Episode 4.2 "The Lying Detective"

[Shadow Dweller]

She was interested, she offered for them to have some fun, but I don't think she was overly bothered if he didn't take her up on it. 

 

Now I am curious about why you think of that. What kind of person you think she is?

 

I think he had always thought of her as simply a colleague, and now he's suddenly forced to think of her as, you know, a woman.  Judging by the expressions on his face, he's intrigued, but initially rejects the idea -- then on second thought decides to keep the option open.  I would love to see them follow up on this!

 

 

Why do you think he didn't reject her outright? And what kind of person do you think she is?

[Shadow Dweller]

 

I thought this was a really particular sort of offer.

 

For my own part, I never considered Mycroft definitely straight- though his choice of assistant maybe should have hinted at the possibility. But I would still consider him as someone for whom the intellectual who of who was asking him out would be more important than other physical attributes- male/ female, younger/ older etc.

 

 

 

:D I am going with the first thing that immediately attracted my eyes. Why his choice of assistant would have hinted at the possibility that he was straight? Do this sort of negated Sherlock's words, which might be spoken from real knowledge about Mycroft's past dalliances or simply because that's one of his brand of humours, about meeting 'The Queen' in the Scandal in Belgravia?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Why do you think he didn't reject her outright? And what kind of person do you think she is?

A} I think he trusts her.

B} Honorable yet pragmatic.

[Arcadia]

I'm not sure I thought too hard about any of this, but here's my initial reaction to your questions, Shadow.

 

I thought he had Anthea as an assistant because it made him seem more like a cliché baddie, like Dr. No or something.

 

It didn't occur to me to wonder about Mycroft's sexual orientation (he's not, after all, a major character) until Gatiss himself said (somewhere) that he thinks of Mycroft as gay. From that point on, I've sort of assumed the same thing. So it was a surprise to me when he decided to keep Lady S.'s card. But then it occurred to me he could be considering her for friendship and/or socialization, not necessarily a romance. She seemed non-specific in that regard to me; she just wanted them to have the opportunity to get to know each other better, but didn't have a specific outcome in mind.

 

And after what they'd been through with Eurus, and seeing how having friends seemed to be a good thing for Sherlock, he's wondering if he wouldn't like to try it himself.

 

That's all.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

^

^

All of that sounds good to me.

 

I'm pretty sure what I've heard Gatiss say was something like he thinks Mycroft might be gay -- nothing definitive, anyhow.  (Maybe he's waiting to see where things go with Lady Smallwood.  ;) )

 

Sherlock seems to think Mycroft is gay ("Are we here to see the queen?" "Apparently yes").  But little brothers can be like that, so I wouldn't put too much weight on it.

 

 

[Shadow Dweller]

Ahhh... here's what I am waiting for, the 'offer to get know each other better - not necessarily romantic'. :D Lady S. certainly provides a different example of female character than the rest, isn't she? If there must be romantic overtone between these two I can see that it would be a balanced relationship based on mutual respect and trust (in loose term). Still waiting for Bedelia's opinion about the choice of assistant. ^^

[T.o.b.y]

I doubt Sherlock would make fun of Mycroft's lack of experience with women (as he does in The Empty Hearse during their hat deduction) if he knew his brother to be gay. Because in that case, Mycroft not dating women wouldn't be a weak spot but just a logical result of his orientation. And Sherlock doesn't seem homophobic to me at all, he doesn't give two straws about the rumors concerning him and John, doesn't even bother to correct Mrs Hudson and while his deduction about "Jim from IT" was riddled with clichés, he didn't respond to Moriarty's (mock?) flirting any differently than he does to the advances some of the female characters make. It seems to be kind of a non-issue for him.

 

So just going by what's on screen, I should say that to Sherlock's knowledge at least, Mycroft isn't gay.

 

It's interesting though that in A Scandal in Belgravia, it's only Sherlock who is mocked for being "the virgin". That made me suspect that Mycroft, while he certainly doesn't do relationships, has experience with the physical side of things, most likely through some kind of posh escort service.

 

Sherlock throwing his "how would you know" line back at him in The Empty Hearse gave me the impression that while Sherlock doesn't (or didn't? He was gone for a while and who knows what he was up to, maybe he met with Irene at some point) have sex, Mycroft doesn't have relationships, neither with men or women.

[Carol the Dabbler]

That's an interesting distinction, considering that most people use the terms sex and relationship more or less interchangeably. But the Holmes brothers aren't most people, are they?

[Pseudonym]

 

She was interested, she offered for them to have some fun, but I don't think she was overly bothered if he didn't take her up on it. 

 

Now I am curious about why you think of that. What kind of person you think she is?

 

 

I think she's a confident, self-assured woman who doesn't shy away from going for what she wants. She mature enough to offer Mycroft a drink and maybe more, she'd like it if he took her up on it, but won't be crushed if he doesn't. 

 

I really don't think Mycroft's sexuality has any bearing at all on his choice of assistant. If it did, if he only employed an assistant because he thought she was attractive that would be a whole other can of worms and pretty reprehensible. I get the impression he barely notices what she is as long as she's efficient. 

[J.P.]

Sherlock seems to think Mycroft is gay ("Are we here to see the queen?" "Apparently yes").  But little brothers can be like that, so I wouldn't put too much weight on it.

I never thought of the "Queen" remark as any allusion to his sexuality. For me "queen" meant solely "the most important person in the country". Which was true, at least from Mycroft's POV. :D It's also why there are memes with "the Queen is not amused" and fitting pictures of Myc.

[Pseudonym]

I agree, I don't think it's an allusion to his sexuality either. 

[bedelia1984]

 

 

I thought this was a really particular sort of offer.

 

For my own part, I never considered Mycroft definitely straight- though his choice of assistant maybe should have hinted at the possibility. But I would still consider him as someone for whom the intellectual who of who was asking him out would be more important than other physical attributes- male/ female, younger/ older etc.

 

 

 

:D I am going with the first thing that immediately attracted my eyes. Why his choice of assistant would have hinted at the possibility that he was straight? Do this sort of negated Sherlock's words, which might be spoken from real knowledge about Mycroft's past dalliances or simply because that's one of his brand of humours, about meeting 'The Queen' in the Scandal in Belgravia?

 

 

You must forgive the fact that my mind has been partly rotted by reading fan-fiction of a very pedestrian Mycorft seduces his female assistant nature... So while Arcadia's theory that Anthea was a bond-style cliche was what I first suspected, I also saw a lot of the fandom thinking he might have been taken with her more obvious charms. Of course there are no outward signs of that- but then when are there, really, with Mycroft?

 

As for the 'queen' comment- it seems to me like the kind of joke that's funnier if he isn't gay, so I don't know? I always saw it as more of a comment on Mycroft's imperiousness and fastidiousness, regardless of his orientation.

 

But yet for three seasons I believed him to probably be gay anyway. They've really confused me with this one. I'd be willing to settle at the idea that Mycroft is bisexual.

 

I really don't think Mycroft's sexuality has any bearing at all on his choice of assistant. If it did, if he only employed an assistant because he thought she was attractive that would be a whole other can of worms and pretty reprehensible. I get the impression he barely notices what she is as long as she's efficient.   

 

Pseudonym, I agree it would be lousy if it was a conscious decision, but I can see the case for it not being entirely conscious- I definitely don't see him as some kind of sexual harassment poster child in the workplace- only that I've read that people a boss finds physically attractive are universally more successful in job interviews- and I don't think that's something most people are aware of or would acknowledge as a reason for their choice, nor that it often leads to affairs, etc.

 

I know we should/ are inclined to consider Mycroft as sort of above all that due to his intellect, but for me is anything season 4 was about realising a lot of what I had expected the Holmes boys to be above, they actually weren't. And Mycroft, especially, seems to have big emotional blind spots (see: Eurus).

 

Like, I can imagine a scenario where for the last five years there has been a number of gestures or throwaway moments/ comments between him and Lady S that she could have taken as signs of interest/ potential, and it's only now dawning on him to lift his head up from his desk and consider them in that light. He seems to see himself as all business, possibly more from habit than anything else.

[Boton]

 

 

 

 

 

As for the 'queen' comment- it seems to me like the kind of joke that's funnier if he isn't gay, so I don't know? I always saw it as more of a comment on Mycroft's imperiousness and fastidiousness, regardless of his orientation.

 

But yet for three seasons I believed him to probably be gay anyway. They've really confused me with this one. I'd be willing to settle at the idea that Mycroft is bisexual.

 

I really don't think Mycroft's sexuality has any bearing at all on his choice of assistant. If it did, if he only employed an assistant because he thought she was attractive that would be a whole other can of worms and pretty reprehensible. I get the impression he barely notices what she is as long as she's efficient.   

 

Pseudonym, I agree it would be lousy if it was a conscious decision, but I can see the case for it not being entirely conscious- I definitely don't see him as some kind of sexual harassment poster child in the workplace- only that I've read that people a boss finds physically attractive are universally more successful in job interviews- and I don't think that's something most people are aware of or would acknowledge as a reason for their choice, nor that it often leads to affairs, etc.

 

 

 

 

I always assumed Mycroft was gay, and of the Kinsey 5 version of gay.  It literally never occurred to me that he could have a single cell in his body interested in women until Lady S. gave him the digits, and I wondered what she knew that we didn't. 

 

My justification, briefly, was that Mycroft and Sherlock treat each other as teenagers.  With a seven-year age difference, Mycroft could be hearkening back to a time when he was 19 and Sherlock 12, and he teased Sherlock about being a virgin, a condition that could easily have changed without Mycroft knowing.  (He doesn't have CCTV cameras *everywhere*, I hope!) But a 12 YO Sherlock could tease an older Mycroft about being gay, and that could have basis in a truth that wasn't likely to change. 

 

Anyway.

 

I can invent a scenario in which a straight or bi Mycroft subconsciously hires attractive assistants because he figures that's the closest he'll ever get to that kind of a relationship with a woman.  After all, his sister is a murderous psychopath.  His brother has, at minimum, flirted with drug addiction.  I'm not sure that's the kind of genetic mix I'd really want to play with passing along, and it would be an intellectual choice as to whether he blamed nature (high IQ creating problems, which his own children would probably inherit, even with regression to the mean), and nurture (bad parenting, and it's tough to blame your parents for such things).

 

So he shuts himself off, and a relationship forms with Lady S quite without him ever putting a label on it.  And then she gives him her number and he realizes he's at the time of life where a sexual relationship with a woman wouldn't bring the risk of passing along bad genes or bad parenting to children, and he's intrigued. 

[Pseudonym]

Perhaps it's just as simple as he's just not all that interested in anybody, but when she gives him her number he is intrigued enough that he might follow through on it. 

[Boton]

Well that would certainly be the Occam's Razor approach.   :D

[Pseudonym]

The thing is not everyone fits into a neat little box, and Mycroft (and maybe Sherlock) seem to be examples of that. 

[Shadow Dweller]

Interesting possibilities all of you talked about here. The majority were considering the romantic and or physical side, is that means deep down you want to see Lady S. and Mycroft H. pairing in the season 5? ;)

[Pseudonym]

I'd rather not! 

[Shadow Dweller]

I'd rather not! 

 

Why is that? :D

[Pseudonym]

I don't know, the idea of *seeing* anything with Mycroft and Lady S really squicks me out. I don't mind whatever they get up to in the background but I'd rather not see it. Perhaps it's the age difference between them, though I have no issues with that kind of thing in real life. I think it'd feel like watching my parents or something, gives me the same creeping unpleasant feeling. 

[Boton]

Interesting possibilities all of you talked about here. The majority were considering the romantic and or physical side, is that means deep down you want to see Lady S. and Mycroft H. pairing in the season 5? ;)

 

I don't, really.  While I love the possibility of Mycroft/Lady S in fan fiction, I think the show is at its best when romance is kept peripheral. Besides, I don't think Mycroft would let us all be privy to his love life, do you?   ;)

[Carol the Dabbler]

Depends on how they handle it, I think. Certainly wouldn't mind seeing him be all chivalrous toward her.

[Shadow Dweller]

She is 16 years older than him if we are going with the original birth-dates of the actors. This is certainly a fanfic-material :D, she could be one of his mentors many years ago. She get to see him as fresh-faced new recruit and then witnessed the many changes that happened during the years in the Service.

[Boton]

And 16 years is exactly the difference between Lestrade and Molly, and there are many who would like to see that transpire.  (Well, many who don't want to see her get instantly pregnant from crossing through Sherlock's shadow or something.  :-) )

 

I like the idea of her being one of Mycroft's mentors and that fueling a relationship.  I'm just not sure I want to devote screen time to it..

[Pseudonym]

I don't think I want any on screen romance from anyone. I had enough of that with Mary.