it's always the unexpted," he says fondly). I guess my issue has been that I didn't forgive Mary, so to see Sherlock's acceptance and John's forgiveness was like eating dirt. Completely unnatural. Mary is in some ways cold and in other ways a warm person. She has both sides. I'm sure Sherlock, with this logic and sometimes cold reasoning, appreciates both sides. John appreciates the warm person, but I don't think he likes the cold side to her, anymore than he ever did when it comes to Sherlock. He may value Sherlock's reasoning in some aspects, but certainly not all the time. Even Sherlock himself knows that it doesn't always hold up. ("John, I am a ridiculous man, redeemed only by the warmth and constancy of your friendship.")

 

Basically, I would like to see evidence that Mary really cares for Sherlock, as I'm not entirely sure at this point. Maybe I'm just being silly, though. She did, after all, show remorse (about shooting Sherlock), and she phoned the ambulance. I don't really believe she would have shot Sherlock when she met with him at Leinster Gardens. Part of her coldness seems to be a facade that comes down when she is faced with John, who now knows that she shot Sherlock, but still doesn't know that she used to be an assasin. And that's another thing: John is not just angry with Mary for her past or for lying to him. At this point, he doesn't know the extent of that. He only learns as much later that night in Baker Street. At first, his anger is about her shooting Sherlock, and about seeing that she has deceived him about her identity.

 

At least, this is how I'm looking at it now. If Mary comes between the two men, it is more likely because
1) John is married, and his marriage comes first. I'm not saying I like that, but it's not Mary's fault. It's the writers' I hold out hope that Mary will have less of a role in the next episode than she did in HLV.

2) John has issues with Sherlock, and an inner conflict with himself. He doesn't like being bossed around ("I'll text you if I'm available"), and he's not happy with being told that he needs an adrenaline fix every now and then. And now he has another place to go to (Mary), if he gets tired of Sherlock's behavior.
 

I hope the two men manages to work on their issues, and if not, well, they've always accepted the other as they are, so I think they'll be fine.

 

I do wish that Mary will be out of the show again at some point. I feel, like some others have said, that the show should be about Sherlock and John. Not Sherlock, John, and Mary. But, alas, I may have to accept that she could be here to stay. If so, maybe ending the show with series 4 wouldn't be such a bad idea.

 

Added: But I dare hope she isn't there to stay, and that the show continues for years to come

[Redbeard]

 I have my hope on Victor Trevor as an intermediary.

 

I became curious about this Victor Trevor character so I googled and Wikipediad.  Wow so many images of Victor Trevor are Tom HIddleston, lol.  Has anything been announced about him joining the series?  Or do the fan art people just like him as Victor?  It seems like an interesting an idea to explore.  I would love to see John's jealousy at realizing that he is not Sherlock's first "John Watson" 

 

John needs to appreciate Sherlock more - maybe Victor Trevor will bring that out.  Good thinking Zain!  

[Redbeard]

And forgot to add the whole idea of John realizing he's not the first would tie back to HLV when Mary tells Sherlock he has to realize that neither of them were the first.  I like the parallel there.