The Johnlock Conspiracy

[Boton]

To be fair I've never seen the tea-as-a-sign in a fanfic, it's just something that seems to crop up in any really bad 'proof Sherlock is gay' article. 

 

I've read those elaborate proofs that you can tell the intent of a scene depending on what beverage the person is holding/drinking (tea = gay, coffee = het, wine = sex).  Letting aside the fact that you are stacking the deck any time you have a show set in the UK that labels tea as an indication of gayness, no one ever seems to mention that when Sherlock and John go to CAM World News to see Janine (and CAM), not only are they both drinking coffee, but Sherlock actively hands his cup of coffee to John.  Clearly, he is emphasizing his own heterosexuality and making John literally come to grips with it before they go see Janine.   :D

[Pseudonym]

Of course, obviously it is the only explanation. ;)

 

I don't know when drinks developed some sort of obscure underground language like flowers. Do different types of wine signify different sexual acts? No, no, I don't want to know. 

[J.P.]

Regarding TJLC, I've been wondering how much of it is fueled by the obvious popularity of Johnlock porn. There are surely some genuine gay activists in the mix, but I just wonder how much of the total is good old-fashioned lust masquerading as social concern.

 

I have a problem to understand how pornography can possibly serve any social concern.

[Arcadia]

This does not mention Sherlock but it's a very interesting article describing a man's perspective on male friendship, emotional intimacy and Shipping:

 

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/what-men-really-need/

 

Nice. Lots of good points in there. No idea if any of it is true. I look at the men I know well, and they run the gamut from social to virtually isolated, so I'm fairly sure one's personality is a big factor in there too. Plus, so much of what he described as male behavior describes me; and last I looked, I'm still a girl. Now that I think on it, I think some women tend to become more lonely as they age, too. And some don't.

 

It used to be fine for Victorian gentleman to go for a stroll arm in arm around a park but somewhere along the way men touching each other for any extended period of time seemed to mean gay.

 

Yeah. :( I wonder if the way American pop culture inundated the world with TV and movies has anything to do with that? I remember when we first moved to Thailand in the early '60's, my Dad just couldn't get over see men walking down the street holding hands. To his very mainstream American eyes it was shocking, but it was perfectly acceptable to the Thais. I wonder if it still is.

 

Of course, obviously it is the only explanation. ;)

 

I don't know when drinks developed some sort of obscure underground language like flowers. Do different types of wine signify different sexual acts? No, no, I don't want to know.

 

I'll tell you anyway, in brief :P ... it's got something to do with some French novel with a (supposedly?) gay subtext that more or less classified all British men as gay because they drank tea. Something like that. Once I started reading about it, I tried to erase it from my brain. But that's the source, apparently.

 

I think that's the thing that repels me the most about tjlc ... it seems to me that so many parts of it rely on stereotyping people and their behavior. I find that rather ironic, to say the least.

[Artemis]

I've read those elaborate proofs that you can tell the intent of a scene depending on what beverage the person is holding/drinking (tea = gay, coffee = het, wine = sex).  Letting aside the fact that you are stacking the deck any time you have a show set in the UK that labels tea as an indication of gayness, no one ever seems to mention that when Sherlock and John go to CAM World News to see Janine (and CAM), not only are they both drinking coffee, but Sherlock actively hands his cup of coffee to John.  Clearly, he is emphasizing his own heterosexuality and making John literally come to grips with it before they go see Janine.   :D

 

 

Also Sherlock has coffee in his opening scene in ASiP, and John has some in THoB.  Sherlock takes his black with two sugars, John doesn't take sugar.  I wonder what that means in TJLC land.

 

Mrs. Hudson always brings Sherlock his morning tea, does that mean something too?

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

... so much of what he described as male behavior describes me; and last I looked, I'm still a girl. Now that I think on it, I think some women tend to become more lonely as they age, too. And some don't.

 

I think that's probably one unfortunate consequence of our mobile culture (meaning people frequently moving from one place to another, nothing to do with phones). Seems like every time I've moved to a new place, I've made fewer friends, apparently because people my age there already *had* friends. People who stay put can presumably just keep the same friends (at least till the friends start dying off). Now that I'm back in Indiana I've reconnected with some of my classmates and such, but have made only a few new friends, despite doing my best (such as it is!) to meet people.

 

On the other hand, my brother is living only a stone's throw from the house he grew up in, and yet he reports losing touch with his old friends as well. Maybe you're right, it's somehow age-related.

[Artemis]

I think that's probably one unfortunate consequence of our mobile culture (meaning people frequently moving from one place to another, nothing to do with phones). Seems like every time I've moved to a new place, I've made fewer friends, apparently because people my age there already *had* friends. People who stay put can presumably just keep the same friends (at least till the friends start dying off). Now that I'm back in Indiana I've reconnected with some of my classmates and such, but have made only a few new friends, despite doing my best (such as it is!) to meet people.

On the other hand, my brother is living only a stone's throw from the house he grew up in, and yet he reports losing touch with his old friends as well. Maybe you're right, it's somehow age-related.

 

I've lived in the same state my whole life, but around here it seems that most people's friends are friends they made in school.  If you're someone like me, who didn't make friends in school, it's really difficult to make new friends no matter what you do.  And the older I get the harder it is to even find someone open to a new friendship.  Especially as a single person without children.

 

(But it probably has more to do with me being me than any other factor.  I've never been one to make friends easily, and I don't expect it to get any easier with age.)

 

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Being near a major city, I make new friends periodically (some deeper than others) I also have some friends from my school days but not that many even though I'm in the same area I grew up in.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Plus, so much of what he described as male behavior describes me; and last I looked, I'm still a girl.

Me too. Although I didn’t do that thoroughly, never forget there is possibility that we may not be well endowed. XD

  

Now that I think on it, I think some women tend to become more lonely as they age, too. And some don't.

 

I don’t think it’s gender related, it’s probably the lifestyle and nature of friends. People get more selective as we get older and we tend to know ‘what we like’ in term of activities and people. I feel much more social and receptive when I was younger, although still below average, but I made more efforts.

I think things change a lot when we start working. For some, it takes out too much time that we barely have time to socialize and meet new people, beside being exhausted and want to be alone at the end of the day. In younger days, education time etc, it’s relatively easier to find people who share the same passions and get along with them. But as adult, priority changes. People have different aspirations; family, money, power.

‘Potential’ friend that you meet (likely at work consider the time spent) could stab you in the back, someone very competitive with you or possibly try to manipulate you, or it’s awkward because of rank and age difference. The line could be blurred between professional and personal. And if, there is good social life outside work, like bonding over hobbies, it needs much more from just bonding to develop into friendship because, not only between men, it could be extremely hard to suggest or accept a hang out. I wouldn’t do that as own initiative, but I might do that if someone (that I’m okay with) ask me to include him/her should I do something fun because they want to try. Anyway, that is also because activities is the main thing, there are things to do instead of trying to (possibly awkwardly) 'connect.'

 

Mostly, I’m getting out of touch with previous friends in rapid rate, as the way to continue to keep in touch with them is by social media which I don’t do, and I don’t really make new ones. My effort is mostly very passive and somehow I consciously try not to get too close, so that I can still safely get out whenever it’s uncomfortable or demanding. Don’t even do regular texting or emails for awhile, and even avoiding calls when I don’t feel like chatting and never call back. Don’t think I get lonelier though. But it's probably too soon to tell.

 

Anyway, regarding Johnlock.

Since I don’t get in touch with things out there, which is good for my sanity (those things you guys mentioned, is it in fanfics? Throwing money, paracetamol etc? If yes, but why you subject yourself to read those anyway, is it curiosity?) I don’t know how bad is that world out there. Is it? Are there still attacks on actors and showmakers, or are those merely harmless works and opinions? I always feel like DeJavu coming to this thread, and I'd be surprised if those insults continue until now, but anything is possible.

And while I don’t think I’m gay for my daily tea and straight when I’m sleepy and load myself with coffee, I feel bad for those genuine Johnlock shippers who are overshadowed by the rest who give them the bad name. As mentioned, there are many with legit explanations too and for all we know, maybe they are also repelled with the TJLC, and hesitate to speak up because of possible associations.

[Pseudonym]

I haven't had a chance to read the article yet, but for friends - I've lost contact with most of my friends over the years, me moving away, other people moving away, just drifting apart. Working mostly on my own means I don't meet anyone through work, and people I met through my last job were very much casual friends, I went out with them a few times, were friendly in work, but when I left we didn't really keep in touch. I'm in two minds whether to join some groups to get more friends or not. On the one hand seems like a good idea, on the other hand it's a) awkward, and b) I just don't know that I have the time or energy. I often don't get home until late when I'm exhausted anyway. I'm also one of those people who will often watch a phone ringing rather than answering it, I hate talking on the phone.  

 

I enjoy reading fics, I like all the different versions of the characters, all of the 'what ifs' you can see play out. If someone happens to throw money at a cabbie half way through a great story I just roll my eyes and ignore it. I think part of the joy of fics is laziness that I don't need to learn who John and Sherlock are, just these versions of them, plus it's free and there's some fantastically well written stuff out there. I do steer clear of any long written analyses of the show, those tend to just annoy me. 

 

As for the meaning of drinks, I should have known the dastardly French were involved somehow.

[Boton]

 

Regarding TJLC, I've been wondering how much of it is fueled by the obvious popularity of Johnlock porn. There are surely some genuine gay activists in the mix, but I just wonder how much of the total is good old-fashioned lust masquerading as social concern.

 

I have a problem to understand how pornography can possibly serve any social concern.

 

 

 

I think what Carol was saying is that a lot of women enjoy M/M erotica, and it is easy for them to want to see their favorite ship become "real" in the show because that makes the erotica more plausible.  But, there's a stigma against simply saying, "Hey, I want John and Sherlock to get together because they're both hot men and I like to watch hot men together."  It is much more socially acceptable to say, "I want John and Sherlock to get together because we don't have enough strong gay relationships portrayed on TV." 

 

 

 

Anyway, regarding Johnlock.

Since I don’t get in touch with things out there, which is good for my sanity (those things you guys mentioned, is it in fanfics? Throwing money, paracetamol etc? If yes, but why you subject yourself to read those anyway, is it curiosity?) 

 

 

I was the one with the paracetamol; I come across these things in fan fics.

 

For me, I put up with some of these tropes because I love to read stories with a medical plot line (so, H/C stuff), and it is very hard to avoid these tropes.  Like Pseud, if I'm in the middle of an otherwise wonderful story and John insists that Sherlock have a snack in order to take a couple of pain pills, I just roll my eyes and move on. 

 

A lot of people who write medical stories also have them end up in a romance, so I wind up reading a lot of Johnlock whether I wish to or not. Many times, I'll skip those parts on subsequent reads, or I'll just imagine them not happening and conjure up my own ending to the story.  LIke Pseud pointed out, fan fiction is sort of a lazy way to enjoy a story, in that you already know the characters and you've already picked out (by virtue of the tags and description) the sort of scenario you want to read, so part of the price for that is putting up with some tropes you don't particularly like.  For me, it takes an awful lot of stupidly-placed granola bars and bottles of water to get me to stay out of a fic where Sherlock is shot or injured or otherwise hurt in the line of duty.  

[Arcadia]

Also Sherlock has coffee in his opening scene in ASiP,

Ahh, but it's brought to him by Molly, a woman, and he grimaces when he tastes it ... a clear sign he's not interested in women.

 

and John has some in THoB.

Proof that he's not gay after all ... he's bi. Only explanation.

 

Sherlock takes his black with two sugars, John doesn't take sugar.  I wonder what that means in TJLC land.

It means something, but thank god I've forgotten what. That may well have been the point when I stopped reading.

 

 

 

Now that I think on it, I think some women tend to become more lonely as they age, too. And some don't.

 

I don’t think it’s gender related, it’s probably the lifestyle and nature of friends. People get more selective as we get older and we tend to know ‘what we like’ in term of activities and people. I feel much more social and receptive when I was younger, although still below average, but I made more efforts.

I think things change a lot when we start working. For some, it takes out too much time that we barely have time to socialize and meet new people, beside being exhausted and want to be alone at the end of the day. In younger days, education time etc, it’s relatively easier to find people who share the same passions and get along with them. But as adult, priority changes. People have different aspirations; family, money, power.

‘Potential’ friend that you meet (likely at work consider the time spent) could stab you in the back, someone very competitive with you or possibly try to manipulate you, or it’s awkward because of rank and age difference. The line could be blurred between professional and personal. And if, there is good social life outside work, like bonding over hobbies, it needs much more from just bonding to develop into friendship because, not only between men, it could be extremely hard to suggest or accept a hang out. I wouldn’t do that as own initiative, but I might do that if someone (that I’m okay with) ask me to include him/her should I do something fun because they want to try. Anyway, that is also because activities is the main thing, there are things to do instead of trying to (possibly awkwardly) 'connect.'

 

Mostly, I’m getting out of touch with previous friends in rapid rate, as the way to continue to keep in touch with them is by social media which I don’t do, and I don’t really make new ones. My effort is mostly very passive and somehow I consciously try not to get too close, so that I can still safely get out whenever it’s uncomfortable or demanding. Don’t even do regular texting or emails for awhile, and even avoiding calls when I don’t feel like chatting and never call back. Don’t think I get lonelier though. But it's probably too soon to tell.

 

In my case, I have more friends now than I've ever had at once, and I think it's for two reasons: one, I've lived longer here than I've lived anywhere else. We were always on the move when I was a kid, and I was shy ... took me a long time to make friends. Still does. But I've stayed in one spot, and so have the friends I've managed to find. Two, I think I've changed ... I'm more willing to be social than I used to be, and I'm more confident about inviting people to join in. Had to learn how from one of my friends, actually.

 

But I still have only one or two CLOSE friends; you know, the ones you enjoy most and tell anything to. I say one or two because I think one of them is drifting away. Hurts.  :(

 

As for the meaning of drinks, I should have known the dastardly French were involved somehow.

But of course! :D

[Boton]

This does not mention Sherlock but it's a very interesting article describing a man's perspective on male friendship, emotional intimacy and Shipping:

 

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/what-men-really-need/

 

Thanks for linking the article, Toby.  I really liked this part:

 

 

In a perverse way, rounding up close friendships to romance ends up reinforcing some toxic tropes of masculinity. It further codifies the idea that emotional intimacy is by definition romantic or sexual. In this mindset, all forms of emotional intimacy are de facto romantic. This, in turn, limits men, particularly straight men, in the relationships they have available to them.

Not because they are afraid of being – or being perceived as –  homosexual but because they don’t want a romantic relationship, just an intimate one. They are told over and over again that this kind of friendship doesn’t exist. It’s eros or nothing.

 

That really encapsulates what I think is the "dark side" of shipping M/M couples.  Roughly speaking:

 

• It makes the relationship too "high stakes."  In order to show affection and love, you must be in a romantic relationship because a strong male friendship simply isn't an option.  If there's no other option than being alone or being in a romantic relationship, no wonder RL men are often in positions where they have one romantic relationship and then nothing else; the other category through which they would find support is simply not available.
• It cheapens possible romantic relationships.  If two guys showing affection for one another is automatically a romance, and nothing else exists, it downplays the importance and special nature of having a romantic relationship.  
• It allows female shippers to infantilize male affection.  "Oh, isn't that cute.  Steve and Bucky would die for one another; we know what that really means.  Now we just need to see them kiss."

[Pseudonym]

Hm, bit torn about this article. I identify a lot more with what it says are male problems than the way it says women supposedly are. I'm not sure those problems are wholly masculine problems rather than just modern problems. Not all, but a lot of them.

[Arcadia]

 

This does not mention Sherlock but it's a very interesting article describing a man's perspective on male friendship, emotional intimacy and Shipping:

 

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/what-men-really-need/

 

Thanks for linking the article, Toby.  I really liked this part:

 

In a perverse way, rounding up close friendships to romance ends up reinforcing some toxic tropes of masculinity. It further codifies the idea that emotional intimacy is by definition romantic or sexual. In this mindset, all forms of emotional intimacy are de facto romantic. This, in turn, limits men, particularly straight men, in the relationships they have available to them.

Not because they are afraid of being – or being perceived as –  homosexual but because they don’t want a romantic relationship, just an intimate one. They are told over and over again that this kind of friendship doesn’t exist. It’s eros or nothing.

 

That really encapsulates what I think is the "dark side" of shipping M/M couples.  Roughly speaking:

• It makes the relationship too "high stakes."  In order to show affection and love, you must be in a romantic relationship because a strong male friendship simply isn't an option.  If there's no other option than being alone or being in a romantic relationship, no wonder RL men are often in positions where they have one romantic relationship and then nothing else; the other category through which they would find support is simply not available.
• It cheapens possible romantic relationships.  If two guys showing affection for one another is automatically a romance, and nothing else exists, it downplays the importance and special nature of having a romantic relationship.  
• It allows female shippers to infantilize male affection.  "Oh, isn't that cute.  Steve and Bucky would die for one another; we know what that really means.  Now we just need to see them kiss."

Those are some good points, and it would be interesting to get some men's take on this.

 

I grew up with all those cowboy buddy and police buddy shows, and I didn't even know being gay was possible until I was an adult ... so it seems perfectly normal to me for guys to be good friends with each other without attributing any sexual attraction to it. Or used to ... I find I'm being somewhat infected by the modern tendency to see sex in everything. *sigh* Sometimes I really do understand why some people long for "the good old days." Until I remember they were the "good" old days only if you were a white, heterosexual male, and the rest of us were screwed.

[Boton]

Mrs. Hudson always brings Sherlock his morning tea, does that mean something too?

We all know Mrs. Hudson really wants the boys to be a couple and is forcing her views on them. In TSoT where Sherlock thinks his morning tea "just sort of happened," he's telling her that he thinks her assumptions are baseless.

 

(Bring it on, tea theorists! It's US Independence Day, and we all know an American can fight a tea battle all day! LOL!)

[Arcadia]

Yeah, we'll just dump all the tea in the harbor, that'll fix 'em! 

 

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

OH now you have almost infinite source of salty tea.

Hmmmmm...salty tea.

Wait..

Ugh!!! Salty tea!!

[Arcadia]

I had a co-worker once who thought it would be funny to dump a bunch of salt in my tea when I wasn't looking. Everyone at the table was watching to see how I'd react to the taste.

 

I never noticed. :p

 

[Boton]

Salty tea actually doesn't sound that bad.

 

Of course, I have recently become addicted to actual British tea that is imported to a little UK-oriented shop here locally, and boy, that stuff is a completely different beverage for hot tea than the stuff we get for the US market.  

 

But, if one is making iced tea, one wants a US-oriented brand of tea.  That's definitely a US creation.

 

 

[Pseudonym]

I couldn't find a decent cup of tea anywhere when I visit America, so it most be pretty different. 

 

How about Long Island iced tea? ;) I'm guessing that's the same there as here, as in about 80% booze. 

[Boton]

I couldn't find a decent cup of tea anywhere when I visit America, so it most be pretty different. 

 

How about Long Island iced tea? ;) I'm guessing that's the same there as here, as in about 80% booze. 

 

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that we Americans really don't "get" hot tea, even though we seem to think it's very sophisticated to drink it. That British import stuff blew my mind.

 

Long Island Iced Tea?  Ah, yes, I cherish a few gaps in my memory from college thanks to that lovely drink. Ours was tequila, vodka, white rum, and gin, topped off with Coke, a lemon wedge, and a cherry.  I used to be able to drink at least two of those (in quart-sized tumblers, although filled with ice), go have onion rings, drink some water, and wake up without a hangover. Now, almost anything I drink has a 50/50 chance of giving me a migraine and possibly leaving me slightly hung over for two days.  Sigh.

[Pseudonym]

Blew your mind in a good way or a bad way?

 

Wine was my poison in uni. I never got hangovers then either. 

[Boton]

In a good way. I've always liked Earl Grey tea and English Breakfast tea as they are available on the US market, but one day my hubby came home and told me he'd stopped by the UK import store and brought me those teas because he knew I liked them and we had been on a "British foods" kick.  Man, the nuance in the flavors compared to what I was used to!  Just the multiple notes of different flavors, all distinct and all working together nicely compared to what I was used to.  And I don't think I was drinking something particularly exclusive.  It was just Twinings, but the difference between Twinings for the UK market and Twinings for the US market was pretty distinct to me.

 

On the other hand, if you are making iced tea, you make good old US Liptons, particularly the stuff intended for iced tea.  That's its own thing.

[Boton]

Sort of back on TJLC, this is an interesting article in TV Guide talking about the success of Broadchurch and why keeping the partner detectives friends instead of hinting at romantic possibilities is important to the show's success.  You really could substitute Sherlock and John here and make the same analysis.

 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/broadchurch-season-3-miller-hardy/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0g&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=595d8f1804d30147d73e8f3e&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter