The Johnlock Conspiracy

[Pseudonym]

Is this him? 

 

[J.P.]

Yes. :D

ETA: but he looks stupid with this wig (who doesn't?)

This pic is nicer

[Pseudonym]

Ah ha! I always thought the judge seemed a bit old, but I thought if Mark likes an older gentleman who am I criticise?  :lol:

[J.P.]

Well, one of the gentlemen is usually older. More or less… :P

[Pseudonym]

Yea, but that judge, if I'm remembering correctly (which I may not be, everyone looks old in a judge-wig), looked a LOT older. 

[gerry]

The judge looked to be in his 60s at least.

[Boton]

 

A four years old contribution of Ian, found by accident (really!)

 

Ian Hallard

23rd Apr 2013 from TwitLonger

 

@Veruska_S @CHIMPSINSOCKS Yes, I find I learn more and more about the subculture as time goes on! To be fair, I didn't say anyone’s fantasies were wrong. People are very welcome to fantasise about whatever they like. No one is judging that - well not me anyway. I was querying the extent to which that fantasy, for some at least, seems to have developed into a belief, or in certain cases insistent demands, that it should become reality and appear in the show itself.

“Sherlock” itself plays with the idea that society is so unused to any kind of male friendship or intimacy that those around Sherlock and John often assume their relationship can only be motivated by sexual attraction. As Amanda says, why can’t their love for each other be friendship? Why impose a gay dynamic on two characters who, as clearly as we can tell, identify respectively as heterosexual and asexual?

Personally speaking, I’d love to see more well-rounded gay characters and well-written gay relationships depicted in drama, but that’s another story – and not this one, I’m afraid.

As you say, it's an interesting phenomenon.

 

 

I think Ian's comments here are very well put and capture what we've talked about on this particular forum thread for years. MG is lucky to have IH in his life, because he is clearly an intelligent man.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... that judge, if I'm remembering correctly (which I may not be, everyone looks old in a judge-wig), looked a LOT older.

 

I looked him up, and the actor is about 20 years older than MG -- so in TRF, the judge-actor was around 65.

[J.P.]

What surprised me that the entitled and demanding group is so old.

[Pseudonym]

Where did 'entitled and demanding' come from? Or are you paraphrasing something? Have the feeling I'm missing something - was that something he was responding to?

[J.P.]

I'm kind of paraphrasing. I mean the militant part of the fandom, who took JL (and themselves) a bit too serious.

[Pseudonym]

Ah right, yup, I agree with you there. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Do you mean old as in that part of fandom has been around a long time (which it has, predating BBC Sherlock by decades at least), or old as in the individuals involved are not so young?  I've seen the former mentioned numerous times (including fan commentary on the Jeremy Brett series, for example), but have never seen any statistics for the latter.

[J.P.]

Oops… I actually meant that those people are around for so long. But then I'm in the fandom for 2,5 years now and it's only last fall that I learned about the Dark Side. For some reason I also believed that TJLC is quite new. Silly me.

[Pseudonym]

There's a difference between Johnlock shipping and the conspiracy though, right?

[Arcadia]

Yah, I think what JP's referring to is something different than what Carol is referring to. TJLC is pretty specific and a bit scary in it's intensity, imo.

[J.P.]

This ^

[Carol the Dabbler]

True.  And I do believe that the conspiracy theory is fairly new -- though I really can't say how new.

[Carol the Dabbler]

According to two fan sites (1 and 2), the term TJLC dates back to January of 2014.  The phenomenon appears to date from roughly that time as well.

[Boton]

According to two fan sites (1 and 2), the term TJLC dates back to January of 2014. The phenomenon appears to date from roughly that time as well.

So, roughly from the premiere of S3? Wonder what it was about that season that would allow for the, um, intensity we see in TJLC?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Artemis]

I would guess that the addition of Mary has something to do with it.  They had to come up with more theories to "explain" her.  And possibly the fact that they waited so long to see John and Sherlock reunited, and the way it unfolded sparked some controversy.  When people start arguing to defend their viewpoint, they reinforce it, and it naturally tends to become more intense.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

According to two fan sites (1 and 2), the term TJLC dates back to January of 2014. The phenomenon appears to date from roughly that time as well.

So, roughly from the premiere of S3? Wonder what it was about that season that would allow for the, um, intensity we see in TJLC?

 

According to those sites, the shippers saw "ammunition" for their belief in TSo3.  Apparently, the belief was that either TJLC was indeed Moftiss's intention, or else they were "queerbaiting" the audience -- and the TJLCers were giving Moftiss the benefit of the doubt.  Given only those two options, they are of course being kind; but many of us see other options (such as Moftiss having a wacky sense of humor).

 

I have no quarrel with anyone seeing a work of fiction through whatever lens they choose, though I do expect them to accord me the same respect, which the TJLCers (at least the more noticeable ones) do not seem willing to do.  However my main disagreement with them is the way they seem to believe that just because some line of dialog (or some bit of action, or some prop) could be interpreted to mean a certain thing, that somehow proves that Moftiss intend it to signify that thing.  Admittedly, there are literary traditions whereby X traditionally signifies Y -- but there have always been authors who believed in breaking new ground, so X does not always signify Y, even in serious literary circles.  And it seems fairly clear to me that Sherlock is not high literature; indeed, Moftiss have repeatedly referred to it as entertainment.  So any attempt to prove anything about Moftiss's intentions is on shaky ground from the start.

[Arcadia]

Likewise. I was intrigued by the theory at first, but quickly became turned off; first, by what I consider to be lazy assumptions, like Carol mentions above; second, by their reliance on stereotypes to bolster their arguments (he drinks tea, ergo he must be gay ... the moment I read that one I threw up my hands in disgust and never went back.) I still feel bad for many of the people who got caught up in it, though .... they placed their faith where they thought it was safe to let it go, then discovered that "their" fandom is just as fallible as any other institution. (More, imo, but that's a separate argument.) Ah, life does like to kick us in the head, doesn't it? :( But that's how we grow, I hope most of them eventually learn the right lessons from it.

 

ETA:

It still amazes me that TSo3 ... the one where John marries one woman and Sherlock flirts with another ... is considered evidence for the theory. I even remember thinking at one point "Well, I guess that shuts the door on the Johnlock-ers." Imagine my astonishment when people started saying the exact opposite!

[J.P.]

 

that fantasy, for some at least, seems to have developed into a belief, or in certain cases insistent demands, that it should become reality and appear in the show itself.

It's like there were at least some signs back in 2013. If you not dwelling in certain areas of www and not look for it, the dimension of TJLC may stay under the radar.

[T.o.b.y]

If I understand correctly, the difference between "shipping" John and Sherlock and TJLC is that the first just means you think they would make a cute couple while the second describes an honest belief that the creators of the show wrote them as such and they will eventually get together on screen.

 

I actually agree with both to a degree, I just think their relationship isn't meant to be sexual. Theirs is a love story all right but not the kind that culminates in kisses and rumpled sheets or the exchange of rings.

 

I still really love the love story and I was really relieved to find that in spite of being visibly annoyed by fan hopes and demands, they continued it in series 4 and brought it to a, for me, very satisfying conclusion.