Mycroft Holmes

[sittything]

Mycroft just needs to find himself a nice ice queen. ;)

[T.o.b.y]

I just don't think, from what I've seen, that Mycroft really sees things or feels things at that level.  The idea of divorcing himself from emotion seems to sit much more comfortably on Mycroft than it does on Sherlock.  I would have a hard time pointing to conclusive evidence, but my read on the Mycroft character is that he is interested in his work to the exclusion of all else, and that giving up romantic partnership or friends or other human interaction (Diogenes Club) isn't a hardship for him.  In some ways, I think his policy of being a loner is more of a justification of what he wants to do anyway rather than a discipline that he's embraced.  (Although, choosing MI5/6 as a career would intensify that natural inclination.)

 

I think Sherlock, in contrast, has embraced celebacy/avoidance of partnership because he philosophically thinks that such things distract him overmuch -- in other words, he's saying that he feels too much, and his feelings take over his intellect, which is what he actually values.  That's why I have trouble seeing Sherlock as asexual; I think he has the feelings but believes he should control them, and things like The Woman come along and trip him up in that quest.

 

 

Exactly. That is my take on those two characters as well.

 

I think Mycroft might be romantic partner material; in fact, I think in some ways he would be an ideal husband for the right man or woman.  Any vow he took he would take absolutely seriously; I think he would be relentlessly faithful; and I think he would have a certain quiet kindness.

 

I'm not too sure about that part. I hold that Mycroft really loves Sherlock, that this is the utmost he can do in the affection department, anyway, and look how he treats him. Mycroft is controlling, overbearing and sadistic. He could be a terribly abusive husband - not physically, but emotionally for sure. The poor partner. She / he would probably end like David Copperfield's mother.

[Boton]

 

 

 

I'm not too sure about that part. I hold that Mycroft really loves Sherlock, that this is the utmost he can do in the affection department, anyway, and look how he treats him. Mycroft is controlling, overbearing and sadistic. He could be a terribly abusive husband - not physically, but emotionally for sure. The poor partner. She / he would probably end like David Copperfield's mother.

 

 

I think that SiP indeed does show everything we need to know about Mycroft's ability to love, because he certainly does love Sherlock.  My gloss on it, though, is that he has absolutely no idea how to show it in an adult way.  I tend to imagine that, as someone 7 years older than Sherlock, he's used to basically using everything in his power to get his little brother to do what he thinks is best.  That's one thing when you're 13 and thinking about picking your brother up and carrying him somewhere calling Mummy/Daddy/Nanny if he's into something dangerous.  It's another thing all together if you think you can use MI5 to keep tabs on him.  My guess on his potential kindness is based mostly on a hope that he has another "mode" in which he has adult relationships, to the extent that he has them at all.  

[sfmpco]

Well to be fair, Mycroft does let his sentiment for Sherlock steer a lot of his emotion, but then he can be an absolute git with Sherlock too.  Would he really have allowed the Serbian torturer to start beating Sherlock with  metal pipe?  Seriously????

 

I don't know if Mycroft is relationship material.  He'd have to come down off of his "I'm living in a world full of goldfish" pedestal first.  Because the goldfish comment isn't gender specific - it's a comment on how he views people and friendships in general.  He has a little relationship with Anthea, but that's just boss an subordinate.  She probably understands the inner workings of his world better than anyone, and she's worked for/with him for several years.

 

He's alone but I don't think lonely.  There is often the presumption that being alone makes one lonely, but some people have to be alone to shut out the noise of daily life and commitments in order to be able to think clearly and to decompress.  It's not that I think Mycroft is incapable of a relationship, but that he truly values his quiet and alone time and relationships - even phone calls from Sherlock, disturb that quiet.

[T.o.b.y]

Well to be fair, Mycroft does let his sentiment for Sherlock steer a lot of his emotion, but then he can be an absolute git with Sherlock too.  Would he really have allowed the Serbian torturer to start beating Sherlock with  metal pipe?  Seriously????

 

He seems to have allowed him to do quite a number of other things, judging by the state Sherlock is in by the time we see him, so why not?

 

I will never, ever forgive Mycroft for that, by the way. Of course Sherlock doesn't mind. He seems to have a remarkable ability to shake off abuse. But I think it's really the last straw. Spying on his little brother and kidnapping and interrogating his new flatmate is one thing, but torture? And don't tell me Mycroft didn't have a choice. The almighty Mycroft always has a choice. He could have put a stop to all that much sooner, but he didn't. Sherlock said he was enjoying himself. Enjoying! How sick do you have to be?

[Arcadia]

Sherlock said that, but Sherlock says a lot of things. I don't think Mycroft was necessarily enjoying it, but I do think on some level he thought Sherlock deserved a little taste of it. I think Mycroft thinks Sherlock is wasting his talents as a detective and needs a dose of the real world. Doesn't make it any more forgiveable, though.

 

To answer your question, Shadow: I don't think Mycroft is romantic material because he doesn't want to be. For whatever reason, he has no use for that aspect of life. Of course, to some extent his disdain for "sentiment" is just a cover, much as Sherlock's "psycopathy" is just a cover. But they're both so attached to their covers that I don't think either one of them makes decent romantic material.

[Shadow Dweller]

Mycroft just needs to find himself a nice ice queen. ;)

 

Imagine two person like that in cahoots; brilliant, devious minds with inhuman self-control. Could the world take it without imploding first? :D

 

 

 

I just don't think, from what I've seen, that Mycroft really sees things or feels things at that level.  The idea of divorcing himself from emotion seems to sit much more comfortably on Mycroft than it does on Sherlock.  I would have a hard time pointing to conclusive evidence, but my read on the Mycroft character is that he is interested in his work to the exclusion of all else, and that giving up romantic partnership or friends or other human interaction (Diogenes Club) isn't a hardship for him.  In some ways, I think his policy of being a loner is more of a justification of what he wants to do anyway rather than a discipline that he's embraced.  (Although, choosing MI5/6 as a career would intensify that natural inclination.)

 

I think Sherlock, in contrast, has embraced celebacy/avoidance of partnership because he philosophically thinks that such things distract him overmuch -- in other words, he's saying that he feels too much, and his feelings take over his intellect, which is what he actually values.  That's why I have trouble seeing Sherlock as asexual; I think he has the feelings but believes he should control them, and things like The Woman come along and trip him up in that quest.

 

 

Exactly. That is my take on those two characters as well.

 

I think Mycroft might be romantic partner material; in fact, I think in some ways he would be an ideal husband for the right man or woman.  Any vow he took he would take absolutely seriously; I think he would be relentlessly faithful; and I think he would have a certain quiet kindness.

 

I'm not too sure about that part. I hold that Mycroft really loves Sherlock, that this is the utmost he can do in the affection department, anyway, and look how he treats him. Mycroft is controlling, overbearing and sadistic. He could be a terribly abusive husband - not physically, but emotionally for sure. The poor partner. She / he would probably end like David Copperfield's mother.

 

 

Now you put an image in my mind of The Woman and Mycroft linking hands together *shudders* lol

 

I think that should someone ever hope to attract Mycroft's eyes in that aspect and be a equal partner, s/he would have to appeal to his intellectual side. I cannot picture Mycroft in mutual affection with woolly-headed socialite, no matter how aesthetically pleasant s/he is, social skill notwithstanding. That would only be a partnership of convenience.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Mycroft just needs to find himself a nice ice queen. ;)

 

Imagine two person like that in cahoots; brilliant, devious minds with inhuman self-control. Could the world take it without imploding first? :D

Oh dear, now you're making me imagine Mycroft / Moriarty !

 

(Excuse me while I shudder quietly in the corner.)

[sfmpco]

Sherlock can lose control of his emotions - it's what he fears the most.  Mycroft, however, seems in perfect control of his emotions and seems to have no fear of losing control.  Mycroft might shoot an intruder if he had to, but he would never murder someone in cold blood.  He would never jump for glee.  I'd like to see him really pressed at some point.  He is the epitome of the stoic British gentleman.  Is there actually anything that could rattle him emotionally?  I wonder...

[Zain]

 

 

For intuitor to be able to deduce instantly like Sherlock and Mycroft, they have to possess very developed S and trained since it is not natural for them to catch and retain all details except correlated with their view of the event like you said. Mycroft is a mysterious figure, he is very much open for any kind of interpretation. *shrugs* I think the Holmes brothers' skill of deduction is homage to the original ACD version ;)

 

 

Intuitors are usually not really "deducing" when they make their conclusions. Oddly, I wouldn't call it a gut feeling, either. More like... perceiving a feeling of right or wrong about the big picture, then going into the details to find out which part of it gave off the bad vibe. I can't speak for the entirety of all intuitors, granted, and there are other factors involved, but that is how it works for me. It's closer to abductive reasoning than to Sherlock's inductive reasoning. Imagine a doe who heard a noise, then sharply looks up. Within an instant, it either decides to ignore it or to flee. That's how I would describe it. And whether to flee or not is decided by your intuition. Something may tell you that something is wrong. Only that we are not animals in danger of being killed, but humans on alert, because something is not right. It feels off, and we cannot place yet why, it just IS. Subsequently, we won't feel comfortable until we found out what set off the inner alarm clock. A strange metaphor, but the only one I could think of. 

Maybe you are right and being in touch with one's S helps with deductive reasoning. I don't know. But it sounds logical, though I haven't yet seen a study into Myers Briggs types and the preferred reasoning. Sounds like an interesting study for social psychologists, though.

 

 

 

 

 

I love that picture of Mycroft before the British flag! It's absolutely perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

I love that picture, too! But it also made me think: What if Mycroft wasn't as faithful to queen and country as he is depicted? I think he'd make a terrific villain. In an AU version of Sherlock, that is. Pragmatic, cautious, arrogant, dominant. 

 

 

 

Mycroft in a romantic relationship... I do consider him capable of feeling strongly about a person. But i also believe that any expression of his interest would be accompanied by a strong feeling of possessiveness. He's someone who would need to manage the relationship. Unless he feels in control, he cannot feel comfortable with something. I wonder if that is maybe one of the reasons why he doesn't - to our knowledge - seek a partner. It seems like a relationship would permanently cause him to worry about keeping in control, to a point where it may interfere with his other duties. Besides, I struggle with coming up with someone who could accept this need to control., It would be a rather... strange relationship. On the other hand, I, too, think that if Mycroft decided on a person, he'd devote himself to the relationship. That's my take on it.

[T.o.b.y]

The only kind of relationship I can imagine for Mycroft is one of those old-fashioned, arranged, political marriages, where the partners go through the motions in public and occasionally engage in uninspired sex to produce an heir, but otherwise ignore each other and live their separate lives. And even then, I'd feel sorry for the poor woman.

[Shadow Dweller]

 

Mycroft just needs to find himself a nice ice queen. ;)

 

Imagine two person like that in cahoots; brilliant, devious minds with inhuman self-control. Could the world take it without imploding first? :D

Oh dear, now you're making me imagine Mycroft / Moriarty !

 

(Excuse me while I shudder quietly in the corner.)

 

 

Right on time, today I found a fic where dear Jim fall for the Iceman after their meeting in the interrogation room ^-^

 

 

Sherlock can lose control of his emotions - it's what he fears the most.  Mycroft, however, seems in perfect control of his emotions and seems to have no fear of losing control.  Mycroft might shoot an intruder if he had to, but he would never murder someone in cold blood.  He would never jump for glee.  I'd like to see him really pressed at some point.  He is the epitome of the stoic British gentleman.  Is there actually anything that could rattle him emotionally?  I wonder...

 

I agree for Sherlock, he better learn to manage emotion and not dismissing it entirely else it would explode at inopportune moments. 

 

Never jump in glee, agreed. However, what make you think that Mycroft would never kill someone in cold blood? Killing does not need to occur in moment of great passion. 

 

 

 

 

 

For intuitor to be able to deduce instantly like Sherlock and Mycroft, they have to possess very developed S and trained since it is not natural for them to catch and retain all details except correlated with their view of the event like you said. Mycroft is a mysterious figure, he is very much open for any kind of interpretation. *shrugs* I think the Holmes brothers' skill of deduction is homage to the original ACD version ;)

 

 

Intuitors are usually not really "deducing" when they make their conclusions. Oddly, I wouldn't call it a gut feeling, either. More like... perceiving a feeling of right or wrong about the big picture, then going into the details to find out which part of it gave off the bad vibe. I can't speak for the entirety of all intuitors, granted, and there are other factors involved, but that is how it works for me. It's closer to abductive reasoning than to Sherlock's inductive reasoning. Imagine a doe who heard a noise, then sharply looks up. Within an instant, it either decides to ignore it or to flee. That's how I would describe it. And whether to flee or not is decided by your intuition. Something may tell you that something is wrong. Only that we are not animals in danger of being killed, but humans on alert, because something is not right. It feels off, and we cannot place yet why, it just IS. Subsequently, we won't feel comfortable until we found out what set off the inner alarm clock. A strange metaphor, but the only one I could think of. 

Maybe you are right and being in touch with one's S helps with deductive reasoning. I don't know. But it sounds logical, though I haven't yet seen a study into Myers Briggs types and the preferred reasoning. Sounds like an interesting study for social psychologists, though.

 

 

 

 

 

I love that picture of Mycroft before the British flag! It's absolutely perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

I love that picture, too! But it also made me think: What if Mycroft wasn't as faithful to queen and country as he is depicted? I think he'd make a terrific villain. In an AU version of Sherlock, that is. Pragmatic, cautious, arrogant, dominant. 

 

 

 

Mycroft in a romantic relationship... I do consider him capable of feeling strongly about a person. But i also believe that any expression of his interest would be accompanied by a strong feeling of possessiveness. He's someone who would need to manage the relationship. Unless he feels in control, he cannot feel comfortable with something. I wonder if that is maybe one of the reasons why he doesn't - to our knowledge - seek a partner. It seems like a relationship would permanently cause him to worry about keeping in control, to a point where it may interfere with his other duties. Besides, I struggle with coming up with someone who could accept this need to control., It would be a rather... strange relationship. On the other hand, I, too, think that if Mycroft decided on a person, he'd devote himself to the relationship. That's my take on it.

 

 

The study of how cognitive functions work. Some said that deduction is a process where theory come first then followed by assessment of data and induction goes to the opposite direction. You decide which one is closer to how the Holmes brothers operate.

 

;) He would, maybe like the original Professor James Moriarty; calculating, driven, ruthless without Jim's need for showing off and games. Double or triple the danger he possessed because of his power in the government, he would make Jim looks like a little boy playing with toy gun. Is there anyone can ever hope to bring down this villain with good publicity?

 

That's why I mentioned about equal partner. We know from the series that he saw Sherlock as a child but a partner who earned his respect might not have to face the same fate.

 

 

The only kind of relationship I can imagine for Mycroft is one of those old-fashioned, arranged, political marriages, where the partners go through the motions in public and occasionally engage in uninspired sex to produce an heir, but otherwise ignore each other and live their separate lives. And even then, I'd feel sorry for the poor woman.

 

Why sorry, isn't that her own choice to be involved there? 

[Boton]

The only kind of relationship I can imagine for Mycroft is one of those old-fashioned, arranged, political marriages, where the partners go through the motions in public and occasionally engage in uninspired sex to produce an heir, but otherwise ignore each other and live their separate lives. And even then, I'd feel sorry for the poor woman.

 

I can see that.  But I also think Mycroft gave us a bit of an answer in that terrific scene where he introduced the concept of other people as goldfish.  Above all, Mycroft wants to associate with his intellectual equals.  There's really nothing wrong with that, but it narrows his potential pool of friends and dates.  Whereas I might suggest that, if he is lonely as Sherlock suggests, he could bend his standards a little to admit some friends, I don't blame him a bit for insisting on an intellectual equal as a life partner.  It can get mighty tedious to have your primary relationship be with someone who doesn't challenge you intellectually, and if that's the case for him, he should hold to it.

 

I don't even know that I see Mycroft as having a lot of physical need, although I don't think we have a great deal of evidence one way or the other.  But my own head canon has just been that Mycroft, perhaps by necessity, has separated biological need for sexual release from emotional/intellectual need for companionship by necessity, and that perhaps his sexual life is a reflection of that.  

 

But hey, I could be totally wrong.  Maybe he and Anthea are having a wild "friends with benefits" relationship and we're just not getting any of the clues.

[sittything]

I wonder how difficult that is for Mycroft, interacting with normal people, given that we're told he's even smarter than Sherlock, which frankly I can't even wrap my goldfish head around.   Sherlock's intelligence exceeds that of other people I find to be smart on the show, so to think that Mycroft is even smarter is just...

 

 

Clearly, Sherlock doesn't mind interacting with or is at least willing to interact with people that are of lesser intelligence in order to not be alone.

[Boton]

I wonder how difficult that is for Mycroft, interacting with normal people, given that we're told he's even smarter than Sherlock, which frankly I can't even wrap my goldfish head around.   Sherlock's intelligence exceeds that of other people I find to be smart on the show, so to think that Mycroft is even smarter is just...

 

 

Clearly, Sherlock doesn't mind interacting with or is at least willing to interact with people that are of lesser intelligence in order to not be alone.

 

In another side of my internet life, I'm in a forum/group for exceptionally and profoundly gifted individuals and family of such individuals.  It seems that that group divides pretty easily into the "Mycrofts" and the "Sherlocks" of the world, and I don't think it has much to do with IQ.  (Because, let's face it -- once you're two or three standard deviations away from the peak of the bell curve, there's not a lot of difference to be made by getting even further away with a higher IQ.)

 

Some people seem to be endlessly frustrated by "goldfish" -- they'd rather limit their contact than put up with the anxiety of thinking and analyzing faster than basically anyone they encounter on a daily basis.  Some, on the other hand, view intelligence as a tool they can use to facilitate their interactions with others.  It doesn't mean they don't get frustrated or that they are always altruistic (like Sherlock, I think there is some temptation to use the power to manipulate situations), but they don't pull themselves out of "normal" life because of "normal" people.

[Shadow Dweller]

In another side of my internet life, I'm in a forum/group for exceptionally and profoundly gifted individuals and family of such individuals.  It seems that that group divides pretty easily into the "Mycrofts" and the "Sherlocks" of the world, and I don't think it has much to do with IQ.  (Because, let's face it -- once you're two or three standard deviations away from the peak of the bell curve, there's not a lot of difference to be made by getting even further away with a higher IQ.)

 

Some people seem to be endlessly frustrated by "goldfish" -- they'd rather limit their contact than put up with the anxiety of thinking and analyzing faster than basically anyone they encounter on a daily basis.  Some, on the other hand, view intelligence as a tool they can use to facilitate their interactions with others.  It doesn't mean they don't get frustrated or that they are always altruistic (like Sherlock, I think there is some temptation to use the power to manipulate situations), but they don't pull themselves out of "normal" life because of "normal" people.

 

 

Poor Sherlock; no sulking please, and get out more. Who knows what kind of interesting things you would find out there    

[sittything]

I dunno how truly smart people do it.  I'm not all that extraordinarily bright, and I can't deal with a huge swath of the population on any given day.  lol  So I can definitely see why Mycroft wouldn't want to be bothered.

 

 

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Interesting GIF of Alan Rickman.

[sfmpco]

If Mycroft were to ever have a relationship, it would have to be with someone who is intellectually stimulating to him.  Someone with whom he can calmly have discussions about world events and politics, religion, whatever.  Whereas Sherlock's intellect led him into science - a "graduate chemist" - I have to think that Mycroft's studies were more in political science, though I can't imagine him ever being a MP because I can't see him being bothered by caring about the cares of the Commonwealth.  He's got his fingers in bigger pies of the world.  So to have any relationship would be more sapiosexual - the attraction of intellect.  Somehow he tolerates the other people in his peerage, and he probably tolerated Moriarty and Magnussen because of their intellect.  However, he saw right through Irene Adler when Sherlock did not because Sherlock let other emotions start to cloud his judgement.

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

The only kind of relationship I can imagine for Mycroft is one of those old-fashioned, arranged, political marriages, where the partners go through the motions in public and occasionally engage in uninspired sex to produce an heir, but otherwise ignore each other and live their separate lives. And even then, I'd feel sorry for the poor woman.

 

Well, maybe if Mycroft got into an arranged marriage, it'd be with a woman who's just as unsociable and hateful of people as he is, so they can either spend their days in mutual ignoring of each other or griping about how stupid people are and how there should be a license to breed.

[sittything]

Interesting GIF of Alan Rickman.

 

I figured he was relevant thanks to the voice discussions the other day.  ;)

[Carol the Dabbler]

... he saw right through Irene Adler when Sherlock did not because Sherlock let other emotions start to cloud his judgement.

Did Mycroft actually see through Irene, or did she simply reveal herself to him? I'm thinking of Mycroft's apology to Sherlock on the plane: "I drove you into her path.  I’m sorry.  I didn’t know."  Is he saying that he didn't know what Irene was really like -- or that he didn't know how Sherlock would react to her?

 

[sittything]

See through Irene Adler specifically in what way?

[Shadow Dweller]

 

:lol:

[T.o.b.y]

 

Did Mycroft actually see through Irene, or did she simply reveal herself to him? I'm thinking of Mycroft's apology to Sherlock on the plane: "I drove you into her path.  I’m sorry.  I didn’t know."  Is he saying that he didn't know what Irene was really like -- or that he didn't know how Sherlock would react to her?

 

Definitely the latter, if you ask me! I think Mycroft thought Sherlock would be the perfect person to deal with Irene (apart from himself), because he was supposed to be immune to her charms. Like Irene herself, Mycroft didn't expect Sherlock to "know where to look", much less be affected by what he saw...