Introverts, how is your day?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Maybe next time she invites you, ask if it's OK if you come by for just a little while?

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

On 9/30/2020 at 3:12 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Maybe next time she invites you, ask if it's OK if you come by for just a little while?

C...carol... which side and thread are you on????? 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Uhh -- well, you had just said / implied that you see an advantage to attending this lady's barbeques, if only you could "sneak out early."  So I thought maybe it would help if you had already told the hostess (when she invited you) that you'd like to come, if she didn't mind you leaving early.  So that way you wouldn't have to sneak.

But I'm not sure that I understood your question, so if that answer's not adequate, please say so!

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

I don't think there is an option to sneak out early though. It's a dinner with a show, at the very least I have to stay during the show, and I suppose dinner is served at the same time. It doesn't help that it's not a show where you have to be silent, and even there is distance between seats, it's not single seater, so I have to share table with strangers, because I don't know anyone else, and pretty sure she won't be entertaining me all the time. I suppose there is no corner to hide. To be honest, I don't really know how it is, this place is heaven for me and dogs in the morning but at night it turns into something happening with nightlife etc etc. I've been around couple of time before covid but nothing too fancy and mostly intimate dinner, but group setting and show is not something I think I would enjoy. I can't even expect to cuddle and hang out with regular dogs that we have around in the morning, especially it's FnB establishment, pretty sure they would mind dogs wondering around. Maybe I could bring my dog, but above all, I really really don't feel like unnecessary socializing. Wait, it's beneficial to socialize, but arghhhhhh..

[J.P.]

Feeling like in a ivory tower. Corona is exploding in the area, we have first positive test in our office, the server at work is down since yesterday. My boss got fired… and I make my job locally, being in home office modus for two+ weeks now. All feel a bit distant. Next two weeks I'm on leave. Time to start that winter hibernation I think.

[Artemis]

I'm officially ignoring the rest of the year.

 

[Fantasy Lover]

I'm doing an internship currently, and of course I get the inevitable "do you have a boyfriend/ children?" bold of you to assume that I'm straight and want children. But in case of the latter question I just say no whereas in the former question I just say "yes, I have a partner" and everyone assumes it's a man, heteronormativity is so fun to mess with.

[Jen]

I've never understood that. People always ask these questions, and they think the answers are obvious. It should be "yes".  Yes, I have a boyfriend, yes, I have a chil or I want a child. Because I'm a woman.  I don't like this ... when I say no, I have no hild, I don't want kids either... No, I have no boyfriend... People don't understand that.  

And I say "soon as I find a partner..."  everyone thinks it will be a man. You're so right, Fantasy Lover! 

Heteronormativity is a strange concept, in my view... 🤔 Standards are a strange concept. Everybody should do that they want. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree that everybody should live as they see fit (assuming of course that they don't see fit to rob banks or whatever), and I think most people would agree with that, at least in general.  That doesn't stop people from making assumptions, though, and I'm not so sure that it should.

If people didn't make assumptions, they'd need to do one of three things:  1) Talk only about impersonal topics like the weather, or 2) phrase everything they say in the most general terms possible, or 3) start the conversation with a questionnaire.

So most people make assumptions instead -- they assume you are right-handed, straight, eat meat, drive a car, are on Facebook, vote the same way they do, share their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and so on.  This actually gives you the widest possible range of options rather than putting you on the spot -- you can let them assume what they want to assume, you can correct them (gently or otherwise) on selected items, you can tell them your life's story, or you can tell them what you think of people who make assumptions.    

 

[Jen]

This is rather true 😅 

The problem is that too often people judge us .. And that's just sad !! 

[Carol the Dabbler]

2 hours ago, Jen said:

The problem is that too often people judge us .. And that's just sad !!

But (to quote Moriarty) that's what people DO!!!  Thank goodness left-handers are no longer considered defective, but just about all of those other categories I mentioned are subject to judgmental attitudes -- and of course which side is "good" depends on who you're listening to.  *sigh*

 

[J.P.]

Left (actually both) handed, asexual introvert, not drinking alcohol.
The good thing - not having many contacts, I don't encounter many assumptions, but I could fill a Mycroft-style file on wrong assumptions because of "but all women…" Not that I care much. I do the same assumptions about other people. It's how our brains work to save energy.
I also don't bother people asking me about my accent or mispronounce my name.

[Carol the Dabbler]

4 hours ago, J.P. said:

I do the same assumptions about other people. It's how our brains work to save energy.

How very succinct of you -- thanks!

And yeah, I assume I do too, I just don't notice it.

 

[Artemis]

The awkward silence after I'm asked if I have a partner or children and I say "No" is deafening.  People just don't know what to say after that.  Sometimes I wish I could say "Yes" just to avoid it, but then I'd be lying and have to make up answers to the inevitable follow-up questions.

5 hours ago, J.P. said:

asexual introvert, not drinking alcohol.

^ Ditto there.  So many social activities revolve around drinking, it's easy to be excluded when you're a non-drinker.  That could be viewed as a positive thing when you're not a social person, but then it's hard to make friends when you do want to.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

16 minutes ago, Artemis said:

Sometimes I wish I could say "Yes" just to avoid it, but then I'd be lying and have to make up answers to the inevitable follow-up questions.

And then it could get real awkward when they invite your kids over to play with their kids.  Yup, better to just be brief but truthful in the first place, I think.  One advantage to getting older: people stop asking if you're planning to have kids!

16 minutes ago, Artemis said:

So many social activities revolve around drinking, it's easy to be excluded when you're a non-drinker.

Can't you just order a Virgin Mary or a tonic & twist or something?  Easy for me to say that now, though, when I used to order a cocktail even though I didn't particularly want one. I've found that it's becoming easier to say "no" (to just about any question) as I get older.  I even go to restaurants with friends and don't order anything if their food doesn't agree with me.  I just tell the server that I'm with friends but on a special diet (which is basically true, compared to what they serve), and none of them have ever objected.

 

[Artemis]

59 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Can't you just order a Virgin Mary or a tonic & twist or something?

I could, but it's a bit pointless, because if I'm not drinking then I'm not "having fun" like them.  And once they know I don't drink, they don't want to invite me again because it's a buzzkill.  I don't know if it's an age thing, I guess I'll find out one day.  I don't have a hard time saying no, but the trouble is that people generally don't want to spend time with you when you say no to things.  If I already had a friend group who knew and accepted me, that would be different.  But when it comes to making new friends, if I don't participate in a way that makes them feel comfortable then they lose interest.  I've tried to suggest other types of activities, even a cafe instead of a bar/club (hey, you're still drinking something!).  But people don't go for that and I half suspect it's because they're afraid of awkwardness if there's no alcohol involved.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

11 hours ago, Artemis said:

once they know I don't drink, they don't want to invite me again

Oh well, at least they're sparing you the experience of being surrounded by drunks that you don't even know very well.

11 hours ago, Artemis said:

I don't know if it's an age thing, I guess I'll find out one day. 

All I can say for sure is that my "party till you puke" co-workers were mostly in their twenties and thirties.

The best advice I can offer for having a group of friends is, don't move away.  I've done that several times, and each time it got harder to find new friends, apparently because the folks in my new location already *had* friends.

 

[Jen]

It's very difficult to find friends. I have never given up friends, but many friends have forsaken me... And I don't know why!!! 

 

 

I don't drink alcohol any more. It's not a problem, all are aware. 

[J.P.]

13 hours ago, Artemis said:

if I'm not drinking then I'm not "having fun" like them

Oh, if I drink enough to feel the influence, I can assure you I don't have - and I AM not fun to be with.
And drunk people make me aggressive. So it makes absolutely no sense participating in the "wet" social activities.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I rarely ever did drink enough to make me more than just a little mellow, but even then I didn't really see the point.  And I never was comfortable socializing with people who were a little too drunk to focus either their eyes or their attention.

So is the dislike of social drinking an introvert thing?  It occurs to me that it might be, because we introverts are said to value the quality of our social interactions, whereas alcohol is more likely to diminish the quality while stimulating the quantity of interaction -- more of an extrovert thing, perhaps.

 

[J.P.]

I cannot really say. Alc is said to make people more outcoming but it's definitely not the case with me.

[Artemis]

6 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Oh well, at least they're sparing you the experience of being surrounded by drunks that you don't even know very well.

Yeah, that's the way I look at it, lol.  Bars and clubs and intoxicated people aren't my thing anyway.

7 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

The best advice I can offer for having a group of friends is, don't move away.  I've done that several times, and each time it got harder to find new friends, apparently because the folks in my new location already *had* friends.

I have no plans of ever moving out of the area in my lifetime.  That doesn't stop everyone else from leaving though, lol.  In fact, all of my childhood classmates now live in other states.  Ironically, even though I've remained, it's now as if I'm living in a place where nobody knows me.

The majority of people have their core friend group set by the time they graduate high school.  It's difficult to make long-term friends with anyone after that point.

5 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

So is the dislike of social drinking an introvert thing?  It occurs to me that it might be, because we introverts are said to value the quality of our social interactions, whereas alcohol is more likely to diminish the quality while stimulating the quantity of interaction -- more of an extrovert thing, perhaps.

Definitely true for me.  Would make sense, generally speaking.  (Though obviously there are exceptions, as seen above.)

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

2 hours ago, Artemis said:

all of my childhood classmates now live in other states.  Ironically, even though I've remained, it's now as if I'm living in a place where nobody knows me.

Wow, that is so strange!  I moved back to central Indiana after thirty years away, and half of our graduating class (still or once again) lives here.  I don't see many of them very often, but I think most of the ones who live in our old hometown still socialize (the governor permitting) with at least a few others.

3 hours ago, Artemis said:

The majority of people have their core friend group set by the time they graduate high school.  It's difficult to make long-term friends with anyone after that point.

That's exactly my impression, yes -- though it's still not too difficult into one's twenties.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

On 11/12/2020 at 1:08 PM, Artemis said:

The awkward silence after I'm asked if I have a partner or children and I say "No" is deafening. 

That's what I get when they find out I don't want children. Follow by WHY??? Which I reply WHY NOT??

And then the speech about being complete, it's nature, family namesake, you'll regret it blablablabla. If I'm in the mood, I would expose that their real intention (most fussy ones who feel the need to lecture are) is to have someone taking care of them when they grow old, which I would throw it in their face that they are bloody selfish, at the end of all those being complete craps.

But I chose my battle, mostly I would walk away, time is too short to spend on them if they start this way.

Once I had to be on the road for two hours with someone who seems chatty, work purpose, he drove me to airport, and he made mistake of asking about children and religion, finding out he is driving a monster who don't have religion and don't want children, and insist I simply not into them to avoid longer heart to heart talk or exorcism. I have a lot of peace after that though, he had tough time finding another topic.

 

P.S Jen, like your new avatar! Again, I have problem remembering where it comes from. TRF? HOB?

[T.o.b.y]

I think it's really rude to ask people why they do or don't want / have kids, a partner, etc. The if questions are ok imho, that's just smalltalk, but why is no one's business. 

In my experience, there's no pleasing certain people either. If you have a partner, then why aren't you married. If you're married, then why don't you have kids. If you have kids then why don't you have more kids and if you have more kids then why do you have so many kids. Etc etc etc. 

As for heteronormativity, since heterosexual relationships are statistically the majority, I personally think it's acceptable to assume that as the default but when dealing with strangers, I usually try to stick to neutral phrasing like "are you in a relationship or are you single?" etc so that people don't assume I would respond badly to any answer outside the statistical "norm". 

Funnily enough, the one time I wasn't careful last month and just spouted something about "your wife" to a guy, I got a sour smile and "my husband!" back, so... 😅