Shoot the Wall (A.K.A. The Rant Thread)

[Van Buren Supernova]

On 9/28/2020 at 3:56 AM, T.o.b.y said:

That a family member who shall remain nameless has, unasked and unprompted, bought me a hideous coat with hideous (hopefully faux!) fur. Or rather bought it on my behalf,

Why.. why would anyone buy anything on other's behalf, and especially got it so wrong?? Does she know you at all, or is it her blunder that she tries to get others to compensate that? I say don't pay her, and don't take it, be firm about it, you will be blameless and it will spare you similar problems in the future. (of course she would blame you but it's very hard to be spotless with these kind of people, they will blame you for other things anyway)

10 hours ago, J.P. said:

The oldest and closest friend of mine "does not believe in the pandemic". But that it's big pharma complot and that it's not worse than a flue regarding over-mortality. We've had have differences in some cases, but this is too much. I've already lost my house doctor, who refuses to wear a mask, now this. Among many, many bad things. Still 3 months to go until this year is over.

If a year ago someone told me we have pandemic, and the biggest enemy is people who refuse to believe and take precautions, I would say human are smarter than that.

But now I have lost all my expectation, and I am the idiot for thinking that.

 

[besleybean]

I despair in humanity and refuse to dumb down!

[Carol the Dabbler]

54 minutes ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

If a year ago someone told me we have pandemic, and the biggest enemy is people who refuse to believe and take precautions, I would say human are smarter than that.

But now I have lost all my expectation, and I am the idiot for thinking that.

Nope, not idiot.  I think most people warranted your trust, it's just that the exceptions are so noticeable.  (Kinda like with most things.)

 

[T.o.b.y]

12 hours ago, J.P. said:

The oldest and closest friend of mine "does not believe in the pandemic". But that it's big pharma complot and that it's not worse than a flue regarding over-mortality. We've had have differences in some cases, but this is too much. I've already lost my house doctor, who refuses to wear a mask, now this. Among many, many bad things. Still 3 months to go until this year is over.

Your doctor refuses to wear a mask?! Did he say why? Does he think it's all a pharma conspiracy too or what?

I can understand that the situation is so overwhelming for the general public that some people resort to complete distrust and disbelief but a medical professional...?

Were you able to find a new GP at least?

The masks don't bother me at all btw, it's just a bit of a hassle trying to drink enough at work. Sanitize hands, take off mask, put mask in designated spot, take sip from water bottle, sanitize hands, put mask back on, sanitize hands, clean designated spot... Too often I don't feel like I have the time for that and end up dehydrated at the end of a shift. But otherwise, personally, I don't need 100% rock solid evidence that masks are effective to wear one atm. I think it's enough that the practice is most likely effective because the disadvantages are minimal. Cost, ok, but even FFPs etc have become cheaper now and we spend a lot more on stuff where the benefit is less certain.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I may have misinterpreted,  but when J.P. mentioned her "house doctor," I assumed she meant the person who does home repairs for her.  You know, like a "cat doctor" works on cats.

 

[T.o.b.y]

20 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I may have misinterpreted,  but when J.P. mentioned her "house doctor," I assumed she meant the person who does home repairs for her.  You know, like a "cat doctor" works on cats.

 

In German, your family doctor or GP is called a "Hausarzt", literally "house doctor", so I assumed that was who she meant... What did you mean, J.P.?

[J.P.]

Yes. The pitfalls of direct translation
I will have to find another one. A bit inconvenient because he was few houses away from me.
As for my friend it sounds like the typical conspiracy combo. "Someone wants to make money on obligatory vaccines", "less people died than from the flue and nobody makes any fuss about flu". The usual stuff. And if you ask questions, no answers but another set of usual cliches. After trying to explain things to people for 6 months, this feels like a stab in the back.

I started working from home this week. The internet connection is a big problem (I'm working with files in gigabyte sizes), but finally I'm out of the office, with bunch of another corona-ingoring twats. I will come back when I have the room for myself again.

But it wouldn't be 2020, if it were only good news. The guy who was organizing our team at work got fired, along with other 3 ppl I know. I don't understand how we are supposed to work now, we are only designers, none of us has any idea about financial part of the job. Writing bills. Comparing prices for print production… I mean, he was a jerk, but I don't want to do his job.

[Carol the Dabbler]

45 minutes ago, J.P. said:

The guy who was organizing our team at work got fired, along with other 3 ppl I know. I don't understand how we are supposed to work now, we are only designers, none of us has any idea about financial part of the job.

Are they planning to hire a replacement?

 

[J.P.]

I doubt it. They have fired 60 ppl. for economical reasons. Reducing the staff. I would expect they fired me, but his position is kind of crucial, I have no idea how they think we are about to work.

I'm glad I'm at home and miss all the drama though. They will tell me when it's all decided.

I feel like the whole beeping world is falling apart around me. It started with a broken fridge and look where we are now. 😕
Did I wrote that I loathe leap years?

[besleybean]

As my daughter's birthday is 29 Feb...I love them!

[Fantasy Lover]

So last week I did an internship which required me to take a buss and the train, to do so I needed to get up at 6 am. It was exhausting, and the point of this internship was to see if I liked doing it as an official job, and I could be hired if I liked it.

But what annoyed me the most is this: I declined the offer to work there and my mom, my grandfather and my boss were all like "I needed to get up early and take to train as well, you just need to get used to it." My grandfather even gave me the "when I was your age." treatment. It really pissed me off, I am NOT you! Maybe I could have gotten used to getting up at 6 am, but during my entire internship my gut kept me awake by screaming at me that it was a bad idea and I barely slept because of it! I was a VERY cranky at the end of my internship, thankfully it didn't last long.

[T.o.b.y]

On 10/5/2020 at 9:07 PM, Fantasy Lover said:

So last week I did an internship which required me to take a buss and the train, to do so I needed to get up at 6 am. It was exhausting, and the point of this internship was to see if I liked doing it as an official job, and I could be hired if I liked it.

But what annoyed me the most is this: I declined the offer to work there and my mom, my grandfather and my boss were all like "I needed to get up early and take to train as well, you just need to get used to it." My grandfather even gave me the "when I was your age." treatment. It really pissed me off, I am NOT you! Maybe I could have gotten used to getting up at 6 am, but during my entire internship my gut kept me awake by screaming at me that it was a bad idea and I barely slept because of it! I was a VERY cranky at the end of my internship, thankfully it didn't last long.

Don't you love it when other people decide what you need...? 

My rant of the day is a mommy rant: gendered kids' products. My little son has the misfortune of liking a children's book character who is a little girl and apparently, advertising people have decided that's reason enough to market any associated products exclusively to girls. Now, of course my standpoint is let the kid wear, use and play with whatever he likes as long as it's safe and age appropriate, but I remember being bullied myself a little too well not to worry. Especially since he's already showing signs of having received negative attention for this. We spent 15 minutes at the drug store yesterday looking for a toothbrush for daycare that wasn't pink but still had the picture that he wanted (and before you say wow, your kid sounds spoiled, let me assure you I am aware and to quote my mom: "in our family, we call that indulged."). And not because I objected to pink. I saw his little hand reach out, retreat, reach out, retreat, the little brain obviously going "I want this but it will get me teased, what do I do?" and I felt so frustrated. 

He's three. Three! He shouldn't have to worry about this sort of thing at all! What the heck is wrong with people?!? 

[Carol the Dabbler]

It's always been easier to be a girl, I think.  You can wear frilly dresses if you want, or you can wear jeans and sweatshirts if you prefer, and nobody -- well, hardly anybody -- will think twice about it.

You'd think the toothbrush people would realize that even some girls prefer blue, or green, or yellow -- wouldn't you?

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 9/27/2020 at 3:56 PM, T.o.b.y said:

a family member who shall remain nameless has, unasked and unprompted, bought me a hideous coat with hideous (hopefully faux!) fur. Or rather bought it on my behalf, because she expects me to pay her back for this... thing... That I wouldn't even want as a gift. And it can't be returned because it was on sale. Which is why she got it, it was "such a great bargain". 

Has that been resolved yet?

I agree with your later post, you really need to let her know -- as gently and as vaguely as possible -- that it really isn't your sort of thing.  If you're lucky, she bought it because she likes it -- would it fit her?  If so, you could follow up the "not my sort of thing" line by suggesting that she keep it and enjoy it.

On the other hand, she may think that you have the flair to wear something daring like that, whereas she'd feel silly in it.  I once bought a piece of jewelry for a friend, thinking although it was very beautiful it was too dainty for me to carry off -- but just right for her.  Some years later, she pulled out the same pin and asked if I'd like to have it -- someone had given it to her, she said, but even though it was very pretty, she really couldn't wear that sort of thing.  (I have absolutely no idea whether she realized I was the one who had given it to her.)  It's difficult to know what a person's self-image is -- or what they think your style is.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 10/1/2020 at 3:58 AM, T.o.b.y said:

it's just a bit of a hassle trying to drink enough at work. Sanitize hands, take off mask, put mask in designated spot, take sip from water bottle, sanitize hands, put mask back on, sanitize hands, clean designated spot... Too often I don't feel like I have the time for that and end up dehydrated at the end of a shift.

Might you be able to work out a good system with fewer steps?

Like maybe use an implement (such as a shoe horn) to push the bottom of your mask up far enough that you could take a sip of water?  If only the handle touches your hand, and only the other end touches your face and mask, I assume that would do away with the need to sanitize things.  (You would need a "designated spot" to store the shoe horn, I suppose.)

 

[Artemis]

On 10/5/2020 at 2:07 PM, Fantasy Lover said:

Maybe I could have gotten used to getting up at 6 am, but during my entire internship my gut kept me awake by screaming at me that it was a bad idea and I barely slept because of it!

Look after your health first.  When I was in college I had to commute on the city bus 4-5 hours every day (sometimes 6 in bad weather).  Some days I had classes that started at 7am and went all day to 10pm, and for years I barely slept.  I never "got used to it" and I can assure you, it's not worth it.  The sleep deprivation caused me severe health problems and some brain damage, and I firmly believe it would have killed me had I kept going.  These days I am fiercely protective of my sleep.  People don't like it, and they still give me the same lines about "getting used to it" and "when I was your age" that they did back then.  Sometimes it still makes me feel guilty and frustrated, but I try to ignore it and that's what you should do.  Everyone has a different threshold, some people can handle things better than others.  They don't know what it is to be you.

 

[Artemis]

22 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

My rant of the day is a mommy rant: gendered kids' products.

Gendered products in general are one of my big pet peeves.

Also that fuchsia pink color they make every women's product in is one of my least favorite colors.  Can we have some variety please?

Also pink used be the "boy's color" and blue used to be the "girl's color".

Also "gendered" colors are a dumb concept and we should stop doing it.  Just let everyone enjoy all the colors we have to enjoy without shame.

Grr.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

1 hour ago, Artemis said:

pink used be the "boy's color" and blue used to be the "girl's color"

Really?  Do you have a rough idea when that was?

 

[Artemis]

58 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Really?  Do you have a rough idea when that was?

It was the norm for quite awhile until the 1940's or 50's, if I recall correctly.

Edit: An article for you.    There are several on the subject.
 

Quote

[...]  Pastel colors for baby clothing—including blue and pink—were introduced in the mid-19th century, and they didn’t become sex-specific colors until the 20th century.  [...]

Back before pastels were popular for babies, most parents dressed their kids in white dresses until they were about six. Historian Jo B. Paoletti says this outfit was practical: white cotton could be easily bleached, and dresses allowed convenient access for diaper changing. Then pastel colors became a fad for babies. These pastels weren’t marketed to a certain sex: both boys and girls were dressed in a wide array of pastels, including blue and pink.

At the beginning of the 20th century, some stores began suggesting “sex-appropriate” colors. In 1918 the trade publication Earnshaw’s Infants’ Department claimed the “generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.” Additionally, a 1927 issue of Time noted that large-scale department stores in Boston, Chicago, and New York suggested pink for boys. This trend of pink for boys was not as overwhelming as our current color-sex designation, however.

The baby boomers in the 1940s were the first to be dressed in the sex-specific clothing that Americans are familiar with today. Boys and girls were dressed like miniature men and women instead of uniformly in children’s dresses. Pink became the girls’ color, blue the boys’. This trend in children’s clothing took a dip in the mid-1960s and 1970s owing to the women’s liberation movement. People who took part in this movement thought that dressing young girls in feminine or stereotypically “girly” clothing would limit the girls’ opportunities for success, and many parents began favoring neutral colors and fashions. By the 1980s, however, gender-oriented kids clothing had come back into fashion strongly. Paoletti points to the invention of prenatal testing as the cause of this fad, since parents were able to learn (and subsequently emphasize) the sex of their baby before the baby’s birth. Also, clothes-washing technology began to allow cleaning and bleaching of colorful clothes without damage to the clothes’ hues.

...

 

[Artemis]

FYI, blue also used to be the traditional wedding dress color for women (in western Europe), as it symbolized faithfulness and was also a display of wealth, being the most expensive dye available (besides purple, which was reserved for royalty).    That lasted more or less from the Middle Ages up until the Victorian era.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm amazed that I hadn't heard about that.  Apparently all babies (and young children) wore white dresses for a long time, into the 1900's -- I knew that was true for babies, especially their christening gowns, but didn't realize it lasted well into early childhood.   This article also says that "pink for girls and blue for boys" didn't become the norm till the 1940's.  Before that it was sometimes the opposite, and sometimes something else -- depending on who your "expert" was.

Shortly after I wrote this:

7 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

It's always been easier to be a girl, I think.  You can wear frilly dresses if you want, or you can wear jeans and sweatshirts if you prefer, and nobody -- well, hardly anybody -- will think twice about it.

,,, it occurred to me that it wasn't that way till probably the 40's (perhaps thanks to Rosie the Riveter).  I have a book showing typical clothing from the Sears Roebuck catalogs of the 1930's, and women's trousers of that decade (primarily shorts and overalls) were strictly for sports, gardening, and the like.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

5 minutes ago, Artemis said:

FYI, blue also used to be the traditional wedding dress color for women (in western Europe), as it symbolized faithfulness and was also a display of wealth, being the most expensive dye available (besides purple, which was reserved for royalty).    That lasted more or less from the Middle Ages up until the Victorian era.

I've read that light blue is still the traditional wedding-dress color among the Amish (whose styles date from long-ago Europe).  A married woman continues to wear that same blue dress for church-going, and she's eventually buried in it.

 

[Artemis]

50 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

,,, it occurred to me that it wasn't that way till probably the 40's (perhaps thanks to Rosie the Riveter).  I have a book showing typical clothing from the Sears Roebuck catalogs of the 1930's, and women's trousers of that decade (primarily shorts and overalls) were strictly for sports, gardening, and the like.

Yep.  Women actually had to fight to wear trousers; it wasn't accepted right away.  Even in some circles today, it's still not acceptable.  Some businesses insist that their female employees wear skirts.  Fundamentalist Baptists, like the church I grew up in and went to school in, did not allow girls to wear pants.  My parents were less strict and let me wear pants at home, but it was frowned upon.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

We girls had to wear skirts or dresses to school, and that was a public school -- but longer ago than your school days, I assume.  The only exception (did I mention this before?) was that in winter we could wear snow pants or leggings (which were made of heavy wool fabric) on our way to school, but once we got there, we had to remove them.  (We generally wore them under our skirt, so it was easy enough to take them off, even with boys around.)

Oh, and one other exception -- we were required to wear hideous one-piece gym suits with bloomers for legs.  Bloomers!!!  Here's an article (with picture) about those gym suits (which I'm sure I linked to once before).

But in general, we were required to wear skirts at school.  And they had to cover our knees.

Most of us wore jeans or shorts after school, but I had a friend whose parents wouldn't let her (due to their religion).  She told me that when her family went swimming (in a creek, I believe, not a public pool), she and her sisters would wear old dresses.  But I think most fundamentalist denominations nowadays allow women to wear trousers -- though they might not allow it in church or school.

 

[T.o.b.y]

Quote

You'd think the toothbrush people would realize that even some girls prefer blue, or green, or yellow -- wouldn't you?

All the blue and green toothbrushes had monsters on them. I am sure some kinds like monsters but I would have been terrified of them when I was little and blue was already my favorite color back then so I would have been unhappy with the selection as well.

Quote

 

Has that been resolved yet?

I agree with your later post, you really need to let her know -- as gently and as vaguely as possible -- that it really isn't your sort of thing.  If you're lucky, she bought it because she likes it -- would it fit her?  If so, you could follow up the "not my sort of thing" line by suggesting that she keep it and enjoy it.

On the other hand, she may think that you have the flair to wear something daring like that, whereas she'd feel silly in it.  I once bought a piece of jewelry for a friend, thinking although it was very beautiful it was too dainty for me to carry off -- but just right for her.  Some years later, she pulled out the same pin and asked if I'd like to have it -- someone had given it to her, she said, but even though it was very pretty, she really couldn't wear that sort of thing.  (I have absolutely no idea whether she realized I was the one who had given it to her.)  It's difficult to know what a person's self-image is -- or what they think your style is.

 

My husband suggested I "at least" try it on and fortunately, it didn't fit. So I told her that it wasn't my size despite what the label says and she agreed to take it back. I don't know what she plans on doing with it but tbh, I don't care either as long as I am rid of it.

Quote

Also "gendered" colors are a dumb concept and we should stop doing it.  Just let everyone enjoy all the colors we have to enjoy without shame.

Exactly! It's dumb and as you pointed out, totally arbitrary anyway if you look at how it changes over time.

 

I think it's such a difficult, fine line to walk between encouraging a child to be themselves and protecting them from perhaps avoidable harassment. On the one hand, I think lots of social norms are stupid and it shouldn't be his job to prevent bullying because it's the bullies who are doing something wrong here and not himself. On the other hand, I have to acknowledge that the world works in a certain way, like it or not, and I don't want to be the clueless mom whose kid never has a chance to fit in.

The way we resolved this particular problem btw was by me finding one single yellow toothbrush with the desired character on it eventually, with only a little bit of pink around the edges. The first day he went to daycare with it, he had second thoughts when I dropped him off and clung to my legs and cried but apparently, nobody said anything because today the world was fine and I am sure the toothbrush will be so covered in toothpaste soon that nobody can tell what the original colors were anyway...

 

(The new forum software doesn't seem to have a multiquote option, right?)