The Language (and travel) Thread

[Carol the Dabbler]

If it were just British characters on American TV, I wouldn't be so sure -- but it's also British characters on British TV, so I'd say it's for real.

 

"Bloody" is a fairly popular expression in the US as well, but I think we mostly use it as a fake or jocular swear word (since it isn't a real one here), rather than the fairly strong expression that it apparently still is in the UK.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Bloody is definitely a real swear word in the U.K. I had a former co-worker from there and it's the equivalent of saying mother f***** here in the US even if the 2 are not always interchangeable in a conversation.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yet you can say it on the BBC (where all forms of the F-word are apparently forbidden). Strange, isn't it?

[Arcadia]

I've noticed you can say quite a few words on BBC that you can't on the public airwaves here. It always startles me.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

When Benedict was on the Tonight Show a few months back, he remembered as he was beeped that swearing is not allowed yet on network television even when it's late night.

[Carol the Dabbler]

What station is Graham Norton's show on?  Apparently you can say just about anything there -- is that because it's on late at night?

 

Here in the US, the only place you can use officially-naughty words is on cable.  If a show is shown on broadcast televison, then it's considered to be using public resources (i.e., the "air"), and is therefore under government control.  They reportedly have a list of very specific words that cannot be uttered, regardless of time of day or type of program.  Since Sherlock is on broadcast TV here, it's de facto under US government control.  It used to be that they could "hide" the bad words (such as John's "shit" in Scandal) in the eight minutes that weren't used on PBS anyhow, but now that PBS is airing the full 90 minutes, they have to be  more creative (e.g., the visual "uck off" in TLD).  Or they can choose their words with care (i.e., John's very precise enunciation of "every officer you've ever made feel like a tit" in Reichenbach -- because you can't say "tits" (plural) on an American broadcast.

 

The list does change over time, though.  I remember back a few years ago, when "they" apparently decided it was OK to say "crap" on television.  For the next few months, it seemed like every show we watched (e.g., Friends) made a point of saying "crap," to the point where it got kind of ridiculous.

[T.o.b.y]

It fascinates me how on the one hand, most Americans I know or hear speak on the street whenever I am in the country swear more than most Germans and also use more drastic words, but at the same time, swearing seems to be a much bigger issue in the media. I have never seen "language" listed as a reason for age-restricting a movie in Germany, for example.

 

On a completely unrelated note, I have been having the worst time with German instruction manuals lately. For example, I bought a digital thermometer and simply couldn't figure out how to set the time and the date. I followed what I understood to be the instructions but it just wouldn't work. Finally, I gave up and begged my husband to help me, who, however, was busy at his computer and really did not feel like being bothered, so he suggested I try the English instructions. Tadaa - I had the settings right within a minute. And my German is actually better than my English these days.

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

What station is Graham Norton's show on?  Apparently you can say just about anything there -- is that because it's on late at night?

 

 

In the US it's on BBCAmerica (1 of the few actual British shows on that station) and I thought it was on BBC1 based on tweets from said sector of the BBC.

[J.P.]

On a completely unrelated note, I have been having the worst time with German instruction manuals lately. For example, I bought a digital thermometer and simply couldn't figure out how to set the time and the date. I followed what I understood to be the instructions but it just wouldn't work. Finally, I gave up and begged my husband to help me, who, however, was busy at his computer and really did not feel like being bothered, so he suggested I try the English instructions. Tadaa - I had the settings right within a minute. And my German is actually better than my English these days.

 

Might be because the instructions are written and printed somewhere in Far East, and their English is better than German.

 

PS I read instructions only when deducing doesn't work.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I was just about to say the same thing.  English-language instructions for products made in Japan seem to be much better these days (hardly any humor there at all any more).  Maybe they've just recently diversified into German.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Come to think of it, I once programmed our digital thermostat (albeit s-l-o-w-l-y) by following the directions in a Spanish-language manual (because I couldn't find the English one).  It worked fine, and I even learned (but have since forgotten) the Spanish phrase for Daylight Saving Time.

 

The English manual did turn up later.

 

[J.P.]

I've got a kind of user manual in English with one of my dolls (made in Korea), and it was one of the more amusing readings in my life.

[J.P.]

One thing from Sherlock still kind of bothers me linguistically: It's the "you see but not observe" line. Because to me the feeling of the words is exactly the other way round. To me observe means rather look than notice. If I would be to see this kind of wisdom, I would say "you observe (look) but not see"

 

Am I wrong, or did the meanings of the words have changed.

[Arcadia]

I understand what you mean, because I've wondered myself sometimes what the distinction is. I tend to use those words pretty interchangeably, myself.

 

But technically, the line is correct: "to see" is to perceive something with the eyes, and "to observe" has more to do with recognizing the significance of what you see. I.e., to see is "merely" a mechanical process; you open your eyes, and they register whatever is in front of them. Your don't have to be "thinking" about it to see it. But observing is a more cognitive function; your direct your eyes to look for details, for example, and you "think" about what they might mean.

 

But yeah, there might be a way to phrase it that makes the distinction clearer. "You see, but you do not perceive." How's that?

[J.P.]

Than it has to do with the internal translation.

[Arcadia]

Possibly, but also, how the words are defined and how they're used aren't always precisely the same ... I'm willing to bet I'm not the only person who treats those two words as if they mean basically the same thing.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Alex is an amateur astronomer, so he will spend some nights "observing" -- a more structured activity than merely going outside and looking at the stars.  Or one might visit an observation booth/platform/tower in order to get a really good view of something, in which case it would behoove one to pay attention to it.  So those examples support Sherlock's statement.

 

On the other hand, if I hold out my hand for something you have and say "Let me see that," it means I'm planning to subject it to close scrutiny.  Or if someone says "Wow -- did you see that?" they mean did you notice it and realize the implications.  So "see" can carry some of the same implications as observe -- however, I don't think the opposite is true.  I don't offhand think of any use of "observe" that implies merely allowing light rays to hit one's retinas.

 

It's kind of ironic that we don't generally make much of a distinction between the two words -- as an analogy to Sherlock's phrase, we hear the difference but don't notice it.

 

[T.o.b.y]

Well, it's a quote from the Doyle stories which are over 100 years old, after all. The use and meaning of many words have changed since then.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Is it a precise quote, then?  I wasn't sure.

[T.o.b.y]

Is it a precise quote, then? I wasn't sure.

It's from A Scandal in Bohemia.

[Doe]

The English teachers are teaching English all of them. British and American. But I don't remember any word that is British or American.

 

For example: Zebra crossing, pedestrian crossing, crosswalk.

 

I confuse British English with American English.

[Caya]

Most of us foreigners do, in some way or other - I remember when, during my first stay in the US, I baffled my listeners with the statement that I would be there for a fortnight. :lol: Our teacher was strictly British, and most spoken English I'd heard to that point came from Spitting Image, which didn't exactly help (this was the 80s and long before global CNN, let alone the Internet). On the positive side, I can still do a moderately convincing British accent.

[Factorielle]

It seems that every english teacher I had were strictly british x) Though we were given some lists with british/american differences. But for example, my current english teacher likes to "trashtalk" american english, saying it's not even a real language, claiming he doesn't understand what the student says if it's an american word... :p With irony of course, but I have the feeling that here in France english teachers feel closer to british english than american english.

 

Still, as I hang around the internet, I often use some american slang when I talk. :'p During orals, teachers notes that it kind of clashes with my mostly british accent.

 

(Hi there I'm worming my way in o/ )

[Doe]

Most of us foreigners do, in some way or other - I remember when, during my first stay in the US, I baffled my listeners with the statement that I would be there for a fortnight. :lol: Our teacher was strictly British, and most spoken English I'd heard to that point came from Spitting Image, which didn't exactly help (this was the 80s and long before global CNN, let alone the Internet). On the positive side, I can still do a moderately convincing British accent.

:D

[T.o.b.y]

It seems that every english teacher I had were strictly british x) Though we were given some lists with british/american differences. But for example, my current english teacher likes to "trashtalk" american english, saying it's not even a real language, claiming he doesn't understand what the student says if it's an american word... :p With irony of course, but I have the feeling that here in France english teachers feel closer to british english than american english.

 

Still, as I hang around the internet, I often use some american slang when I talk. :'p During orals, teachers notes that it kind of clashes with my mostly british accent.

 

(Hi there I'm worming my way in o/ )

I got into trouble as well with English teachers in Germany because I speak American English and I can't change that, it's just the language I grew up with at home. I always thought it was kind of offensive saying it's not a "real" language.