Molly Hooper

[Arcadia]

6 hours ago, bronzeblues said:

Wanted to add my two cents on this thread since I am new on board. The sheer fact this thread is the longest out of any other character thread just shows how much are people ready to sympathise with a character like Molly.  I believe one part does because they feel like they need to. People love to cheer for the underdogs. The other part does it since I agree wholeheartedly that Molly is basically a fangirl substitute in the show. All those Sherlock(or BC) fangirls just see themselves in Molly to whom Sherlock is just so far out of reach. The third part is really the one that identifies with Molly because they truly share characteristics with her. That introvert akwardness, shyness. That perhaps overtly familiar feeling of pinning after someone you can't possibly have. As much as I understand all that, characters like that don't really get a lot of my love. I feel like they should. Like I say said, everyone feels like they should cheer for the underdog. But sorry, there's a reason why Molly is not "The Woman". All that being said there's a certain likeable sweetness with which the actress plays Molly and I truly respect that. But that highschool crush on Sherlock is simply... urgh. Molly is supposed to be a grown woman yet she behaves as a smitten 12 year old. 

For the end, Sherlolly fanfiction is also widely OOC, granted, I don't have much experience with it but it just is. 

Hi there, bronzeblues, welcome to the forum! I have to say I think I fit all three of those categories. But as much as I would like for Molly to get the man of her dreams, I don't believe she ever will. Alas.  

[T.o.b.y]

8 hours ago, bronzeblues said:

Wanted to add my two cents on this thread since I am new on board. The sheer fact this thread is the longest out of any other character thread just shows how much are people ready to sympathise with a character like Molly.  I believe one part does because they feel like they need to. People love to cheer for the underdogs. The other part does it since I agree wholeheartedly that Molly is basically a fangirl substitute in the show. All those Sherlock(or BC) fangirls just see themselves in Molly to whom Sherlock is just so far out of reach. The third part is really the one that identifies with Molly because they truly share characteristics with her. That introvert akwardness, shyness. That perhaps overtly familiar feeling of pinning after someone you can't possibly have. As much as I understand all that, characters like that don't really get a lot of my love. I feel like they should. Like I say said, everyone feels like they should cheer for the underdog. But sorry, there's a reason why Molly is not "The Woman". All that being said there's a certain likeable sweetness with which the actress plays Molly and I truly respect that. But that highschool crush on Sherlock is simply... urgh. Molly is supposed to be a grown woman yet she behaves as a smitten 12 year old. 

For the end, Sherlolly fanfiction is also widely OOC, granted, I don't have much experience with it but it just is. 

Welcome! 

I think one of the great things about fictional people is that you are under no obligation whatsoever to like them, sympathize with them or cheer them on. There is no "should" imo - if you think Molly is pathetic and immature, that's that and you don't have to feel apologetic about it. 

I disagree of course because I love Molly, but that's another story. 

[bedelia1984]

9 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Hi there, bronzeblues, welcome to the forum! I have to say I think I fit all three of those categories. But as much as I would like for Molly to get the man of her dreams, I don't believe she ever will. Alas.  

Welcome to bronzeblues also!

Arcadia, allow me to be the voice of unreason: it's totally happening in season 5, Sherlock and Molly is on.  Hold onto your hats and stripey scarves.

[Arcadia]

Are you sure you're not thinking of Dr. Who?  

All I gotta say is, I wouldn't mind it if I saw it. Although if he ends up hurting her, I'm coming after him. Or Mofftiss, take your pick.   

[bronzeblues]

9 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

Welcome! 

I think one of the great things about fictional people is that you are under no obligation whatsoever to like them, sympathize with them or cheer them on. There is no "should" imo - if you think Molly is pathetic and immature, that's that and you don't have to feel apologetic about it. 

I disagree of course because I love Molly, but that's another story. 

Maybe my comments come off as a little too harsh. I don't dislike her but you could say I don't really love her either. It mostly really is about my preference for completely different types of characters, I always loved those somewhat ambigously moral personas. I was completely mesmerized by the way Lara Pulver interpreted Irene and her chemistry with BC is truly magnificent(one of the reasons why I completely believe  they got it on behind the camera but that's for some other thread) but I could objectively see why some people possibly felt dissapointed with this interpretation. 

Still, I do believe they went far too into the "shy, akward, nice girl next door" type with Molly. I just feel like BC's Sherlock would never spare her a second glance, let alone all that friendzoning with kisses on cheek and "hoping you'll be very happy" stuff. Personally, I would've rather seen more of Anthea because I get major awesomeness vibes from her. Always wondered what her thoughts on Mycroft are. 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Welcome to bronzeblues also!
Arcadia, allow me to be the voice of unreason: it's totally happening in season 5, Sherlock and Molly is on.  Hold onto your hats and stripey scarves.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Dr. Who?  
All I gotta say is, I wouldn't mind it if I saw it. Although if he ends up hurting her, I'm coming after him. Or Mofftiss, take your pick.   

What isn’t being said is that S5 is practically retirementlock where Sherlock finally acts on his love for Molly. He tends to his bees in Sussex taking the odd case with John still. There is a nice roomy cottage large enough for Molly and Sherlock in one room and John in another and the bees out back near the shed where Sherlock still does experiments to improve the lives of bees globally so he can have the best honey possible and he posts all of his findings on his website that he’s been keeping up all these many decades.

[Hikari]

38 minutes ago, SherlockedCAMPer said:

What isn’t being said is that S5 is practically retirementlock where Sherlock finally acts on his love for Molly. He tends to his bees in Sussex taking the odd case with John still. There is a nice roomy cottage large enough for Molly and Sherlock in one room and John in another and the bees out back near the shed where Sherlock still does experiments to improve the lives of bees globally so he can have the best honey possible and he posts all of his findings on his website that he’s been keeping up all these many decades.

Sherlock and Molly AND John all sharing a cottage?  How . .cosy.   But--what about the Second (or Third, depending on your count) Mrs. Watson?  Whoever she is, I think Watson prefers living with her.  Though I suppose a small village such as East Dean could use a doctor.

Sherlolly is as charming an idea as it is implausible.  I think for her own happiness and future sanity (and lots of strapping babies) . .Molly has to give up on the idea of Sherl and turn her sights to someone who is available, adoring, unequivocally heterosexual and Smokin' Hot--our resident Silver Fox, DI Lestrade . . who if there is any justice in the world, and with Molly by his side, can retire from the force with the rank of Detective Superintendent, at least.  Molly loves her work at least as much as she loves Sherl, and I don't think there is much call for forensic pathologists in East Dean.

I love the idea of Sherlolly and Mystrade as outlets for fan creativity but neither is technically plausible.  Sherl would be more likely to take up with Janine, if anybody.  She is, after all, a Sussex neighbor.  But I think he winds up alone, for the rest of a very long life.  That is Canon.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

John would likely be a widow again. If not, he can have a nice cottage nearby.

In all reality, I expect our 2 guys to be old, gray and in some state of singleness (doesn’t rule out a relationship with someone, just not married to anyone) if our version were to continue with more episodes (1-offs or full series).

[bedelia1984]

Definitely not Dr. Who, I'm not a fan, this is Sherlock #earlyretirementlock happening in season five.

 

Sherlockedcamper, I am loving all of your theories/insider information/spoilers. John will produce his own honey which he sells in farmers markets and the jars have a label with a folksy illustration of Rosie in a bonnet on it. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

2 hours ago, Hikari said:

Sherlolly is as charming an idea as it is implausible.  I think for her own happiness and future sanity (and lots of strapping babies) . .Molly has to give up on the idea of Sherl and turn her sights to someone who is available, adoring, unequivocally heterosexual and Smokin' Hot--our resident Silver Fox, DI Lestrade....

That is my ship for sure!

3 hours ago, bronzeblues said:

I don't dislike her but you could say I don't really love her either.

I'm with you there.  I can and do sympathize with Molly, but I have trouble relating to her.  There's a certain twitchiness about her that is very foreign to me. Not saying that she literally twitches, of course, but she reminds me of a frightened rabbit, all wound up and ready to bolt.  Doubt that I would enjoy her company -- she'd make me nervous.

[T.o.b.y]

Now I am reminded of how my driving teacher told me I reminded him of a startled squirrel... 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Nope, that's entirely different. A startled squirrel keeps darting mindlessly in random directions, whereas a scared rabbit does its best to become invisible, just sits there with its big wide eyes until that's clearly not working, and then -- whoosh! -- it really does disappear.

[Hikari]

3 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

There's a certain twitchiness about her that is very foreign to me. Not saying that she literally twitches, of course, but she reminds me of a frightened rabbit, all wound up and ready to bolt.  Doubt that I would enjoy her company -- she'd make me nervous.

After the Slaps Heard Round the Word in Barts lab at the top of S3:3, Molly got a whole lot less twitchy.  That scared bunny rabbit façade is all an act.  The truth is, Molly is a BAMF.

[bronzeblues]

2 hours ago, Hikari said:

After the Slaps Heard Round the Word in Barts lab at the top of S3:3, Molly got a whole lot less twitchy.  That scared bunny rabbit façade is all an act.  The truth is, Molly is a BAMF.

Honestly, that's just one of many moments where I rolled my eyes so far into my head I could actually see myself think.

A lazy atempt to suddenly make Molly such a badass she actually has courage to slap the man she is hopelessly in love with. I'll pass, thanks. 

[Arcadia]

You'll pass? Goodie, more left over for me!  

When I'm around men I find attractive, I'm exactly like Molly. (Or a rabbit.) Brain freezes, and I stand around stuttering and looking frightened. Even I am annoyed by it. It's also the reason I identified with her the moment I clapped eyes on her. You go get 'im, girl! And let Lestrade find someone his own age.

[Carol the Dabbler]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

.   let Lestrade find someone his own age.

I don't think there are any.  There are younger women such as Molly, Mary, Irene, and not-Anthea; and there are older women such as Mrs. Hudson and Lady Smallwood.  I can't offhand think of any female continuing characters between early 40's and early 60's.  Can you?

[T.o.b.y]

5 hours ago, bronzeblues said:

Honestly, that's just one of many moments where I rolled my eyes so far into my head I could actually see myself think.

A lazy atempt to suddenly make Molly such a badass she actually has courage to slap the man she is hopelessly in love with. I'll pass, thanks. 

I actually didn't like that scene either. It seemed out of character, forced. Fortunately, Louise Brealey (I bet I misspelled her name again) is a great actress and managed to pull it off imo. I filed it under "characters on TV actually doing what real life people only do their heads". Have I ever slapped a person I was exasperated with or called an idiot whose proximity alone was a threat to my sanity an idiot? Of course not. But I have had those thoughts. Which is why I find it liberating to watch Sherlock insult people and I imagine some viewers felt a similar way about Molly slapping Sherlock. 

I was rather attached to her meek little Victorian Good Girl image because that's just a type that Iike but come to think of it, it's nice that they added more layers to her. 

There's nothing admirable about slapping Sherlock, imo. To me, it's just Molly being human and imperfect and acting on a dumb impulse. Impotent rage. Like John sometimes. Neither of them are saints per se, they just act as Sherlock's "better angels" (to use another quote from my beloved Victorian novels). That's their role in his life but in their own lives, they're just flawed people. Fair enough. 

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I don't think there are any.  There are younger women such as Molly, Mary, Irene, and not-Anthea; and there are older women such as Mrs. Hudson and Lady Smallwood.  I can't offhand think of any female continuing characters between early 40's and early 60's.  Can you?

No, but I'm sure Moftiss can invent one!

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

I actually didn't like that scene either. It seemed out of character, forced. Fortunately, Louise Brealey (I bet I misspelled her name again) is a great actress and managed to pull it off imo. I filed it under "characters on TV actually doing what real life people only do their heads". Have I ever slapped a person I was exasperated with or called an idiot whose proximity alone was a threat to my sanity an idiot? Of course not. But I have had those thoughts. Which is why I find it liberating to watch Sherlock insult people and I imagine some viewers felt a similar way about Molly slapping Sherlock. 

That sounds a bit like my "impressionistic writing" theory. (Well, it's not "my" theory, it's a thing ... well, anyway...) That is, not everything you see on screen is meant to taken literally. The slapping scene is not about inflicting violence on Sherlock Holmes, it's about how Molly feels. Sure, she could have looked angry and hurt and remonstrated with Sherlock about his drug use, etc etc ... but 3 slaps conveys all that and much more to the audience. Writing for the emotional or dramatic impact rather than the realistic one. I know some people don't like it, and I sort of get why. But it works on me like a charm.  

[Carol the Dabbler]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Writing for the emotional or dramatic impact rather than the realistic one. I know some people don't like it, and I sort of get why. But it works on me like a charm.  

OK, now I'm curious, and I don't recall if you've already said -- how are you with John kicking Sherlock?

As for Moftiss inventing a woman for Greg -- characters introduced as love interests never last, do they?  Not just on Sherlock, of course, because it's an old cliche, but just look at Moftiss's track record: Sarah, Jeanette, Tom -- even Mary.  No, I'm pretty sure that the only way for Greg to hang on to his next woman is to hook up with an already-established continuing character.  There just aren't all that many to choose from, and in my opinion Molly is the only good fit.

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

OK, now I'm curious, and I don't recall if you've already said -- how are you with John kicking Sherlock?

In terms of the story? Yeah, it works for me. It was meant to be horrifying, and I was horrified; at the same time, I felt like I understood John completely. Every lie, trick, betrayal, insult, abandonment, etc. he'd ever had to endure was in those kicks. So as an expression of what he was feeling; yep, message received and understood. Sure, he could have just stood there and called Sherlock names, but I seriously doubt it would have had the same visceral impact. It is a visual medium, after all.

In terms of character development? It makes me sad. (But then, I guess that's what I'm supposed to feel.) I feel like I love John a little less now than I used to, that I can't quite trust him anymore. I've noticed that a lot of writers and actors love to explore the dark side of their characters, but that's never been a favorite with me. If I want to see people failing to be their better selves, I only have to look around me everyday. I prefer characters who rise above it. But that's just me, I know a lot of people feel differently. And unlike, ahem, some people, I don't insist that the writers produce what I want to see or it's garbage. It's their story, not mine. 

In terms of demonstrating how real people should act in real life? Hell no. With one caveat ... I do think violence between friends, especially male friends, is somehow different than violence between lovers. I can't explain it, I just know it feels different to me. If John and Sherlock were in a openly romantic relationship, I think I would have found John's actions unforgiveable. As it is, if Sherlock wants to forgive him; well, that's just one more point in Sherlock's favor.

Quote

As for Moftiss inventing a woman for Greg -- characters introduced as love interests never last, do they?  Not just on Sherlock, of course, because it's an old cliche, but just look at Moftiss's track record: Sarah, Jeanette, Tom -- even Mary.  No, I'm pretty sure that the only way for Greg to hang on to his next woman is to hook up with an already-established continuing character.  There just aren't all that many to choose from, and in my opinion Molly is the only good fit.

Put that way ... it just sounds even more soap operatic! Besides, everyone else is alone, why should Greg be the only one to find marital bliss? Equal lonesomeness for all, that's what I say!

[bronzeblues]

10 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

I actually didn't like that scene either. It seemed out of character, forced. Fortunately, Louise Brealey (I bet I misspelled her name again) is a great actress and managed to pull it off imo. I filed it under "characters on TV actually doing what real life people only do their heads". Have I ever slapped a person I was exasperated with or called an idiot whose proximity alone was a threat to my sanity an idiot? Of course not. But I have had those thoughts. Which is why I find it liberating to watch Sherlock insult people and I imagine some viewers felt a similar way about Molly slapping Sherlock. 

I was rather attached to her meek little Victorian Good Girl image because that's just a type that Iike but come to think of it, it's nice that they added more layers to her. 

There's nothing admirable about slapping Sherlock, imo. To me, it's just Molly being human and imperfect and acting on a dumb impulse. Impotent rage. Like John sometimes. Neither of them are saints per se, they just act as Sherlock's "better angels" (to use another quote from my beloved Victorian novels). That's their role in his life but in their own lives, they're just flawed people. Fair enough. 

Honestly, I don't see it having anything to do with Molly bring "human" or whatever (how I hate that phrase btw) IMO it was just widely OOC. I wouldn't slap Sherlock in that situation and I am much more Janine and less Molly. For me it just struck as lazy ass writing, the same way Mary "the super assassin" did. It's the worst case of unimaginitive writing when under all the pressure to make "strong female characters" (another phrase I hate) they either turn them into face slapping hardasses or some super spies/assassins. Mary wouldn't be any less of a woman if she were "just" a nurse. If anything, I find that job to be admirable.

[T.o.b.y]

3 hours ago, bronzeblues said:

Honestly, I don't see it having anything to do with Molly bring "human" or whatever (how I hate that phrase btw) IMO it was just widely OOC. I wouldn't slap Sherlock in that situation and I am much more Janine and less Molly.

Well, I am very Molly and not Janine at all and I would most likely feel the rash and unhealthy impulse to slap Sherlock in that situation, I just wouldn't act on it. 

I find it easy to make sense of her behavior, what bothers me is that I have a sneaking suspicion we as the audience are somehow expected to find the action laudable and applaud her for it. "Look at Molly not being a doormat anymore!" 

Ummmm... Nope. I prefer my (wilful mis-) interpretation. I love this show and I love Molly and if I have to twist things around a bit in my mind to retain that love then so be it. 

[bronzeblues]

1 hour ago, T.o.b.y said:

Well, I am very Molly and not Janine at all and I would most likely feel the rash and unhealthy impulse to slap Sherlock in that situation, I just wouldn't act on it. 

I find it easy to make sense of her behavior, what bothers me is that I have a sneaking suspicion we as the audience are somehow expected to find the action laudable and applaud her for it. "Look at Molly not being a doormat anymore!" 

Ummmm... Nope. I prefer my (wilful mis-) interpretation. I love this show and I love Molly and if I have to twist things around a bit in my mind to retain that love then so be it. 

"Look at Molly not being a doormat anymore!" sums up every reason why  I find this scene to be way too on the nose and lousy. Its sole purpose is too push this new agenda of a badass Molly down our throats. 

I also want to mention in Sherlolly fanfiction even people who are writing it seem to know deep down that a notion of these two together is a FAR FAR stretch so it seems to me Molly very often gets pregnant after one sole(often drunk) hook-up. Truly a deus-ex-machina way of Sherlock suddenly realising he's in looooveee. And making Irene some kind of conplete evil who is drugging Sherlock and quasi-raping him every time she sees him. Yeeesh... 

[T.o.b.y]

Thanks for reminding me why I am very careful about what fanfiction I take a closer look at! 

I can't imagine Sherlock in a relationship with Irene or Molly. He and Irene could be their own probably f...ed up version of friends with benefits and he and Molly make great friends but that's as far as my imagination goes. 

I think for Sherlock, Irene is hot and Molly is lovable and he doesn't intend to be either woman's boyfriend. 

But maybe that's just me being unable to picture Sherlock Holmes as anyone's romantic partner. 

I like Irene too, btw. At least this incarnation of her.