The Johnlock Conspiracy

[Arcadia]

That's my take on it as well, and tbh I was really surprised that the tjlc fans didn't embrace the ending ... they got everything except the kiss! But they were too focused on getting everything they wanted, I guess. Hm. I'm afraid my sympathy doesn't extend that far.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I assume that disappointment falls under the heading of "if no explicit Johnlock, then it's been queerbaiting all along," and if put that way, the disappointment is quite understandable.  But I don't get the either/or thing.  The world is seldom that black-and-white.

[J.P.]

JL could actually be fun. And it was. As long as it stayed where it belongs - as an alternative universe thing. But even there some ppl lack a dose of distance and self-irony. It seems to be common in other fandoms too - the term ship wars seems to be quite old. Apparently no reason is too ridiculous to start fighting. :/

 

JLCT is a religion. With all terrifying consequences.

[Pseudonym]

The thing is I'd be quite happy to watch a Johnlock version of a Holmes series, as long as it wasn't exclusively and sensationally about them being gay - the important part would be making the fact that they are gay almost immaterial, it would need to be a relationship that just happens to be between two men. And don't have it be solely focused on that, the cases and the mysteries are what make Holmes Holmes, don't cut those out and have it become some romantic drama. 

 

I like what Mark said in an interview, about doing a detective show where the cop is the usual brilliant maverick and when he comes home it's to a husband rather than a wife, and that isn't a big deal. I'd like a Holmes series like that, seeing Sherlock and John get together without it having flashing neon 'GAY!' lights over it. I don't say that because I'm against it being gay obviously, but because the whole issue of representation means showing that things are normal and acceptable and not making things sensationalised. 

 

My problem with TJLC is that Moftiss explicitly said that this version of Sherlock was not going to be that, that there was no conspiracy, and yet people still refused to believe it and continued to set themselves up for a fall. Even after TFP aired there was a big conspiracy there was going to be a secret fourth episode where we finally see Sherlock and John snogging. Gah!

[J.P.]

…and there is still hope that there will be a S5 that fixes it all.

 

The makers were called liars every time they said it's not an endgame.

[Pseudonym]

Yup.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I like what Moftiss (or maybe it was Ian Hallard?) said about Sherlock being just one little show, and they can't load it down with explicitly representing every single minority and righteous cause. That would break its back.

[Pseudonym]

And people will always find something to rant about it seems. 

[Boton]

The thing is I'd be quite happy to watch a Johnlock version of a Holmes series, as long as it wasn't exclusively and sensationally about them being gay - the important part would be making the fact that they are gay almost immaterial, it would need to be a relationship that just happens to be between two men. And don't have it be solely focused on that, the cases and the mysteries are what make Holmes Holmes, don't cut those out and have it become some romantic drama. 

 

I like what Mark said in an interview, about doing a detective show where the cop is the usual brilliant maverick and when he comes home it's to a husband rather than a wife, and that isn't a big deal. I'd like a Holmes series like that, seeing Sherlock and John get together without it having flashing neon 'GAY!' lights over it. I don't say that because I'm against it being gay obviously, but because the whole issue of representation means showing that things are normal and acceptable and not making things sensationalised. 

 

My problem with TJLC is that Moftiss explicitly said that this version of Sherlock was not going to be that, that there was no conspiracy, and yet people still refused to believe it and continued to set themselves up for a fall. Even after TFP aired there was a big conspiracy there was going to be a secret fourth episode where we finally see Sherlock and John snogging. Gah!

 

ITA.  

 

I know on another thread I said I prefer Holmes without a consistent relationship in his life and Watson with a rotating cast of characters, but the more I think about it, the more I like this idea.  They key, as you say, is to make the Holmes/Watson relationship as un-sensational as humanly possible.  They just happen to be a romantic couple; no big deal.  Maybe you don't even know for sure until there's a throw-away scene where they go to bed in the same room or something, but no big helping of angst, no subtext of internalized homophobia, no pining or missed signals. Just a taken-for-granted relationship.

 

(Maybe, a few seasons in, you could get away with a more-angsty Three Garridebs remix, because by then the relationship would have become second nature and you would see how Holmes showing emotion in public was not his usual pattern.)

[Arcadia]

And then you'd have people ranting because they aren't shown having sex, or because they are, or whatever. People rant these days.

[Boton]

And then you'd have people ranting because they aren't shown having sex, or because they are, or whatever. People rant these days.

 

IMHO, we have trained people to expect everything to be tailored to their likes and dislikes, and no one knows how to entertain an idea that isn't exactly to their liking without deciding it's a personal affront.  

[Pseudonym]

If it had turned out to be Johnlock people would still rant there weren't enough people of colour in the cast - yup, I've seen that rant posted too. Or that it was misogynistic - we've all seen those rants. Or some other issue. 

[Arcadia]

...no one knows how to entertain an idea that isn't exactly to their liking without deciding it's a personal affront.  

 

 

I wouldn't say no one ... the ones who aren't affronted don't rant. :d

 

It does make you wonder, though, just what percentage of the population spends its time being affronted at one point or another. When you're spending time on the internet it seems like the vast majority ... but when I talk to people in the real world, it just seems like a handful are that po'd. And around here, they're mostly ranting against people of color, so I admit I tend not to respect their opinion very much.

[Boton]

Fair enough; "no one" was too broad of a statement.  Maybe it is just a few people (or many, but not most), and social media serves not just as an echo chamber but as an amplifier, so that those who are affronted get a lot of airplay for their position.  I don't run into a lot of people who are perpetually PO'd about anything other than local issues, but maybe that's because I try to make it clear I don't want to be in the middle of a fight about certain issues.

 

In any case, TJLC (not Johnlock in general) is an interesting phenomenon, because the argument seems to be based on a proof that uses facts that are demonstrably false, and then when those "facts" don't produce the desired result, people are just crushed.  Some of the analyses I've read proving "Johnlock is endgame" are really, really well done, but when the creators of the show say, "no, sorry, that's not there and the end will not be what you are hoping," I would think you have to go with what the creators say.  That makes it a bit different than discussing how female or minority characters are handled. 

 

One of the other elements of TJLC that bothers me is that it requires some really aggressive retconning.  It isn't enough to argue that the characters were set up in such a way that (at least until S3, maybe later) they could have wound up together.  You have a lot of arguments that hinge on "well, Sherlock *is disgusted* by touching Janine;" "John *hates* Irene because she took Sherlock's attention away;" "John was *forced* to marry Mary." Some of these arguments get very close to rewriting the show to support a point of view.

 

Oh, well.  Whatever.  

 

[Pseudonym]

It's the tea drinking that gets me. Every time it's the tea drinking. 

[Boton]

Definitely the tea drinking.

 

(Have you ever watched the show looking for the tea drinking so you can see the "proof?"  I made it through about half an episode trying to do that before I went nuts.)

[Pseudonym]

No, someone posted it, mentioned the tea drinking, and I immediately knew it would make me want to bang my head against the table. 

 

As an aside, I saw mentioned somewhere that in fic Sherlock barely ever makes tea, John is always the one making tea, offering tea, but in the series we don't see John making tea once. It's always Sherlock. (Though I'm not sure that's true, I'm sure there's a scene where John offers Mycroft tea?)

[Boton]

Yeah, that's one of my pet peeves in fan fiction is John's obsessive tea-making.  I can't remember him making tea, but even if he does, he doesn't do it every time he walks past the kitchen!  My other big pet peeve is John's insistence on never taking medication on an empty stomach. Again, in some cases, it makes sense, but in fic, John doesn't allow Sherlock to have so much as a couple of paracetamol without a granola bar and a full bottle of water.  (It is so pervasive, I've even noticed Wilson doing it to House in House fics.)

[Pseudonym]

I can't say I've noticed the second one - but I bet it's going to leap out at me all the time now. 

 

'Throwing' money at the taxi driver is the one that's me irritating me recently. 

[T.o.b.y]

This does not mention Sherlock but it's a very interesting article describing a man's perspective on male friendship, emotional intimacy and Shipping:

 

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/what-men-really-need/

[J.P.]

Interesting indeed. What still wonders me though - slash and male shipping seems to be a domain of women. So the connection to the lack of male intimate friendships as a male problem is a bit not… existent.

[T.o.b.y]

Interesting indeed. What still wonders me though - slash and male shipping seems to be a domain of women. So the connection to the lack of male intimate friendships as a male problem is a bit not… existent.

But the fear of being misunderstood as gay might be one of the reasons why intimate male friendships are difficult to form, mightn't it?

[Pseudonym]

It used to be fine for Victorian gentleman to go for a stroll arm in arm around a park but somewhere along the way men touching each other for any extended period of time seemed to mean gay.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Regarding fanfic-John always making tea, is that maybe just a natural side effect of the assumption that John is the "wife" in the relationship? I can certainly see where that comes from -- he's obviously the long-suffering one and the social liaison. And he's the one who keeps track of the groceries. So I guess the tea-making would seem to follow.

 

I can't offhand think of any episodes where John actually makes tea, though. Mrs. Hudson seems to make it more often than anybody, and of course Sherlock makes it for Moriarty. There is one episode where Sherlock seems to assume that John is making tea, though (the head-in-the-fridge scene), so perhaps John actually does brew a lot when we're not looking.

 

Is the tea=gay thing mostly in American-written fanfics? I can kinda see how that could happen, since hot tea is kind of a woman's drink over here. Obvious fallacy to apply that to British people, of course, but some Americans may not be aware of that.

 

Regarding TJLC, I've been wondering how much of it is fueled by the obvious popularity of Johnlock porn. There are surely some genuine gay activists in the mix, but I just wonder how much of the total is good old-fashioned lust masquerading as social concern.

[Pseudonym]

To be fair I've never seen the tea-as-a-sign in a fanfic, it's just something that seems to crop up in any really bad 'proof Sherlock is gay' article.