Mycroft Holmes

[J.P.]

Me too.

[bedelia1984]

 Mycroft shows his human face and reactions mostly in TGG. He looks sincerely sorry when he apologizes about the information he gave to Jim.

 

 

I also like the side of Mycroft we see in HLV- (yes, he is drugged, but perhaps his inhibitions are just that bit lowered), when he tells Sherlock his loss will break his heart. And also, the fact that when they are smoking- I think (could be mistaken) that when their mother catches them, Sherlock instantly blames Mycroft whereas Mycroft tries to cover for them both. I see that as definitive of their relationship- that his is very much the big brother protecting the younger one. As much as he protests about his lack of caring at the end when he is shielding Sherlock from punishment- I do see sincere love and loyalty there.

 

 I don't really like Mycroft... Of all the main characters he just seems the least real. I think there's something cartoonisch about him, as if a mastermind from a Bond or superhero film had stumbled into the Sherlock series and was trying to tell everyone what to do in a world that is much more complex than his own.

 

 

I can see what you mean here, I always get the impression that he does see himself as the lofty mastermind- and yet, emotionally, he seems more stunted than Sherlock to me. We saw so much of Sherlock developing last season, whereas with Mycroft we know so little. I was always puzzled by his taunting Sherlock about being afraid of sex, because to me. Sherlock is definitely cerebral and likely inexperienced, but Mycroft seems wholly devoid of any human attachment at all (besides his brother). He seems to look down on absolutely everyone- are we expected to believe that he is somehow capable of a relationship, either with a man or woman?

 

Which is not to say that I dislike him, as I do like him, very much. If anything, the fact he seems to struggle even more than Sherlock with emotional issues makes my heart go out to him even more. In Scandal, when Molly asks him (of all people!) about Sherlock and Irene, that bemused grimace he gives her, to me shows that whatever possible romance Sherlock could be involved in is definitely not his 'area' of expertise (and his displeasure that a mere mortal has decided to jump ranks and try to engage him in gossip). I wish he and Molly would have another scene, actually, there is surely some comic gold to be had there.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I was always puzzled by his taunting Sherlock about being afraid of sex, because to me. Sherlock is definitely cerebral and likely inexperienced, but Mycroft seems wholly devoid of any human attachment at all (besides his brother). He seems to look down on absolutely everyone- are we expected to believe that he is somehow capable of a relationship, either with a man or woman?

It may be significant that Mycroft doesn't say "relationship" -- just "sex," and yes, I assume he's capable of that.

[bedelia1984]

 

It may be significant that Mycroft doesn't say "relationship" -- just "sex," and yes, I assume he's capable of that.

 

 

You're right, that must be it. I do find it hard to imagine what Mycroft might do to unwind... apart from the treadmill, of course! He doesn't strike me as especially sensual, but who knows...

 

It's interesting that both the Holmes boys have such particular attitudes to relationships or lack thereof, whilst their parents seem so utterly normal and in such a warm and cosy marriage. Though I doubt we've seen the whole picture of their family history yet.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I doubt it too!  Of course, Moftiss may be just messing with our heads, but the title of the book Mummy wrote is suspiciously similar to that of a treatise written by the canon Moriarty.

[Shadow Dweller]

Mummy Holmes, the real Moriarty, and she make a title that would be more suitable in a subject around demolition than math. :D

[bedelia1984]

I doubt it too!  Of course, Moftiss may be just messing with our heads, but the title of the book Mummy wrote is suspiciously similar to that of a treatise written by the canon Moriarty.

 

I wonder will we see an episode unmasking Sherlock's mother as a true criminal mastermind? Maybe a hidden lair beneath the cosy cottage? ;) Though, Mycroft and Sherlock are relatively upstanding. I did think it was interesting that Mary identified the father as the 'sane' one- again it makes you wonder about the mother.

 

 It is a bit of a stretch to believe she gave all her big ideas (about combustion, if you don't mind) up for the children, who have been grown for approaching two decades, now. A psychiatrist would have a field day theorising her relationship with her sons, based on the psychology of Mycroft and Sherlock. That's not even getting started on the 'missing' son. God, I can't wait for season four.

[Carol the Dabbler]

It is a bit of a stretch to believe she gave all her big ideas (about combustion, if you don't mind) up for the children, who have been grown for approaching two decades, now.

To be fair, taking twenty years or so off to raise kids can get you pretty far behind in your field. It would be different if she'd been in a creative area, but the sciences move right along, with or without you.

[bedelia1984]

 

It is a bit of a stretch to believe she gave all her big ideas (about combustion, if you don't mind) up for the children, who have been grown for approaching two decades, now.

To be fair, taking twenty years or so off to raise kids can get you pretty far behind in your field. It would be different if she'd been in a creative area, but the sciences move right along, with or without you.

 

 

I didn't explain myself well- I see your point about a potentially long setback in her career, but what I mean is that a lady with the kind of sharp, focused and perhaps obsessive mind that she presumably passed on to Mycroft and Sherlock, would find it incredibly difficult to remain idle in the intervening years after they both left home? To me, it is as unlikely as Sherlock being satisfied keeping bees for forty years.

 

I would think it more likely that the 'stay at home' image  was a cover, for some work from home of a possibly more classified nature. And also, the kind of writing she did would have been possible to do from home anyway, surely, as the children were growing up, leaving out whilst they were very young, but considering when they were at school, for example?

 

You have to wonder what her obsessions were in her youth, given her book title, and also if her sons' interests are anything to go by. It seems to me like all the family share a certain contempt for what might be their recognised place in any accepted field. Instead, Mycroft and Sherlock, anyway, seem intent on pursuing their own very singular interests, as well as their own ethical guidelines. I think of them both more as trail-blazers than on a set career path, so I would guess their Mum was the same. All pure speculation of course.

 

I also would love to know what it was Mycroft did to 'upset Mummy'.

 

Mummy Holmes, the real Moriarty, and she make a title that would be more suitable in a subject around demolition than math

 

 

That, at least, seems a shared interest with Moriarty. Perhaps he studied her text?

[Shadow Dweller]

Maybe he did studied her works and maybe that's also added to his hunger to play with her sons. ^^

[Carol the Dabbler]

Mummy Holmes, the real Moriarty, and she make a title that would be more suitable in a subject around demolition than math. :D

 

I agree about that title being a bit off -- she calls it mathematics, but it sounds to me more like physics (and math used to be my field, before I got into computers).

 

I see your point about a potentially long setback in her career, but what I mean is that a lady with the kind of sharp, focused and perhaps obsessive mind that she presumably passed on to Mycroft and Sherlock, would find it incredibly difficult to remain idle in the intervening years after they both left home? To me, it is an unlikely as Sherlock being satisfied keeping bees for forty years.

 

I would think it more likely that the 'stay at home' image  was a cover, for some work from home of a possibly more classified nature. And also, the kind of writing she did would have been possible to do from home anyway, surely, as the children were growing up, leaving out whilst they were very young, but considering when they were at school, for example?

True, all of that. In order to be taken seriously in academia, one generally needs to be on a university faculty, and preferably fairly high up the totem pole, which typically requires one to forgo anything resembling a real life, and I seriously doubt that an at-home mom would be able to pull that off. BUT -- as you point out, there are other arenas where she might be able to contribute some pretty serious stuff.

[J.P.]

Okay, a theory. Mycroft witnessed that his mother gave up her career and talent for the family... or for a man, who wanted family and later proved not being worth of it? There is this other theory about Daddy cheating... So young Mycroft swore to himself that he never let himself being led by feelings/attachement/caring. Sometimes parents are an example you don't want to follow. Sometimes you are successful in not repeating their story. This could also explain why he tries to make Sherlock a copy of himself.

[Arcadia]

The second explanation makes more sense to me ... it would take a sensitive child to think of his/her mother as someone who has a life of her own, methinks, and Mycroft doesn't strike me as that. But I can see a child feeling deeply betrayed by infidelity and swearing never to allow him/herself to be in that position.

[bedelia1984]

There is this other theory about Daddy cheating... So young Mycroft swore to himself that he never let himself being led by feelings/attachement/caring. Sometimes parents are an example you don't want to follow.

 

 

There is this overriding sense that something has happened formatively to Mycroft to make him the way he is, which I think is down to the performance we see onscreen- and you can assume the actor knows his backstory more intimately than the audience. I think a cheating father is definitely an option- though the parents seem so happy and uncomplicated in their relationship, or is that just me? 

 

If I was to guess at an explanatory backstory, I would take into account that at one stage there were three brothers, brilliant and ahead of their age group academically, but perhaps not that emotionally mature. It's a leap of imagination, but if, for example there was a governess or tutor that had a close relationship with the boys growing up, I wonder would Mycroft have been seduced at a very young age by a teacher/ authority figure, and perhaps if Sherrinford was in the picture, there was some rivalry between the two brothers, and ultimately Sherrinford ran away with that person (and then, years later, Mycroft had an opportunity through his career to exact some kind of revenge). To me, this type of story would explain Mycroft's simultaneous wariness of and fondess for Sherlock- perhaps anticipating betrayal but also wanting him to the the 'good' brother that doesn't let him down. I also think there is something in the difference of how Sherlock and Mycroft are- Mycroft more worldly and bitter,  and Sherlock, possibly more sheltered in light of the mistakes of his older brothers, and therefore less able to cope socially and in relationships. When Mycroft sneers at Sherlock in Scandal for being so desperate for a woman's attention that he ended up betraying his country... that does feel like it comes from somewhere a little more personal. So, was it the father betraying the family, or could it have been the 'other' brother betraying Mycroft?

 

I suppose it is also not outside the realms of possibility that Sherrinford could have a different father than the other boys. The mother may have been the one to have strayed, or she may just have been in a prior relationship.

 

 

[J.P.]

Maybe the parents sorted it out finally and Mycroft saw it as another mistake his mother made. Do we ever see Mycroft interacting with Daddy?

 

His hate of Christmas could come from the parents' attempts to be "nice" at the Holidays, playing a game of lies "for children's sake".

BTW, Mycroft's apparently only one genuine human reaction is whining about Chrismas :D

 

But of course the possibilities are infinite. Almost.

[bedelia1984]

BTW, Mycroft's apparently only one genuine human reaction is whining about Chrismas 

 

 

And Les Mis. Don't forget Les Mis! :D  He whines about that quite sincerely too.

 

We don't see him interact with his Dad, but presumably he had to, then? Even if his father was irreproachable, Mycroft would likely still disdain him for being a goldfish.

[Carol the Dabbler]

There is this other theory about Daddy cheating... So young Mycroft swore to himself that he never let himself being led by feelings/attachement/caring. Sometimes parents are an example you don't want to follow.

 

There is this overriding sense that something has happened formatively to Mycroft to make him the way he is, which I think is down to the performance we see onscreen- and you can assume the actor knows his backstory more intimately than the audience. I think a cheating father is definitely an option- though the parents seem so happy and uncomplicated in their relationship, or is that just me?

They do seem to have worked out a lifestyle that currently works for them, yes.  But Mummy seems to be in charge -- perhaps because Daddy's feelings of guilt don't allow him to stand up for himself, and she's not about to encourage him to try.

 

[bedelia1984]

They do seem to have worked out a lifestyle that currently works for them, yes.  But Mummy seems to be in charge -- perhaps because Daddy's feelings of guilt don't allow him to stand up for himself, and she's not about to encourage him to try.

 

 

That does seem to be backed up by the way Mycroft and Sherlock speak about their mother with some degree of deference.  I suppose that seeing a man dominated in a relationship might also put their son off ever getting involved, also. I can't recall either Sherlock or Mycroft ever saying much about their father, but I feel there must be something I've missed, with everyone picking up on this affair angle. I find it hard to imagine how they were brought up at all, actually, as usually you hear that a mother teaches her son how to relate to women, and given what we see of Mycroft and Sherlock, you'd be forgiven for thinking they had very little maternal influence at all. Again, to me it jars with the image of a stay-at-home mother. For me, as well, it is curious how attached Sherlock is to Mrs Hudson, as a surrogate mother figure, whereas he doesn't seem especially close to his own mother.

 

Of course, there is Anthea too, I have always taken her as something of a status symbol, but I do wonder why Mycroft chose her, particularly, to work so closely with- of course, she is beautiful, but there must be more to it than that?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I can't recall either Sherlock or Mycroft ever saying much about their father, but I feel there must be something I've missed, with everyone picking up on this affair angle.

Not really, because that wasn't in an episode.  It was mentioned -- or almost mentioned -- in the DVD commentary for "Great Game."  Cumberbatch starts to describe a scene that had gotten cut, something like "... and then Sherlock found out that his father had been having -- am I allowed to talk about that?"  He and Gatiss come to the consensus that no, he really shouldn't, because they might use the idea in the future.  Ah -- here's a complete transcript, on another thread.

 

Anyhow, many of us were left with the impression that they had borrowed the "Daddy had an affair" idea from Young Sherlock Holmes.

[bedelia1984]

Wow, thank you Carol! I never heard that before.

 

So from what I gather from that thread, the feeling is that Mycroft had to look after Sherlock more, because perhaps both parents resented Sherlock for uncovering that affair? That's fascinating. It puts a whole new spin on their relationship for me. And their relationship with Sherlock too.

[J.P.]

You know what I realized? If Mycroft was cold as he wanted to be and as he made others believe, he would never be able to have a thought like "... care is not an advantage".

It implicates a delicate soul and fear of broken heart. Someone who does not have emotions wouldn't be afraid of them. (of course it's based on how I relate to the series)

[bedelia1984]

 If Mycroft was cold as he wanted to be and as he made others believe, he would never be able to have a thought like "... care is not an advantage".

 

 

I completely agree. Himself and Sherlock are so much the same in that respect. I was very struck in Sign of Three and Sherlock trying to threaten Mary's ex while describing himself as a sociopath... as a true sociopath probably wouldn't care about their friend's marriage enough to go to the trouble of scaring off an ex.

 

And Mycroft was the softie who actually ended up getting suckered into taking the parents to Les Mis, so who's to say he's not even worse than Sherlock.

[T.o.b.y]

Could Mycroft be jealous of John?

 

I mean, think about it. The only human side we know of with Mycroft is that he cares about Sherlock. Sherlock seems to be the only person he cares about or feels close to, and his allusion to "old times" suggests that for a long while, it was the two of them against the rest of the world (and against each other, apparently, but different story). Their relationship was strained, but Mycroft could always explain that away with how difficult and dysfunctional Sherlock is, how he was apparently incapable of having friends, of relating to anyone in any good kind of way.

 

Then John came along and became the brother Mycroft never was. And lo and behold, it turns out that Sherlock can be a friend and can relate to people (in his own way) and he goes and puts this little adopted family together for himself that Mycroft isn't really part of. If Mycroft is a human being after all, that has got to hurt at least a teeny little bit.

 

Considering this, The Fall having been "mostly Mycroft's idea" takes a much more sinister turn. Also how Mycroft is from the beginning trying to ridicule Sherlock about John or "warn" him about becoming "involved" with John's life.

 

If my theory is correct, I should probably feel sorry for Mycroft, but I don't.

[Shadow Dweller]

If Mycroft is really have that little amount of control upon his impulses then it is a wonder how he can work with the secret service.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Apparently I had never participated in this thread before.
Hope to get my view understood, sorry for horrendous grammar.
 
Mycroft is jealous with John. I can go behind that.
Further away, I see that Mycroft might be actually worry and at the same time grateful of having John around.
(Eventhough he is jealous of him)

Maybe Mycroft  had been stung before in the past. He might had relationship, he explored (not a virgin). Beside advanced thinking, I can imagine the two brothers lead quite a 'normal' life once upon a time. They might be awkward, social life is ghastly (it always is!), they might be misfits but they were not jaded yet.
Then something happened to Mycroft that changes his view totally about caring and sentiment. It's like body's reaction to diseases, what doesn't kill you make you stronger, they say.
He survived, but hit badly, as result, he builds extreme defense mechanism for immunity. He turns into someone who despises all those and think of them as weakness. He might even despises the parents for not teaching them that and for showing what he perceives as weakness.

Then there is his little brother.

Imo, Sherlock is the dearest to Mycroft. Sherlock is probably the closest he can relate to, someone with similar brilliance, and similar delicate former self. Beside what might happened to him before, I imagine Redbeard hit Mycroft harder, indirectly.

...

Have anyone ever encountered a situation when someone you know fights a terminal dissease..? they fight, they cry, they are going through hell. You think they are on the worst end...

Then you look at the spouse or their loved one.

They are the ones who constantly put up brave and confident face, the one who says that everything is going to be okay. It's far much harder and more difficult. Hardly, and when no one is looking, when they have chance to let their armor down (never in front of the one who is ill), it's far more heartbreaking. It's more hurting to them. I believe if it's possible, they would be more than willing to share the physical pain and suffering.

So Mycroft sees how Redbeard affects Sherlock. Again, it hurt him more to see Sherlock hurt.
So he wants it to never happens again. Teaching, showing, overprotecting and even mocking Sherlock is his way to protect Sherlock, caring is disadvantage, don't get involved. Alone protects you. Maybe he also presents it differently in language that gets to Sherlock but not necessary normal way, like Don't be weak. Don't be ordinary. Don't be stupid.
He is indeed worries about Sherlock constantly.

Then John comes along.

Mycroft worries that all defenses that Sherlock had built and had become is going to be compromised. He is going to be vulnerable again, which is something that he totally shouldn't for his line of work. (Agree, look what happened to him in SIB and HLV). 
However, Mycroft might also recognizes that normal human seems to have better mechanism to deal with those messy feelings. They are not immune, but they have learned better how to deal with that. So I believe he sincerely asks John's help with danger night, and of course he knows that John saves Sherlock in SIP, he is not an ordinary man. He thinks John can protects Sherlock differently, in his own way.

 

Although I'm sure he changes his mind in HLV.

That is big brother. They might not always choose the best way, but their instinct is to protect you. Maybe by being borderline overbearing, chasing away all your suitors because he deems them not suitable, maybe by making your life miserable, maybe by mocking, but that is a good big brother.

 

Always have your interest at heart.