Episode 4.2 "The Lying Detective"

[Boton]

Her name card read, "Lady Alicia Smallwood." Personally I prefers Elizabeth, somewhat sounds more dignified.

 

Personally, I believe her name is Elizabeth Alicia, and that she goes by Alicia socially, but that Mycroft would call her Lady Smallwood in public for simply ages, and that he would call her Elizabeth in private because that's how he's gotten to know her at work.  Until he starts calling her Squishy-poo or something.  :D

 

It's British slang, too.  From the Oxford Dictionary:  "A homosexual man, especially one regarded as ostentatiously effeminate."

 

I would have been less likely to take it as meaning gay if they hadn't giggled.  Whatever they meant, they were apparently making a rather childish joke out of it.

 

The two were playing Operation, for heaven sake.  That's all you have to know, IMHO -- assume that their relationship hasn't changed at all from that of a couple of 12 year old boys.  So yeah, I think Sherlock was calling Mycroft gay; whether or not that now or ever has any basis in fact is up for debate.

 

(Although, given the High Wycombe conversation and the Lady Smallwood stuff, it would be kind of funny if the two of them have spent their entire lives taunting one another about not being able to get a woman, and it isn't true for either of them.)

[Shadow Dweller]

 

Her name card read, "Lady Alicia Smallwood." Personally I prefers Elizabeth, somewhat sounds more dignified.

 

Personally, I believe her name is Elizabeth Alicia, and that she goes by Alicia socially, but that Mycroft would call her Lady Smallwood in public for simply ages, and that he would call her Elizabeth in private because that's how he's gotten to know her at work.  Until he starts calling her Squishy-poo or something.  :D

 

At the beginning of the card-giving scene both of them were on the process of donning their suit-jacket. We saw many times that Mycroft almost never take off his so why on Lady Smallwood's presence? Not only him but Lady S. too. :D

[Carol the Dabbler]

I would have been less likely to take it as meaning gay if they hadn't giggled.  Whatever they meant, they were apparently making a rather childish joke out of it.

 

The two were playing Operation, for heaven sake.  That's all you have to know, IMHO -- assume that their relationship hasn't changed at all from that of a couple of 12 year old boys.  So yeah, I think Sherlock was calling Mycroft gay; whether or not that now or ever has any basis in fact is up for debate.

 

I agree with your conclusion -- but just to clarify my "giggling" remark, that particular "they" was Sherlock and John (with no assistance whatsoever from Mycroft, as I recall).

 

At the beginning of the card-giving scene both of them were on the process of donning their suit-jacket. We saw many times that Mycroft almost never take off his so why on Lady Smallwood's presence? Not only him but Lady S. too. :D

 

I've seen conjectures that they'd been getting it on, but I suspect those people were joking, because that interpretation doesn't seem to fit with Mycroft's reaction at the end of the card-giving scene.

 

Perhaps they'd been pulling an all-nighter in some less pleasant sense.  People tend to remove restrictive clothing when they've been working too long -- and maybe Mycroft does too.

 

Added:  Hmm -- maybe Lady S took her jacket off first, just to test Mycroft's reaction -- and when he subsequently removed his own jacket, she (probably correctly) interpreted that to mean that he felt comfortable with her -- which emboldened her to suggest they spend some social time together.

[Shadow Dweller]

That's make sense and now the question mark is on, "Why now, after not long ago he had her escorted to an interrogation room under the suspicion of leaking sensitive information? Is there something in the series that could give us clue about her reason for such action?"

[J.P.]

Hmmm… I still find the non gay "Queen" remark funnier.

 

 

The two were playing Operation, for heaven sake.

But they did it without looking!

[Boton]

 

I would have been less likely to take it as meaning gay if they hadn't giggled.  Whatever they meant, they were apparently making a rather childish joke out of it.

 

The two were playing Operation, for heaven sake.  That's all you have to know, IMHO -- assume that their relationship hasn't changed at all from that of a couple of 12 year old boys.  So yeah, I think Sherlock was calling Mycroft gay; whether or not that now or ever has any basis in fact is up for debate.

 

I agree with your conclusion -- but just to clarify my "giggling" remark, that particular "they" was Sherlock and John (with no assistance whatsoever from Mycroft, as I recall).

 

At the beginning of the card-giving scene both of them were on the process of donning their suit-jacket. We saw many times that Mycroft almost never take off his so why on Lady Smallwood's presence? Not only him but Lady S. too. :D

 

I've seen conjectures that they'd been getting it on, but I suspect those people were joking, because that interpretation doesn't seem to fit with Mycroft's reaction at the end of the card-giving scene.

 

Perhaps they'd been pulling an all-nighter in some less pleasant sense.  People tend to remove restrictive clothing when they've been working too long -- and maybe Mycroft does too.

 

Added:  Hmm -- maybe Lady S took her jacket off first, just to test Mycroft's reaction -- and when he subsequently removed his own jacket, she (probably correctly) interpreted that to mean that he felt comfortable with her -- which emboldened her to suggest they spend some social time together.

 

 

Good clarification on the giggling, Carol.  It has been a while since I've watched that scene.  Although, I'm not exempting John from the "12 year old" category.   :D

 

I never thought Lady S and Mycroft were doing the deed.  People take off their jackets when they are working, even Mycroft. And I think Mycroft is traditional enough that hot desk sex would come after they'd been dating, not before.   :D

[Shadow Dweller]

 

Good clarification on the giggling, Carol. It has been a while since I've watched that scene. Although, I'm not exempting John from the "12 year old" category. :D

 

I never thought Lady S and Mycroft were doing the deed. People take off their jackets when they are working, even Mycroft. And I think Mycroft is traditional enough that hot desk sex would come after they'd been dating, not before. :D

 

:D [is looking with hopeful eyes towards Boton] While the momentum is here would you write the established relationship between them soon? The one with Lady S. as Mycroft's former mentor.

[Boton]

I really do plan to write this, Shadow.  Right now, I have one scene in my mind.  I haven't decided yet if I want to try to do a coherent story line or just a series of scenes of that relationship.  I may opt for the latter, because that worked with my Sherlock/Janine "series" "Setting Sail."

[Shadow Dweller]

:D I am going to haunt your Ao3's corner for that one.

[J.P.]

I was researching and came upon this piece of transcript

 

LADY SMALLWOOD: We can keep tabs. You didn’t have to come in.
MYCROFT: I was talking to the prime minister.
LADY SMALLWOOD: Oh, I see.

And I realized that you can see it as Myc being happy to have an excuse to leave.

Either I am mistaken or very slow. Maybe both.

[Pseudonym]

Yea, I remember that gag, that no one wants to get stuck talking to the Prime Minister. 

[Arcadia]

Why not? Are the PMs famous for being boring?

[T.o.b.y]

I must say, as critical as I am about Eurus and how she was used in the final episode, her introduction to the series is actually kinda worth it imo for the scenes with her as "Faith" in The Lying Detective.

 

It's so touching and sad and scary at the same time watching her and Sherlock walking around London at night, spelling out curse words for Mycroft, knowing what I do about her now. Even though I am aware of how the story goes, part of me wants to jump into the TV and yell at Sherlock: "Run, run, get away from her, she's a homicidal maniac with a personal vendetta against you and you know she has a gun in that purse!" And the other half doesn't want to interrupt them because it's probably the only halfway normal sibling time they will ever have together.

 

I love this episode. For me, S4 is justified by its existence - and by the ending, of course.

[Artemis]

I do love his evening with "Faith", so much.  His laugh when she says, "I meant the chips," was so genuine, without snark, and not one we see from him very often in the rest of the series.  Considering the circumstances, I got the feeling it was the first time he'd laughed in ages.  It was such a poignant and palpable moment; and such a small thing, but the emotion emanated through the screen.

 

 

[Arcadia]

I must say, as critical as I am about Eurus and how she was used in the final episode, her introduction to the series is actually kinda worth it imo for the scenes with her as "Faith" in The Lying Detective.

 

It's so touching and sad and scary at the same time watching her and Sherlock walking around London at night, spelling out curse words for Mycroft, knowing what I do about her now. Even though I am aware of how the story goes, part of me wants to jump into the TV and yell at Sherlock: "Run, run, get away from her, she's a homicidal maniac with a personal vendetta against you and you know she has a gun in that purse!" And the other half doesn't want to interrupt them because it's probably the only halfway normal sibling time they will ever have together.

 

I love this episode. For me, S4 is justified by its existence - and by the ending, of course.

I do love his evening with "Faith", so much.  His laugh when she says, "I meant the chips," was so genuine, without snark, and not one we see from him very often in the rest of the series.  Considering the circumstances, I got the feeling it was the first time he'd laughed in ages.  It was such a poignant and palpable moment; and such a small thing, but the emotion emanated through the screen.

Yup. 

 

Me. ---> <--- TLD.

[Pseudonym]

Why not? Are the PMs famous for being boring?

 

I don't mean nobody wants to in general, just that the gag was this PM, whoever they are meant to be in this universe, must be infamous for being dull (or stupid, or some other detractor) going by Lady S's reaction. 

 

It's so touching and sad and scary at the same time watching her and Sherlock walking around London at night, spelling out curse words for Mycroft, knowing what I do about her now. Even though I am aware of how the story goes, part of me wants to jump into the TV and yell at Sherlock: "Run, run, get away from her, she's a homicidal maniac with a personal vendetta against you and you know she has a gun in that purse!" And the other half doesn't want to interrupt them because it's probably the only halfway normal sibling time they will ever have together.

 

That scene is lovely. 

[Arcadia]

 

Why not? Are the PMs famous for being boring?

 

I don't mean nobody wants to in general, just that the gag was this PM, whoever they are meant to be in this universe, must be infamous for being dull (or stupid, or some other detractor) going by Lady S's reaction.

 

 

Thanks, that's what I thought, but then I wondered if it was some uniquely British running joke that I wasn't aware of.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I was researching and came upon this piece of transcript

 

LADY SMALLWOOD: We can keep tabs. You didn’t have to come in.

MYCROFT: I was talking to the prime minister.

LADY SMALLWOOD: Oh, I see.

 

And I realized that you can see it as Myc being happy to have an excuse to leave.

Either I am mistaken or very slow. Maybe both.

I thought he just meant that he didnt make a special trip, he was already in the neighborhood.

[J.P.]

First I thought he was actually miffed because he had something important to talk about with the PM…

[Arcadia]

So did I, JP! Then I realized it made more sense the way Pseud described it. But I never thought of Carol's explanation. Now I feel like I should go watch that scene again and deeply analyze every intonation... maybe it's all code for the sizzling affair between Mycroft and Lady S....

[J.P.]

I think Myc says the line twice and the first time he really looks and sounds as if he hated the disturbance. Yeah, need to look at TLD again. Mycroft in a tux… yeah, definitely need to look.

[Arcadia]

I'm sure Lady S. would agree with you. ;)

[Hikari]

So did I, JP! Then I realized it made more sense the way Pseud described it. But I never thought of Carol's explanation. Now I feel like I should go watch that scene again and deeply analyze every intonation... maybe it's all code for the sizzling affair between Mycroft and Lady S....

 

I like the idea of those two stiff and chilly government bureaucrats having a sizzlin' affair.  M and Lady S. do seem to have a familiarity with each other that points to an . .acquaintance with each other outside of the bounds of Whitehall.

 

It would take a lot to cow Mycroft Holmes into submission, as he's used to being the smartest person . .in the world.  I think Lady S. could just be the one to do it, though.   Their liaison seems a bit more plausible than "Mystrade", however much I enjoy those fanvids.

[Janyss]

I've watched the 1, 2 and 3 of s4. Deserves rewatch (of course!), but I think 2 is the one I enjoyed less. Very dark, I just followed it because of Euros and Mycroft (oh, the lady has a crush on him, hasn't she -well, sure it reminds me of someone I know very well, but who's that...-? You have to earn being forgiven, dear M, or so it seems. The scene is really multiple meaning: Did he begin his redemption in his office, and was lady S. trying to "formalize" it then, or didn't she get what she wanted yet? Unfortunately we don't get more information about the "we have known each other for long" previous ep, do we? May be something for a fifth season...And for the moment we have to see Big brother getting stuck in his lies, a heavier and heavier burden...).

 

Well, the rest of the stuff was good,/-except Irène Adler popping up- but not really surprising.

[Arcadia]

No, I don't suppose any of it was really surprising (except for Mrs Hudson driving the car!) but I love the performances in this episode. And the cinematography. And the themes/reflections on death. One of my favorites.