Sherlock (the BBC character)

[Van Buren Supernova]

Is it the right time to add 'Hounds of Baskerville'? XD

[Mollock]

I am probably going to hijack this thread but, I wanted a clarification. In His Last vow when Molly slaps Sherlock, he takes a dig at her engagement saying he's sorry it broke off,"though I am grateful for the lack of a ring". What does he mean by he's grateful,for the lack of a ring? Is he just responding to the slaps in his usual self, or is he glad that Tom is gone from her life. Can't really understand what he meant. At first I didn't pay attention but then I saw the screen again and I heard him properly. Could anyone please clarify and help me understand what he meant. Thanks!

[J.P.]

If Molly slapped him with a ring on her finger, it would be more painful - at least it's what I think is the meaning, even if I doubt that in RL it would make much difference.  If she hit him with a fist, the gemstones could cut his face though.

[Arcadia]

Remember in Scandal when he deduced that the CIA guy had struck Mrs. H, because her blood was on his ring? Same kind of thing; hit someone with a hard substance in or on your hand, it will do more damage than just the hand alone. In real life I imagine it would make a difference depending on how hard you slapped someone, and Molly was pretty mad.
 
Of course, imo what he really meant was to be mean to her for daring to correct him, the git.
 
By the way, welcome to the forum! Glad to see you've jumped right in!

[Mollock]

Remember in Scandal when he deduced that the CIA guy had struck Mrs. H, because her blood was on his ring? Same kind of thing; hit someone with a hard substance in or on your hand, it will do more damage than just the hand alone. In real life I imagine it would make a difference depending on how hard you slapped someone, and Molly was pretty mad.

 

Of course, imo what he really meant was to be mean to her for daring to correct him, the git.

 

By the way, welcome to the forum! Glad to see you've jumped right in!

Thank you! Makes much more sense now!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, a ring really can make a difference.  My wedding ring is pretty substantial, and one day when Alex and I were horsing around, I accidentally hit him with it -- so what would have been just a playful little slap actually broke the skin a bit (it was unfortunately right over bone, which provided a hard surface behind the skin).

 

Molly's slap was anything but playful, so adding a ring to it could have done some noticeable damage -- especially if she got him on one of those cheekbones!

 

Welcome to the forum, Mollock! 

 

[Inge l-w]

Heavens! Now we have got this thread as well as the subtext one, the hijacked one and the rant one to pick the relationships to bits. One is certainly spoilt for choice! But the most amusing bit was about fan fiction writers.

Ariane de Vere has a tiny ficlet called Terror in Baker Street, which is very apt, as well as her fiftieth fan fiction piece in ff, which are absolutely spot on about fans and fan fiction writers. And she found the concept of Sherlock Quotations Hangman interesting. I just hope she decides to join this forum, even under a different alias!

As for rings, especially gem-encrusted ones and heavy engraved ones, they can be powerful deterents when they meet their target. It's not only Dr Watson who can use his fists.

[Mollock]

Yes, a ring really can make a difference. My wedding ring is pretty substantial, and one day when Alex and I were horsing around, I accidentally hit him with it -- so what would have been just a playful little slap actually broke the skin a bit (it was unfortunately right over bone, which provided a hard surface behind the skin).

 

Molly's slap was anything but playful, so adding a ring to it could have done some noticeable damage -- especially if she got him on one of those cheekbones!

 

Welcome to the forum, Mollock!

Thank you! but I am still really surprised he never stopped her. I mean he could have easily stopped her. He's Sherlock Holmes high or not high. And for Molly to do something like that, I am really excited to see how this would change their relationship dynamic, not for the bad though. Because someone actually slapped him. That was probably the first time in his life someone dared do it, and that too Molly Hooper. The Molly Hooper he never even noticed because she was just too ordinary.

[Inge l-w]

Hello, Mollock, even from your nickname we can "deduce" your OTP, but that's beside the point!

When it comes to Molly and Sherlock, things go very deep and even scary. He notices everything as a matter of course, so the first instance is the lipstick incident in SiP. He deliberately uses his charm on her in TBB to get what he wants, and she complies.

In TGG, she helps prop up the whole Moriarty as gay facade, while Sherlock pursues his investigation.

In SIB, she becomes the focus of attention through both Lestrade's reaction to her rather all-over-the-place dress sense (check out the gift bow stuck in her hair), and Sherlock's inability to keep from making his deductions public, thus forcing him in a false position by having to apologise to her, but he is true to character when the time comes to identify the non-Irene in the morgue, he barely notices her.

In TRF, she suddenly acquires more of a dynamic, through her perspicacity and his increasing vulnerability. That is the time Molly actually helps save his life.

In TEH, he wants to acknowledge his gratitude to her by giving her the gift of sharing one of his days with her, even goes so far as to propose dinner, but she seems to have moved on (although she declares :"Maybe it's just my type", and Tom is a taller version of Sherlock.

In SoT, she makes a token appearance, although there are her interaction with Tom and her wistful look at the very end, as she is one of the few to witness his lonely exodus.

It's in HLV where she plays a much bigger part, not only because he allows her to slap him, (sentiment), but also because his Mind Palace Molly is calm, collected and aids in his eventual survival.

On the whole, in episodes written by Mr Moffat, expect higher Molly/Sherlock interaction, in episodes written by Mr Gatiss, not so much, while those by Mr Thompson swing like Foucault's pendulum, from petty contribution to major assistance.

[besleybean]

Oh I don't know.

In Mark's Empty Hearse, we see some lovely interaction between Molly and Sherlock.

[Mollock]

Today in my literature class we had an interesting discussion on the character of Sherlock Holmes as seen on BBC's adaption of the original character. His past seems to have been an unexplored territory in the show. All sorts of theories came up as to why Sherlock is the way he is. Some thought he was just born that way, others thought his line of work required him to adopt that type of persona, and many more. I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I am just curious to know what you guys think as avid fans and readers of the of the show and the books.

[Arcadia]

Oh my, that is a oft-discussed subject around here! For myself, I think my view keeps slowly evolving as the writers keep dropping tiny hints here and there. Right now I think it's a combination of born that way and some unknown trauma in his youth, but I have no evidence, it just makes sense to me.

 

Haven't read that many of the stories but I get the impression there's even fewer answers there, so I'd still just be drawing conclusions based mostly on what makes sense to me. In other words, I don't have much of an answer, I'm afraid! Anyone else????

[J.P.]

Sherlock in the class? A dream come true, eh? :D

 

In my opinion Sherlock is mostly what his childhood with Mycroft made him. He IS above-average intelligent, but the techniques he uses, like the Mind Palace are something one can learn, as much as observation skills.

Imagine being called idiot all the time, trying to live up to Mycroft's abilities. Mycroft was not only much smarter than Sherlock, but also older, so Sherlock had practically no chances. The parents' role is still unknown, but we know they were isolated so the poor boy had no chance to compare himself with normal kids. Even as a grown up man Sherlock still tries to impress people (actually trying to impress Mycroft), as if he had to ensure himself he is smart at all. And the animosity between brothers is actually them repeating their childhood - each time Mycroft treats Sherlock like a stupid kid, it IMO makes Sherlock act like a 5 year old drama queen.

[Inge l-w]

Heavens, NO! I'd rather tackle one of Professor Hawking's lectures or read the General Theory or Relativity! (The other version is just Maths, so it's easier)! In point of fact, we discussed it elsewhere, THIS Sherlock is what Mr Moffat and Mr Gatiss have made of the original character, and he resembles the ACD Holmes in very few things, so overall, the only fixed point of your equation would be drama queen/puzzle solver in both this show and the 56 stories.

[J.P.]

A little addition that came to my mind - in the scene with the Cabbie, if you think of him as an incarnation of young Mycroft teasing young Sherlock - IMO it's no wonder that Sherlock almost killed himself. It's all Mycroft's fault. But then, as a kid himself - he didn't know better either.

 

Haven't we discussed EVERYTHING elsewhere already? :P

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

Haven't we discussed EVERYTHING elsewhere already? :P

 

We probably have, but what would we be if we didn't bring it up again on every possible thread that it could apply to and as many times as possible? We are Sherlockians (crazy) after all

[Mollock]

Sherlock in the class? A dream come true, eh? :D

 

In my opinion Sherlock is mostly what his childhood with Mycroft made him. He IS above-average intelligent, but the techniques he uses, like the Mind Palace are something one can learn, as much as observation skills.

Imagine being called idiot all the time, trying to live up to Mycroft's abilities. Mycroft was not only much smarter than Sherlock, but also older, so Sherlock had practically no chances. The parents' role is still unknown, but we know they were isolated so the poor boy had no chance to compare himself with normal kids. Even as a grown up man Sherlock still tries to impress people (actually trying to impress Mycroft), as if he had to ensure himself he is smart at all. And the animosity between brothers is actually them repeating their childhood - each time Mycroft treats Sherlock like a stupid kid, it IMO makes Sherlock act like a 5 year old drama queen.

I was fan girling in the class the entire time. Couldn't shut up.

 

I second your post totally. But in season 4, I would love it if they could shed some light on his background. The "caring is not an advantage" has been drilled in him since childhood, I believe and I think it has had its impact on Sherlock's mental state. Sometimes in the show you see flashes( more than flashes actually) of him caring, but as soon as he realizes what he's doing he suppresses those emotions and goes to back to being his normal self. it drives me nuts to no end. Mycroft as you mentioned is smarter than him, and I think it's a natural human instinct to emulate what your older siblings do. I guess that's probably why he acts the way he does, because he doesn't want Mycroft to think of him as a person who gets too involved in emotions, thus making him look weak in his eyes. That's probably the last thing Sherlock wants.

[Arcadia]

I can't begin to guess where I saw (or heard?) it, but I do remember either Moffat or Gatiss saying "Somehow, Mycroft is the key to Sherlock," so maybe they'll finally get around to explaining what that means. I just hope Mycroft doesn't become so central to the story that it pushes John aside.

[J.P.]

 

I can't begin to guess where I saw (or heard?) it, but I do remember either Moffat or Gatiss saying "Somehow, Mycroft is the key to Sherlock,"

They state it now and then. Could the sentence be from the Con?

 

I just hope Mycroft doesn't become so central to the story that it pushes John aside.

 

Oh, no. He is central to the story already, just as a big, fat (pun unintended) question mark with an umbrella.

 

 

The "caring is not an advantage" has been drilled in him since childhood, I believe and I think it has had its impact on Sherlock's mental state.

 

Mollock, what really hit me in the guts in HLV is that it turns out to be true at the end. We've got a longer discussion about it... somewhere.

[Arcadia]

 

I can't begin to guess where I saw (or heard?) it, but I do remember either Moffat or Gatiss saying "Somehow, Mycroft is the key to Sherlock,"

They state it now and then. Could the sentence be from the Con?

 

No, definitely further back than that. 

 

[Inge l-w]

A paraphrase of Mycroft being a key to Sherlock was uttered by Mr Gatiss in the commentary to the Great Game, when they discuss the two brothers' relationship. If it has been written down anywhere, I' m sorry, I don't know. Dear sfmpco is the one who usually unearths obscure articles and tidbits.

[Shadow Dweller]

Given that Sherlock have penchant for the truth, is it possible that the reason why he used to close himself off from 'ordinary' people and their noises is partially because he saw them as playing too much social games, which amount to lies on varying degrees?

[Arcadia]

Hmmm. In my opinion Sherlock is a master liar, so I can't see that being much of an issue for him. I think it's more to do with protecting himself on the one hand, and being bored with ordinary people on the other hand -- he finds himself and his hobbies more interesting.

[J.P.]

Yepp. I can relate to this.

Social games are boring and too complicated for the advantages they can give.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Agree, it's exhausting.

One social event that involves a lot of people would tire me as much as two days strenuous physical activity, especialy when I'm required to be nice and not hiding.

 

I ditto above regarding Sherlock.

He is trying to distance himself from feelings so that he is above that. He is hurt before, one that we know is Redbeard. He is also influenced by Mycroft, which I suspect also hurt before.

 

Anyway, it makes a lot of sense. Logically. Feelings only make us vulnerable. It's unreasonable, uncontrollable and irresponsible. But it is a defect that makes us human.