The Language (and travel) Thread

[Arcadia]

I don't hate language change! I think the adoption of new words and meanings is kinda cool. Altho a couple of things bother me ... the increasingly prevalent use of "loose" to mean "lose" being my chief peeve at the moment. Not worth getting too worked up about, though.

 

A little google-fu landed this gem:

 

George Bernard Shaw, the brilliant Irish playwright, once sent this letter to the Times of London: “There is a busybody on your staff who devotes a lot of time to chasing split infinitives: I call for the immediate dismissal of this pedant. It is of no consequence whether he decides to go quickly or to quickly go or quickly to go. The important thing is that he should go at once.”

 

 

[sfmpco]

to boldly go where no man has gone before.... just doesn't ring as sweetly as to go boldly...

[Arcadia]

I assume you mean t'other way 'round! :D

 

Fun fact (?) from Wikipedia:

 

The first known example of a split infinitive in English, in which a pronoun rather than an adverb splits the infinitive, is in Layamon's Brut (early 13th century):

and he cleopede him to; alle his wise cnihtes. for to him reade; And he called to him all his wise knights / to him advise.

 

 

[sittything]

 

I don't hate language change! I think the adoption of new words and meanings is kinda cool. Altho a couple of things bother me ... the increasingly prevalent use of "loose" to mean "lose" being my chief peeve at the moment. Not worth getting too worked up about, though.

 

A little google-fu landed this gem:

 

George Bernard Shaw, the brilliant Irish playwright, once sent this letter to the Times of London: “There is a busybody on your staff who devotes a lot of time to chasing split infinitives: I call for the immediate dismissal of this pedant. It is of no consequence whether he decides to go quickly or to quickly go or quickly to go. The important thing is that he should go at once.”

 

 

 

I'm not sure I understand the loose/lose thing?  Are you just talking about when people select the wrong one/typo it?  Or you're hearing it spoken that way?

[Arcadia]

Yeah, it's a written thing. "I'm going to loose my mind." "How on earth did I loose my keys?" I assumed it's just a typo but I'm seeing it more and more frequently (and I'm not referring to just the forum; it's everywhere, it's everywhere!)

[sittything]

Gotcha.  I've always assumed it's like they're/their/there.   Sometimes if I type too fast my brain throws out the wrong one, even though I do in fact know the difference.  This is especially true for me and they're/there/their.  

 

 

Spellings bother me sometimes, but the one stupid thing that really gets under my skin is when someone doesn't use an Oxford comma.   I think because I had it drilled in my head as a kid that you use that serial comma.  Other than that, I assume I drive people crazy on here on the regular.  lol

[Arcadia]

Gotcha.  I've always assumed it's like they're/their/there.   Sometimes if I type too fast my brain throws out the wrong one, even though I do in fact know the difference.  This is especially true for me and they're/there/their.

I assume the same thing, but because I have tender, delicate feelings, it still bugs me. :P

 

Spellings bother me sometimes, but the one stupid thing that really gets under my skin is when someone doesn't use an Oxford comma.   I think because I had it drilled in my head as a kid that you use that serial comma.

Huh? Whut? There's more than one kind of coma? Er, comma?

 

Other than that, I assume I drive people crazy on here on the regular.  lol

Yes you do but it's nothing to do with your grammar. :D (Runs and hides before Sitty brings out the axe.)

[sittything]

Arcadia, this explains the Oxford (or serial) comma:

 

[J.P.]

Oww... never heard ot this. I have the never-a-comma-before-an-"and"-rule written in my DNA.

[sittything]

Oww... never heard ot this. I have the never-a-comma-before-an-"and"-rule written in my DNA.

 

I think that's technically a more modern rule, at least for the press (AP style does not use the serial comma).   I'm not up on who else does or doesn't use it these days. 

 

But, while researching who does or does not use the serial comma, I found this delightful article:

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/06/30/137525211/going-going-and-gone-no-the-oxford-comma-is-safe-for-now

[Arcadia]

Oww... never heard ot this. I have the never-a-comma-before-an-"and"-rule written in my DNA.

 Same here. Although the third paragraph of that article sounds like it was written for me ... or by me. ;)

 

I'm afraid that "I met two tall guys, George and Pete" and "I met two tall guys, George, and Pete" are equally ambiguous to me, the extra comma makes no difference. To make it clear, I would tell the comma to take a flying leap, and write either "I met George, Pete and two tall guys" or "I met two tall guys, named George and Pete." ! :D

[SherlockedCAMPer]

The Oxford comma is drilled in my head as well. It makes lists so much easier especially when dealing with groups/pairings. Eg I invited John and Mary, Sherlock and Molly, the girl next door, and Lestrade.

[sittything]

The Oxford comma is drilled in my head as well. It makes lists so much easier especially when dealing with groups/pairings. Eg I invited John and Mary, Sherlock and Molly, the girl next door, and Lestrade.

 

[J.P.]

Logically it makes sense.

Still there is no Oxford comma neither in German nor in Polish. I think the only exception is when you repeat the "and" .... John, and Mary, and Molly, and...

[Carol the Dabbler]

I always use a comma before the final "and," and I agree that it can be helpful in making distinctions -- IF readers actually notice, which I'm not willing to bet on.  So I tend to do as Arcadia suggests and word things more carefully -- in addition to using the comma.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Reading text that someone else wrote without the "superfluous" comma bugs me, and upon thinking a bit, I know why.  I was taught that commas naturally belong where one would pause a bit when speaking the sentence.  Maybe I'm weird, but I do tend to pause slightly before the "and" -- unless the final two items really are a pair.

 

[sittything]

Wonder if the midwest has clung to the Oxford comma more than other parts of the US?  SherlockedCAMPer, me, and Carol are all midwesterners, or at least grew up in the midwest, yes?  Arcadia, you're east coast, yes?  Boton is midwest... wanna weigh in, Boton?  

[Arcadia]

Nuh-uh, live on the East Coast, but born on the West Coast and learned grammar in about five different school districts ... so I'm an example of nuthin'! :D Although my Dad taught college English and definitely would have disapproved of this upstart "Oxford" comma.... :P (And he was from Ohio!)

[Arcadia]

Oh, I just remembered ... I took a few writing courses here and there, and I remember one of the teachers saying about the comma: "When in doubt, leave it out." Which is generally the rule I use, although I knew a writer who was positively horrified when I told her that....

 

I don't know, I just play my sentences back in my head and revise until I think they're clear, I don't actually consult the rules that much.

[sittything]

Well, so much for that theory.  lol

[Caya]

I've been taught that "when in doubt, leave it out" rule too (since German has a ton of commas, we tend to use entirely too many in English) but I've always found it kinda weird. Commas can make a world of difference.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

In my opinion, "when in doubt" applies mostly to commas between clauses.  If the sentence could be misread without a comma, I use it.  If not, depends on how long the clauses are, and what kind of mood I'm in.  If I'm writing dialog (and forum posts are just about the same thing), I generally use commas only where the speaker would pause slightly, so that the reader gets the intended rhythm of the dialog.

 

[Caya]

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

This reminds me of the alleged "Hardest Poem to Read in the English Language"...

 

Dearest creature in creation,

Study English pronunciation.

I will teach you in my verse

Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.

I will keep you, Suzy, busy,

Make your head with heat grow dizzy.

Tear in eye, your dress will tear.

So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

 

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,

Dies and diet, lord and word,

Sword and sward, retain and Britain.

(Mind the latter, how it’s written.)

Now I surely will not plague you

With such words as plaque and ague.

But be careful how you speak:

Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;

Cloven, oven, how and low,

Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

 

(There's about 10 more verses where that came from, too! :lol:)

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

Amazing how difficult that sentence is to read.  I couldn't just skim it, basically had to examine it word by word.  Can't imagine how anyone who learned to read strictly by the look-say / whole-word method would be able to handle it!