The Language (and travel) Thread

[Carol the Dabbler]

I've gone back several pages on this thread, and all I see is Americans and Germans.  What happened to all the British?!  There used to be lots of British people on this thread.  Next thing you know, they'll be claiming that we Americans and Germans have taken over the thread -- but what are we supposed to do -- hogtie them and bring them back?

 

Yoo-hoo guys!  Feel free to come back.  Any time.  Any time at all.

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

tea tea etiquette etiquette pass the biscuits please

[T.o.b.y]

Happy first Advent! Tell me, do other countries have Advent calendars and these things:

 

 

as well?

[SherlockedCAMPer]

The US does. We'll be lighting the first Advent Candle at church today. Friends of mine are scheduled to do it.

[T.o.b.y]

Lovely! Do people have them in their homes as well, or is it more of a church thing?

 

Where I live, most people make (or nowadays, buy...) their own wreath and have it in their living room. I know some families who light all candles during the first week, one at a time, "so they'll burn down evenly", but I prefer to really have one candle be the first, the next the second, etc.

 

Sometimes I wonder whether it's wrong of me to observe holidays like Christmas and have Advent candles and sing carols when I'm not actually Christian. I grew up in a Christian culture, but I'm not baptized or want to be. On the other hand, if there is a god, why would he (or she or it or whatever) mind if I decorate my home and hum a few old songs about a baby in a manger? All seems fairly harmless.

 

(Sometimes I wonder whether I worry too much...)

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Varies. For my son and I it is at church only but I've heard of people who do have one at home as well.

[Arcadia]

Sometimes I wonder whether it's wrong of me to observe holidays like Christmas and have Advent candles and sing carols when I'm not actually Christian. I grew up in a Christian culture, but I'm not baptized or want to be. On the other hand, if there is a god, why would he (or she or it or whatever) mind if I decorate my home and hum a few old songs about a baby in a manger? All seems fairly harmless.

 

(Sometimes I wonder whether I worry too much...)

My brother-in-law is Jewish, and he is totally into all our Christmas traditions ... more than anyone else in the family, sometimes! I don't consider myself Christian either, but the holiday has a lot of meaning to me nevertheless. Soooo... I don't mind you observing Christmas if you don't mind me observing Christmas!

[Carol the Dabbler]

The most avid Christmas-tree people I know are Hindus.  But they're Americans (he was born here, she's an immigrant) and they see Christmas as an American tradition.

 

As for Advent wreaths and calendars, I had never heard of either when I was a kid, but I think the calendars are fairly common here nowadays.  They can be religious, secular, or a combination, but all of them count down to Christmas Day.  There's typically a little flap or window for each day, and when you open it, there's a special picture or a little toy or a piece of candy.  One type lets you assemble a nativity scene day by day.

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Go ahead and celebrate Christmas. It actually is based on a secular holiday and if we were to study our astronomy & Bible together, Jesus was born in early October during/ near Sukkot (feast of tabernacles) and not December (the rainy season in Israel when shepherds did not have their sheep in the fields).

[Schlauer Fuchs]

I celebrate Christmas, too, even though I'm agnostic with strong tendency towards atheism. So what I celebrate is not Jesus' birth but abstract concepts like love, hope, family and friendship. But it's all wrapped up in the Christian Christmas traditions - including of course a wreath (self-made), an advent calendar, a Christmas tree, decorations, Christmas music and of course a Christmas tree. The only thing I refuse to do is to join the rest of my family when they go to church on the evening of the 24th. I always prepare dinner while  they're away.

 

One constituent of the pre-Christmas season that is absolutely common in Germany and that seemed to be widely unknown to the Americans I met are Christmas Markets. When I was in Minnesota, there was no such thing in Minneapolis/St.Paul, and since an American friend so wanted to visit one we did a weekend trip to Chicago where they had the "Christkindl Market". Now they have one in Minneapolis as well (so my friends tell me). Are there Christmas Markets in other parts of the US (or other countries!) as well?

[SherlockedCAMPer]

How do I not know about a Christmas market in Minneapolis and I (more or less) live there. I know we get a lot of holiday boutiques that are 1 or 2 day events.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Go ahead and celebrate Christmas. It actually is based on a secular holiday and if we were to study our astronomy & Bible together, Jesus was born in early October during/ near Sukkot (feast of tabernacles) and not December (the rainy season in Israel when shepherds did not have their sheep in the fields).

 

Oh, that's interesting.  What is the clue that it was near Sukkot?  (I had heard years ago that it might have been in the spring, since the shepherds would be more attentive to their flocks -- even at night -- during lambing season.)

 

I celebrate Christmas, too, even though I'm agnostic.... The only thing I refuse to do is to join the rest of my family when they go to church on the evening of the 24th. I always prepare dinner while  they're away.

 

One constituent of the pre-Christmas season that is absolutely common in Germany and that seemed to be widely unknown to the Americans I met are Christmas Markets....

 

It's good of you to stay home and fix dinner -- otherwise the churchgoers would come back to either a cold dinner or a long wait!

 

I've heard of the Christmas Market in, I believe, Chicago -- the auto club magazine had a writeup on it a year or two ago.  But I don't think there are any closer ones, and I've never been to any.  They sound interesting, like a Christmas-themed combination of a flea market and a farmer's market.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

Go ahead and celebrate Christmas. It actually is based on a secular holiday and if we were to study our astronomy & Bible together, Jesus was born in early October during/ near Sukkot (feast of tabernacles) and not December (the rainy season in Israel when shepherds did not have their sheep in the fields).

Oh, that's interesting. What is the clue that it was near Sukkot? (I had heard years ago that it might have been in the spring, since the shepherds would be more attentive to their flocks -- even at night -- during lambing season.)

There's a couple 1) the king planet (Jupiter) lined up under Virgo (the virgin constellation) when he was born and was in alignment for a few days. Which happened again the following June. 2) Also the tax season (when the census was taken) in Israel back then was during Sukkot.

[Arcadia]

One constituent of the pre-Christmas season that is absolutely common in Germany and that seemed to be widely unknown to the Americans I met are Christmas Markets. When I was in Minnesota, there was no such thing in Minneapolis/St.Paul, and since an American friend so wanted to visit one we did a weekend trip to Chicago where they had the "Christkindl Market". Now they have one in Minneapolis as well (so my friends tell me). Are there Christmas Markets in other parts of the US (or other countries!) as well?

I think the closest thing I've seen to that in my area are the Christmas light shows -- there's a huge one near me where you drive through the park looking at all the light sculptures, then at the end you can buy hot drinks and crafts. The drinks/crafts part of it is quite small, though, and most people just do the drive through.

 

I see on CNN, however, that there are several places in the States that have these, and one's only a couple hours from me! Hmmmmm, I think I'm getting an idea.......

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

Go ahead and celebrate Christmas. It actually is based on a secular holiday and if we were to study our astronomy & Bible together, Jesus was born in early October during/ near Sukkot (feast of tabernacles) and not December (the rainy season in Israel when shepherds did not have their sheep in the fields).

Oh, that's interesting. What is the clue that it was near Sukkot? (I had heard years ago that it might have been in the spring, since the shepherds would be more attentive to their flocks -- even at night -- during lambing season.)

There's a couple 1) the king planet (Jupiter) lined up under Virgo (the virgin constellation) when he was born and was in alignment for a few days. Which happened again the following June. 2) Also the tax season (when the census was taken) in Israel back then was during Sukkot.

 

Wow, that's really interesting indeed. I bet Bible history is fascinating.

 

So what secular holiday is Christmas based on?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I've seen a number of those light displays in various cities, though I think several of them have ceased operation (due to the cost, presumably).  Some of them are/were really elaborate.

 

[Arcadia]

Well, ours has solved that problem ... you have to pay to get into it.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

There are different discussions in that including an old roman holiday and the winter solstice. And yes Bible history is fascinating. I love history in general and am intrigued by Bible history (& now WWII as well).

[sittything]

We have a magnetic advent calendar similar to this at home.  I've never done or seen the candle thing, though.  When I was a kid my mom bought the little cardboard advent calendars where you open the door each day and there is a chocolate inside.

   

 

Here in Philly they do a Christmas Village each year near City Hall.   http://www.philachristmas.com/28-0-About.html

 

Christmas was originally scheduled around the winter solstice celebrations, correct?  I know a lot of our Christmas traditions, like Christmas trees, have roots in pagan traditions.

 

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

I never quite know what to make of electric lights. On the one hand, I do like the sight of cities at Christmas time with all the sparkle and twinkle, on the other hand, I really much prefer real candles. I'd never put anything on my Christmas tree (or Advent wreath) that has to be plugged in. Even when I was really, really little and there was a cat in the house, we had wax candles and matches everywhere this time of year.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I've seen pictures if the candle tradition. But have never done it. I've since seen the electric candle version of that which I haven't done either.

[J.P.]

Sorry, I gave up on the page 17. Maybe later I will look through the rest of this thread.
 
I just start to understand why I suddenly cannot understand the half of what I read - not to mention the confusion in my ears. I remember a line said by someone (general Patton?) about two nations divided by the common language. :P
What I learned in school was supposed to be British English, but the most I learned by using message boards and such, but right now I realize that I was hanging around in the US or "English as foreign language" parts of the www. Now it feels like everyone is using a strange slang.    ;)
 

They really do say "Och aye the noo" in parts of Scotland 

 

This is quite old post but it made my jaw hit the floor. How do you pronounce this?

Because as I read it in my own pronunciation I immediately thought about a word used in the area I live now (Swabia, southern Germany): heidenei (hay-deh-nay) meaning "oh, my".  
 

And now, I have to rant about the German dialogues in Sherlock. 
They are... RIDICULOUS! 
It was painful - and I am not even a native speaker in German.

In Many happy Returns the one guy is speaking proper German, but I don't think he is a native speaker, the others are a disaster. 

Herrgottnochmal this is such a great show, why do they have to ruin it?! Are there no native speakers around? If not for the actors - at least for the dubbing? Take fans, they would be happy to do it for getting their names mentioned in credits! 
 
It happens so often and so many languages are "raped" in movies. This might seem like nitpicking, but such little things are able to kick me out of a show's universe for minutes, that's why I hate them so much. The other nitpicks in Sherlock are Sherlocks violin playing and typing, BTW. 

[T.o.b.y]

 

And now, I have to rant about the German dialogues in Sherlock.

They are... RIDICULOUS! 

It was painful - and I am not even a native speaker in German.

In Many happy Returns the one guy is speaking proper German, but I don't think he is a native speaker, the others are a disaster. 

Herrgottnochmal this is such a great show, why do they have to ruin it?! Are there no native speakers around? If not for the actors - at least for the dubbing? Take fans, they would be happy to do it for getting their names mentioned in credits!

 

:lol: What a marvelous idea! Okay, BBC, here I am! I speak perfect German and I'd be happy to do any voice-over you want for nothing! Heck, you could probably get me to pay you to do it, under certain conditions :D

 

I've noticed the funny, not-native-sounding German in Sherlock, but for some reason, it doesn't bother me all that much. What does bothers me hugely is the German dub. I am so glad that the UK has the same DVD regional code as we do, so I can get my versions from there and avoid the German altogether.

 

[J.P.]

Let's write a petition. 

 

We could also proofread the dialogues, so they don't look like attempts made in the fist week of learning the language. 

 

I bought the show on Amazon Instant Video first - it was the weekend after Christmas, and I just couldn't wait! Some of the episodes were multilingual, but others weren't, and I took the german ones, because without subtitles I would be completely lost. I had to buy TEH twice - I wanted to hear the restaurant scene in English. 

 

Have the German Sherlock DVDs no original sound? I bought the UK version, because it was cheaper.

 

I'm very sensitive about languages for some reason. When it goes wrong - in movies when the person is supposed to be a national speaker - it makes me cringe like the awful sound made by rubbing styrofoam on glass. Auch!

[Caya]

The German DVDs/BluRays do have both English and German audio, but the episodes themselves are German. Yeah, I didn't think that would make a difference either, right up to the press conference scene in Study where the room was filled with a cloud of floating "Falsch" texts . Ended up ordering that all-three-series box from BBC so I would finally have the wholly-OV version.