The Johnlock Conspiracy

[Pseudonym]

I get what you mean, being leered at when you're just going about your business. And I hate having workmen in the house when I'm home alone, even if they aren't leery.

 

I think if John was remotely homophobic he wouldn't have moved in with Sherlock who he clearly thought was gay at that point. But I agree uncomfortable would fit. I've been mistaken for gay before and I didn't like it, not because there's anything wrong with it, just because I'm not.

 

There's a question, could John get someone as hot as Sherlock if they weren't friends? ;)

[Pseudonym]

You like being cat called? Really?

[Arcadia]

Plus, I still think part of John's ire is a meta joke:  Most modern readers chuckle a little when reading ACD because they think Watson seems to be sweet on Holmes since he's so adoring of everything Holmes does.  I think Moffatt (I'll lay this one at his feet, although I don't know) chuckled over that as a kid and had a great time having John getting irate because everyone assumes "Watson" is gay and John doesn't know where all this is coming from and keeps having to correct people.

I agree, and I think Moftiss even said something to that effect. I also think that Gatiss (belatedly) realized they used that joke a little too often, based on something he said in the TEH commentary. I notice that's the last time they use it.

 

 

JP said

Which made me think that's this guy felt like women often do in presence of men. 

 

How so?  I've not ever felt uncomfortable around men, so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

Never been in a situation when you felt exposed as an object of sexual interest (even a potential one?) Never felt uncomfortable on a train or at a bus stop, while alone with a strange guy oggling at you? Being hit on in a uncomfortable way?

Yup. That's guaranteed to make me twitch, knowing I'm being evaluated as a sexual object and not as a person.

[Boton]

You like being cat called? Really?

 

Yes.  Absolutely adore it.  If I can get a group of construction workers hooting at me, I will definitely slow down.  If I'm feeling sassy, I might wave and yell back.  Makes my entire freaking day.

 

I don't mind being viewed as a sexual object at all.  In the vast majority of these encounters, how else would they judge me? We're not having a conversation - if we were, I guarantee, I'd be taken seriously.  I love it when I don't have to do anything more difficult than look my best and walk with confidence to attract attention.  I find it fun.  YMMV, of course.

[Carol the Dabbler]

You like being cat called? Really?

 

Yes.  Absolutely adore it.  If I can get a group of construction workers hooting at me, I will definitely slow down.  If I'm feeling sassy, I might wave and yell back.  Makes my entire freaking day.

 

You must feel very safe in your surroundings, then.  I don't often walk past construction sites these days, as I live in the country and am generally on wheels, but regardless of whether I feel complimented or slimed in such a situation, I keep my feelings very much to myself.  I neither slow down nor speed up, I just continue to go about my business as though I hadn't heard them.  To do otherwise would seem like inviting attention of a more personal nature, which I would certainly not care to do with a complete stranger.

[Pseudonym]

Ditto, I pretend I haven't heard anything.

[Boton]

 

You like being cat called? Really?

 

Yes.  Absolutely adore it.  If I can get a group of construction workers hooting at me, I will definitely slow down.  If I'm feeling sassy, I might wave and yell back.  Makes my entire freaking day.

 

You must feel very safe in your surroundings, then.  I don't often walk past construction sites these days, as I live in the country and am generally on wheels, but regardless of whether I feel complimented or slimed in such a situation, I keep my feelings very much to myself.  I neither slow down nor speed up, I just continue to go about my business as though I hadn't heard them.  To do otherwise would seem like inviting attention of a more personal nature, which I would certainly not care to do with a complete stranger.

 

 

I do feel safe.  It's also a bit of stereotyping on my part.  If I had to pick the "type" of man I feel most comfortable and safe around, it would be a blue collar worker handling heavy tools.  

[Inge l-w]

Dear Boston, it must be the teacher mentality for both of us: I seem to have an invisible protective screen around me all the time, in class, at home, walking back from the train station, so if a member of the other sex gets up enough courage to wolf-whistle, I straighten my back, flash a smile and get home in a better frame of mind: for my better half to find out why, of course.

But Mr Gatiss did say in the commentary to TEH that they had laid that particular ghost concerning Mrs Hudson's ideation.

[Boton]

Dear Boston, it must be the teacher mentality for both of us

But Mr Gatiss did say in the commentary to TEH that they had laid that particular ghost concerning Mrs Hudson's ideation.

 

That could definitely be part of it.  

 

Yes, thank heavens they've gotten over the jokes about Mrs. Hudson misunderstanding John's sexuality.  In the first place, that was at least one such joke too many, and for another, I think we learned in S4 that she's just not that dumb!

[T.o.b.y]

:-D I just don't get cat called. Once there was construction at my school and the workers hooted as I went by but it soon turned out they didn't mean me but my mother. Who just smiled and gave a very dignified, Queen of England sort of little wave.

[Arcadia]

Ha. The same thing happened to me, when I was about 12. I was scandalized ... that's my mom! :d But she just ignored them, which is why I assume that's the "proper" response, I suppose.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Beside feel safe, maybe you also don't experience it too often until you are sick of that.

 

I am way too sick of that because I got it since I was very young. Not only blue collar workers (they actually have much smaller percentage in my scenario) but passerby on the street, classmates, working environments and all sorts. I blame it on places, cultures and of course individuals. It's not unusual to spend hours on public transport and guy sitting opposite kept saying stuffs to you. But I do what most of you do, ignore, turn on my b*tch face, regardless how much I want to punch them in the face, it's normally not wise to do so, as I would most probably get into unwanted trouble. But there were times when I was having bad day or in bad mood, I actually walked over to approach the cat caller and asked them what was their problem. Some just kept quiet, some said sorry they didn't mean bad and there was one time this jerk actually thought it's okay to try and threatened me further, although he finally backed out (oh he was a security in a hotel, and it's a reputable, not shady hotel btw).

 

Long story short, I dislike it a lot and it had stopped being funny to me since long time ago. I imagine it would be much worse for better dressed females (more womanly? Nicer sexier looking? Not sure the term) because I basically got it just with shabby shirt and jeans. Luckily I stay in much safer places and it happens less.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, thank heavens they've gotten over the jokes about Mrs. Hudson misunderstanding John's sexuality.  In the first place, that was at least one such joke too many, and for another, I think we learned in S4 that she's just not that dumb!

 

I agree -- and yet as soon as John said, "I've met someone," I pre-quoted Mrs. Hudson saying "What's his name?"  That one was kinda necessary, I think.  To omit it would have left a glaring hole in the dialog.

 

But I'm glad they've decided to let it rest in the future.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I come to realize that Johnlock's syndrome are actually quite common in other series too, although I'm not sure how far they go.

 

 

warning: no real spoiler, but could be, about Hannibal, Person of Interest and Breaking Bad below.

 

 

 

 

I watched through Hannibal without thinking about any of that (I am very thick in this area anyway) until Bluebell mentioned it in the thread that there is Hannigram (those kind of couple naming), then I looked back and noticed some clues. To me, beside one scene that can be interpreted both ways, everything else is very subtle. Yet when I read the explanations, they actually make quite a bit of sense eventhough it's arguable from different point of view too.

 

Then Person of Interest, after finishing the series, I went on to read more and very surprised with some fan arts (gah) of the two male leads when I googled their character's names.

 

Maybe the one that is not (although I don't try to find out beside quick google of character's name) is male leads of Breaking Bad's characters (maybe age/generation differences and mentor-student relationship counts).

[Pseudonym]

God yea, pairing up male characters in fandom has always been a thing (Harry/Draco, Dean/Castiel are a couple more that leap to mind), but I think the difference is people believing it was actually going to happen in the show. 

[Shadow Dweller]

*grins* Bromance all the way for John & Sherlock. After TFP my not so innocent fan-heart think that mystrade have more potential to be a reality off the screen than johnlock.

[T.o.b.y]

I used to hate the word "bromance", but I must admit it fits the relationship between John and Sherlock pretty well. Doesn't mean I am going to start using it but I am ready to admit it is not a pointless creation.

[Boton]

God yea, pairing up male characters in fandom has always been a thing (Harry/Draco, Dean/Castiel are a couple more that leap to mind), but I think the difference is people believing it was actually going to happen in the show. 

 

And the original, Kirk/Spock.

 

I wonder why that kind of extra-canonical pairing is a thing? I mean, I know that shipping M/F pairings is also a thing, but that's usually at least somewhat supported by the "will they or won't they" hints in the actual show.  What is it about M/M pairings that make them compelling?  Is it that we culturally don't have a satisfactory way of expressing male affection in a bromance, so we need to take it to an arena that is more easily understood?

[Carol the Dabbler]

God yea, pairing up male characters in fandom has always been a thing (Harry/Draco, Dean/Castiel are a couple more that leap to mind), but I think the difference is people believing it was actually going to happen in the show. 

 

And the original, Kirk/Spock.

 

Or the original original, Holmes/Watson -- though I don't believe that the "slash" punctuation had acquired that meaning  & usage back then.

[Caya]

If you want to follow this to before the literal "slash", though, we can go back a lot farther than Holmes/Watson. No idea who was the first slash-without-slash couple, though, Achilleus/Patroklos maybe (iirc, and that's not sure cause it's been a while, Homer never states explicitly that they were lovers but the interpretation was pretty common).

[Carol the Dabbler]

Did Homer inspire fanfic, then? Or are you just talking about the literary criticism of that day?

 

In all fairness, Boton (no, no, it's not "Boston," you silly spell check!) as I was saying, Boton was absolutely correct in one regard. The term "slash" originated within Trek fandom, in reference to Kirk/Spock. For anyone not familiar with US punctuation terminology, the "/" symbol is called a "slash" here. One can only wonder what the effect might have been on the genre if it had arisen in the UK instead, and therefore called "stroke" fiction.

[Pseudonym]

I'd call it a forward slash rather than a stroke. Though plenty of the slash fanfic I've read has stroking in it. ;)

[Van Buren Supernova]

I'd call it a forward slash rather than a stroke. Though plenty of the slash fanfic I've read has stroking in it. ;)

Sweet fancy moses!

[Boton]

 One can only wonder what the effect might have been on the genre if it had arisen in the UK instead, and therefore called "stroke" fiction.

 

 

I'd call it a forward slash rather than a stroke. Though plenty of the slash fanfic I've read has stroking in it. ;)

 

It is 8:45 am here, and you guys have already won the internet for the day.  I will now forever be thinking of this as "stroke" fiction.   :P

[J.P.]

What about \ backslash? :P