The Language (and travel) Thread

[Van Buren Supernova]

Either Coke, full term as in Coca Cola, or not as common 'soda', because soda refers also to other carbonated drinks, which we then have to mention the brands if there are more than one choices.

 

For Language, I'm always wondering about how some words have opposite meanings, but with combinations become similar, like 'fat chance' and 'slim chance' with obviously fat and slim, horrible and terrible with horrific and terrific. Ah?

 

Many other languages use same word for multiple unrelated meanings, sometimes with same or different pronunciation, but I don't recall ones like like example I gave.

 

And I managed to read a couple of ACD Holmes, was 'ejaculate' :D used that way back then? :D

[Arcadia]

By "that way", do you mean was it used in a, er, non-bodily function way? :d Yes.

 

The art group I used to belong to had bylaws that were written back in the 1970's (and were probably copied from a much older document.) One line said something like "the Guild encourages discussion and intercourse between artists" ... meaning, artists were encouraged to share ideas. But the girls in the group kept giggling at it so much, I finally rewrote the bylaws in more "modern" terms. (No wonder artists have such low reputations!)

[Carol the Dabbler]

As you have apparently guessed, "ejaculate" used to mean "exclaim." ;) Conan Doyle's Watson ejaculated a *lot*.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think "terrific" used to mean something like "terrifying," but then changed to its current meaning, probably with a few intermediate meanings in between.

 

One of my favorite authors, Rex Stout, wrote his Nero Wolfe mysteries during roughly the middle half of the twentieth century, and some of his words have clearly changed even in that relatively short time. The one that comes to mind is "fantastic," by which he meant "unbelievable" or "preposterous." Nowadays "incredible" seems to be making the same change.

[Van Buren Supernova]

By "that way", do you mean was it used in a, er, non-bodily function way? :d Yes.

 

The art group I used to belong to had bylaws that were written back in the 1970's (and were probably copied from a much older document.) One line said something like "the Guild encourages discussion and intercourse between artists" ... meaning, artists were encouraged to share ideas. But the girls in the group kept giggling at it so much, I finally rewrote the bylaws in more "modern" terms. (No wonder artists have such low reputations!)

You'd find me as one of the fools who laugh at such thing. XD

Sometimes lost in translation between language can be very amusing, and that works between English as well. You have no idea how confused I was with Nat King Cole's song when 'gay' used to mean something else.

 

I think "terrific" used to mean something like "terrifying," but then changed to its current meaning, probably with a few intermediate meanings in between.

One of my favorite authors, Rex Stout, wrote his Nero Wolfe mysteries during roughly the middle half of the twentieth century, and some of his words have clearly changed even in that relatively short time. The one that comes to mind is "fantastic," by which he meant "unbelievable" or "preposterous." Nowadays "incredible" seems to be making the same change.

Whoa... I didn't know that. Thanks.

I also notice ACD used a lot of word 'intimate' very loosely.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I also notice ACD used a lot of word 'intimate' very loosely.

 

I think it just had a different meaning back then. "Intimate friends" were close friends. "Intimate conversation" was private conversation. And so on.

 

 

[Arcadia]

Still means that, as far as I'm concerned. Just have to pay attention to context.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Yes, it's understandable from the context, although the ones I found are less clear cut than Toby's example. In another way, I can also see how some might have misunderstood, therefore the conspiracy.

 

I'd say English is quite a friendly language, and I'm glad it's still more international than... Mandarin for example. I tried to learn that and it was tedious.

[bedelia1984]

In Ireland we use 'fizzy drinks' 'soft drinks' and 'minerals' for those sorts of drinks.

[Carol the Dabbler]

We say "soft drinks" as well, but I think that's more of a technical / marketing term, whereas soda or pop is more everyday vernacular.

[Artemis]

A language question for y'all:

 

In your country (or your part of your country if it makes a difference), what is the generic term for sweet carbonated beverages such as Coca-Cola or similar fruit-flavored drinks?

 

Around here, it's usually "pop," but in the Eastern US it's generally "soda," around Boston the traditional term is "tonic," and in parts of the South it's "coke." If I'm talking to a mixed audience, I'll usually say "soda pop," a term that's understood pretty much all over the country.

 

In my part of the country, "pop" is the common term, but "soda" is pretty common as well.  Never "coke" or "tonic".  If I'm in another part of the country I'll usually use "soda", as it seems to be generally understood by everyone.  If I accidentally say "pop" I will sometimes get vacant looks.

 

A heads-up if you've never crossed the Atlantic before... lemonade in the UK is not lemonade in the US.  I was bewildered, one fine day in Scotland, to be handed a carbonated beverage when I asked for a lemonade.  It was good though.  =]

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Right, you gotta watch out for those multi-definition words.

 

The first time I ventured out of Indiana was to attend a university on the east coast. My first night in the dorm, an east-coast gal asked if I wanted to go down to the basement for a soda. To me, this meant an ice-cream soda, which surprised me, so I asked if there was a snack bar down there. She said no, just a machine, at which point I began to suspect I had misinterpreted her. And sure enough, there was an ordinary pop machine.

 

So "soda" isn't foolproof either. When in doubt, I usually say either "soda-pop" or "soft drink."

[Doe]

Coca Cola = Kola

 

Sparkling Water = Soda

 

Limonade = Limonata

[Carol the Dabbler]

Doe, do you have other flavors of such drinks, like orange flavor or root beer?  What are they called?

 

Also, is your Limonata carbonated?

 

For the benefit anyone who knows only the British definition of lemonade (a lemon-flavored carbonated beverage), I should explain that American lemonade is a simple mixture of water, sugar, and lemon juice (preferably freshly squeezed). Nowadays, stores carry "lemonade" made with lemon flavor, which I suppose people must be buying (and if you see "lemonade" on a restaurant's menu, it'll probably be that kind).  The real thing is generally available only at home or at carnivals (where they'll often squeeze the lemon before your very eyes).  Real lemonade is yummy.  The fake kind is about like you'd imagine.

[Arcadia]

We used to have a lemon tree and made our own lemonade. Yummmmm!

[Doe]

Carol,

 

Water, sugar, lemon and folium menthae.

 

Somtimes with soda.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Mint leaves in lemonade?  That's an interesting variation.  Don't think I'd ever heard of that.

 

****************

 

British and American English both use the term "flapjack," but it seems to mean two fairly different things (and oddly enough, neither of them is risque).

 

In the US, a "flapjack" is a pancake  :toss:  meaning something like a thick, soft crepe, traditionally served hot with butter and maple syrup.  If you're familiar with Ethiopian injeras, those are very much like sourdough pancakes (which is one traditional variety).

 

I have a vague impression that British "flapjacks" are something like Rice Krispies Treats, but would appreciate a more accurate description.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Having gotten no British responses, I looked up "flapjack" on the internet (duh) and the British version is a baked concoction of rolled oats and other things, basically what we'd call a granola bar over here. The American definition is the original meaning of the word, though.

 

I stay packed except for dresses, those get hung if/when they have to be brought with.

OK, so that's where I've heard that sort of phrase -- Minnesota. (I used to date a fellow from the Twin Cities, and we went up there a lot, but that's been ages.)

 

Anyhow, what I'm talking about is where you'll use the word "with" without an explicit object. Where I would say, for example, either "Are you going with us?" or simply "Are you going?" you might split the difference and say "Are you going with?"

 

This reminds me of a British usage. If, for example, I were answering the question "Are you going to do that?" I might say either "I might do that" or simply "I might," but some British people would say "I might do" -- which sounds really strange to my ears.

[T.o.b.y]

I heard a character say "I'll come with" (instead of "I'll come with you") in a movie once (American, not British) and it completely threw me off kilter. At first I thought they had cut part of the dialog or something. Interesting to learn that's a common way of speaking in some regions. Maybe the audience was supposed to infer something about the character's background?

[Carol the Dabbler]

More likely the script writer's background, unless the story was set in Minnesota, in which case it would be a nice example of attention to detail.  I doubt that it was supposed to be any sort of clue, since I doubt that most Americans would recognize that as a typically Minnesotan way of speaking.

 

Which raises the question, what regional American speech characteristics *are* widely recognized?  Well, there's "y'all," obviously, from the southeast (though its use is becoming more widespread).  Probably "ayuh" (basically "yup") from northern New England (though I'm not sure just how widely recognized that is).  Oh, and definitely "pahk the cah" or "paak the caa" ("park the car") from Boston.  Use of "d" instead of a "th" sound (like "dem" for "them") is often used to indicate working-class Chicago speech, but it's not unique to that area; in fact, it's also used to indicate New Jersey speech.  What else?

 

By the way, people from the US will generally recognize Canadian speech from two characteristics:  1) frequent use of the word "eh?" (as in "That's a big one, eh?") and the distinctive "ou" diphthong.  Many US folks will mimic the Canadian "ou" as "oo" (e.g., "oot and aboot"), but I hear it as somewhere between "oo" and "ou," being closer to "oo" in the Maritime (far eastern) provinces and closer to "ou" further west.

[Doe]

Mint leaves in lemonade? That's an interesting variation. Don't think I'd ever heard of that.

 

 

It is got a fresh taste. You should try it.

 

https://www.diyetkolik.com/site_media/media/nutrition_images/naneli-limonata.jpg

[Arcadia]

I just bought something that is lime juice and mint ... and it is DELICIOUS. Now if I could only remember where I bought it.

 

"Go with" and "might do" are used here in the DC area, although we're such a polyglot here, I couldn't begin to tell you whether it's a Southern thing or picked up from somewhere else. I've even started using it in the last 2-3 years. But it sounds sort of quaintly Southern-by-way-of-Britain to my transplanted-Californian ears. Could just be so many of my friends watch nothing but British programs, too.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yes, I think British and American English, after diverging for four hundred years, are beginning to re-merge, mostly due to us watching each other's television and movies.

[Van Buren Supernova]

And Americans being confused with British's, and vice versa, you imagine how the rest of us non English speakers feel. :p :D

[T.o.b.y]

Yes, I think British and American English, after diverging for four hundred years, are beginning to re-merge, mostly due to us watching each other's television and movies.

You mean it's actually okay that I like to say "bloody" a lot? Awesome. Btw, do British people really do that or is it just British characters on TV?