The Political Thread

[Surelock]

Help me understand these:

- Why attack, regardless how limited it claims, is the reasonable move in current international situation, because it seems like it's actually supported by awful lot of people.

- why US thinks it has the right to do it.

- why a lot of people in their comfortable and safe office decide what should be done, who should be bombed as if it's regular office meeting. Armchair war? Are we living in simulation?

 

Maybe we should strap those who are so thirsty with war, give them adequate ammunitions and throw them in arena if they like it so much. Whoever, whatever color, religion, ideology and reason, don't care. Don't use or involve or harm ordinary people who want to live in peace in those bloody games.

 

Tbh the most likely reason why Trump bombed Assad's forces is because he wanted to prove that he wasn't Putin's puppet. Recently there have been a lot of allegations of Trump's connections with Russia. Regardless of how true they all are, a wannabe strong man like Trump would want to prove that he's strong and independent and takes orders from nobody. So he needs to defy Putin in some way. Thus Trump decides to bomb Assad's airbase to do so. I think the attack was more symbolic than anything else.

 

It should be noted that these attacks did achieve the above mentioned political effect. If you look around on the news, there are a lot of politicians, that had previously criticised Trump for his ties to Russia, are now praising him for being tough on Assad.

 

The only problem is that I can see attacks like that (if Trump continues to do them) escalate into a full blown war. You shouldn't play with fire but I don't think Trump understands that.

[Arcadia]

And my response is: I have absolutely no idea. My country has been doing this kind of thing ever since I've been alive (and probably longer) and I've never understood it, and suppose I never will.

 

I guess .... I think some of those who support such actions would argue that the United States is the most powerful country in the world, and therefore it's up to us to punish those we perceive as "villains", simply because we are the ones who can. Others will argue as Surelock did; that we need to "stand strong" against Russia so Putin will think twice about becoming a threat to "our way of life". Others will claim that our own security is at stake, and we have to bully everyone else so they'll be afraid to come here. And some people just like to blow up stuff, or kill Muslims, or what have you. It's a mess, frankly, because we have no leadership worthy of the name, and our own people are so divided on almost every issue right now that even people who are worthy of leadership can't rally enough support to succeed. It is a mess, mess, mess and I'm really afraid we are going to end up with global conflict.

 

Sorry.

 

At any rate, the decision by governments to conduct mass killings are always made by people in offices, aren't they? Even generals are usually somewhere safe behind the lines when they decide to throw their troops into battle. As Sherlock would say, there is nothing new under the sun. Damn him, why is he always right?

 

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

I know you are right. I just feel too frustated some times.

Actually I remember back then when something bad happened to my family and friends, some of them said that US should come and bomb the particular religion to the ground (of course technicality and everything else are lost to them, but they were in grief and anger).

[Shadow Dweller]

Syria is a hub between Asia, Africa and Europe, add that with the presence of natural gas and oil pipelines, you'll get the picture why USA and allies keep meddling in that area. That one is the heart of the middle east region in that aspect. Imagine. this, per barrel oil transported by ship or train is between 10-15 $ while with the pipelines it is only around 5$. That's only one of the main reasons why Assad have to go. It is a proxy war reminiscent of the cold war.

[Arcadia]

I'd hate to think we are blowing people up just to avoid paying higher prices. But alas, you are probably right, Shadow.

 

One of my acquaintances voted for Trump because "we need a business man running this country." I guess that IS how a business man would think; anything's justified as long as it maximizes profits.

[Shadow Dweller]

While Trump and cohorts are playing with Syria there's another hot spot where confrontation with Hezbollah might explode in the near future. Today or tomorrow too, depends on which time region you are, a Russian frigate is to arrive on Mediterranean for joint naval exercise with the Turkish. That ship carries Kalibr-NK missiles. ISIS is right on their latest video release when calling Trump as an idiot.

[Arcadia]

Oh joy.

[Surelock]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-korea-idUSKBN17A0V5

 

So Trump is now sending warships to North Korea as a 'show of force':

 

A U.S. Navy strike group will be moving toward the western Pacific Ocean near the Korean peninsula as a show of force, a U.S. official told Reuters on Saturday, as concerns grow about North Korea's advancing weapons program.

 

I'm sure sending warships will convince North Korea to abandon their weapons program. Who cares about developing weapons when you have hostile warships docked at your bay?

[Van Buren Supernova]

At least there is one positive thing. Maybe. I read couple of die hard Trump supporters had turned on him.

[Arcadia]

I read that too, and then I read that one of them was supporting him after all.  

[Van Buren Supernova]

Aiz..! Facepalm indeed.

I haven't read any news since yesterday.

I really really really don't know how far more I could drop down my view about human stupidity and cruelty should another war happen.

 

Maybe I just read my usual news, somehow reading that medieval people used to chop off their deads so that they wouldn't come back as zombies would make me feel better.

[Surelock]

Aiz..! Facepalm indeed.

I haven't read any news since yesterday.

I really really really don't know how far more I could drop down my view about human stupidity and cruelty should another war happen.

 

 

As Sherlock would say 'stupid, stupid, stupid':

 

 

 

 

So the majority of Americans support the strikes on Syria. Only a third oppose them and the rest are just undecided lol.

 

I don't understand how 83% of Trump voters support strikes on Syria. Didn't they vote in Trump because of his anti-interventionist stance? Didn't Trump say he wasn't going to go after Assad?

[Arcadia]

I don't think they gave a fig about his stance on Assad.

 

Of the people I've talked to that voted for Trump, the one thing they all seem to agree on was their hatred of Hillary. To hear them talk, she was evil incarnate. Which in some strange way I understand, because that's the way I feel about Trump.

 

Now that I've had some time to think about it, I'm not sure how I feel about the strikes. I think Trump's administration did it in a stupid way ... all their bluster and chest-thumping and smug self-righteousness, and the sheer hypocrisy of being pro-Putin one minute and anti-Putin the next ... I'm embarrassed for my country and don't blame people for despising us.

 

But the policy behind the strikes ... to protest Assad using chemical weapons, and against his own people ... I find it hard to argue with that. Although I'm cynical enough to suspect Trump's people don't give a damn about Assad's victims, they just wanted an excuse to blow up some Muslims.

 

*sigh*

 

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

I get that. But has is been proven true?

After all, regarding WMD in Bush's time...

And many other facts that things are never really what they seem..

 

Anyway, you don't have to be embarrassed as Americans. I have learned long time ago that a person can't represent a country, and a country can't represent a person. In theory, yes, but that is outdated theory that I think should no longer applies, at least to majority, for one reason, we don't choose where we were born. And every single country has their own baggage, some worse than others, and yours is definitely not the worse yet, for now.

[Arcadia]

As to whether it's been proven true ... depends on who you believe, the victims or the people the victims have accused. But something seems to have happened, unless the videos are faked.
 
Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be a human being, period.

[Van Buren Supernova]

 

Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be a human being, period.

Hey, sign me up right there.

I have had that feeling for years.

[J.P.]

What I found worrying is that Trump is totally unpredictable. There are old tweets from 2013 where he says things totally contrary to what he says now. Even one week earlier he was not willing to engage in Syria.

 

Other problem with this situation: if you do nothing it's bad, if you bomb Asad it's bad, but what else can you do?

[Shadow Dweller]

There are at least four major factions in the Syria conflict right now; Assad, the Sunni, the Kurdish and ISIS. Each of them have their own end goals. The question is, which one actually have the most interests of using chemical bombing on the civilian? Forget what the medias said, reading of the pre-bombing landscape should provide necessary clues.

 

@Surelock: Not only about the North Korea, I am afraid. The US presence in that area is much more than just for sabre-rattling with the PRC.

[Surelock]

What I found worrying is that Trump is totally unpredictable. There are old tweets from 2013 where he says things totally contrary to what he says now. Even one week earlier he was not willing to engage in Syria.

 

It's amazing how prophetic Trump's old tweets are. He was referring to Obama in them but now all of them can apply to him as well:

 

 

 

I think when Trump is trying to make presidential decisions, he turns to his old tweets as a source of guidance. That can explain the self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Isn't contradiction is what he does best?

[Arcadia]

From what I've observed so far, the man has no core beliefs, other than in himself. He's the ultimate businessman, doing whatever it takes to sell his product; which is himself. He knows nothing about the world, except how it affects himself. It would be funny if it weren't so terrifying.

[Surelock]

From what I've observed so far, the man has no core beliefs, other than in himself. He's the ultimate businessman, doing whatever it takes to sell his product; which is himself. He knows nothing about the world, except how it affects himself. It would be funny if it weren't so terrifying.

 

This makes me wonder why Trump's fans seem to believe that Trump actually cares about them. They seem oblivious to the fact that Trump is just conning them all for his own self-gain. 

[Arcadia]

I wonder who his "real" fans are, exactly. I know what the stereotype is ... overweight, under-educated, smug and belligerent (in other words, Trump himself ) -- but I don't know if that's accurate. I do know that not everyone who voted for Trump is a fan. Wish I knew what they thought of his latest moves, but they seem to be avoiding me lately. Can't imagine why. :p

[Fantasy Lover]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/watch-sean-spicer-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons-donald-trump-syria/ omfg!

[Arcadia]

That guy is a complete joke as a spokesperson. Although I suspect they all think that way; the Jews aren't "their" people, so of course it doesn't matter what happened to them... and I assume a lot of them are Holocaust deniers. They seem like the type.