Shoot the Wall (A.K.A. The Rant Thread)

[Arcadia]

[Van Buren Supernova]

I don’t know if I could organize my thoughts properly into writing, but I want to contribute.

 

Unfortunately, your situation sounds very familiar to me, in various forms.

 

Someone dearest, that I would never sever my tie with in whatever situation, made scary and horrible racist remarks to the point that she thought it’s just deserving that certain race and religion got annihilated, because in her eyes that time, they contribute nothing but misery.

 

Our family was one of many racial and religion attack victims in a very unfortunate situation quite long time ago. Our small family business, the only way to feed us that time, was destroyed, two of our dogs were missing, most probably killed and one was left to die. Fortunately we managed to escape or were in safer place that we were physically unharmed compared to many other victims. I was in my uni in another town, couldn’t get to them and worried sick every single second.

 

After a week, I took the risk of 50-50% getting hacked on the road or assaulted to death to get home, this is not exaggeration. At that time, the situation was freaky, to put it mildly, paranoia and hatred were everywhere, and that was when I see her, them, mostly people on the wronged side, changed, they were so full of hatred and even vengeance, swore to pay back and curse to no end, furiously stating all that particular religion deserve to die, to be wiped out from existence.

 

Horrible, chilling is underrated word, especially when this comes from people you love. Unknowingly, they had turned into the people who pushed them into that situation on the first place.

 

On my way home, and other trips on the road, I saw something different. Well of course I was ready and furious to defend myself should I encounter anything bad on the road. The security was ‘under control’ but we had witnessed how useless it was if we were at the wrong time and the wrong place. But I didn’t have fear left but anger, I had enough of being afraid and cowered in my home feeling helpless so we had to force that life must go on.

 

Most people on the street, maybe with good percentage of them took part in murders, rapes or lootings couple of weeks back looked very normal, common, ordinary, poor and.. tortured…. when I looked at them, they diverted my gaze, they hung their head down in shame, some hands were shaking holding or crumpling flyers that encourage them to kill more (no joking, they spread these type of flyers everywhere), all those thoughts entered my mind; maybe they did what they did because of years of unfair life, they wants to change, they were promised changes, the misguided beliefs, the surpassed angers and maybe the helplessness of not able to do something else or fight what they were required to do, and most of all,… the inability to know better and bad influence from someone with bigger agenda who simply made use of these people.

 

So suddenly, I am an alien and have no place. I understand the views of both victims and assailants and don’t want to be in both camps and don’t share the views of both. I had no hatred or even anger anymore to both, but saddened. Although I was furious that those puppet masters were hiding safe, unscratched from anything and it probably takes forever before people know who the real enemy is. Or never will.

 

However, there was no way I shared that to my family or even showed any signs that I didn’t share their misery or view. I had to be there for them, and listened to those every day, until, finally and slowly, the curses and scary remarks were replaced by acceptance. Along those times, unsung heroes appeared regardless of race and religion. Kind and brave people helped to build society again, those went to the great length to show that they too, condemned what their fellow believers did and worked hard to make things good again for the victims to feel accepted. And they were many others who risked their life to save others in those uneventful times.

 

So, slowly, ensuring them, treading carefully not to get them misunderstand that I am on ‘the other side’ I started to make them understand, bit by bit, that no one should be judged solely based on their race and religion, because it’s meaningless. There are nice (insert any religion or race) and there are bad (insert any religion or race).

 

Sorry it had become my rant as well, what I meant to say, maybe it’s useful to look at the motivation that makes your friend turns into what she is. Above is extreme case, racism motivated by traumatic experience that drives someone into blind hatred to certain group. In this case, the approach is very delicate and takes time, and it’s important that they believe you are not trying to inject your own principle, but merely approach from common sense.

 

Another motivation could be because she thinks it’s a common view shared by many, so she has no qualm spreading and sharing those hurtful or insensitive videos. Some ex-close friends of mine who lead relatively privileged lives, on separate occasion made very horrible comments or remarks about people from so-called lower social level, that, unfortunately, also linked to certain race, loudly, in public, and they laughed as if it’s funny and common. (Sadly, this is not uncommon jokes in this place that's why they thought it's alright because it's common anyway) For this, this is basic insensitivity and stupidity of sheltered humans who never had enough life experience or maturity, and for this, I’m willing to slap them hard in words and make sure my stand is recognized and that is not okay, or go as far as severing my ties if they continue to be disrespectful and insensitive to others because I don’t want to waste time associating with these people. It’s slightly more difficult if the remarks are rare and they avoid making it in front of me because they know I don’t like it, then maybe it’s still possible that we remain

(distanced) friend, at least we respect each other view?

 

The third motivation is thinking that she is right. Imho, this is different than the second one. Second one could be the least harmful as there is a benefit of doubt that it’s passing jokes. But this one is people believing something and swear on it without proper information or heavily misguided. The level of damage depends on how this person influences the society or environment he/she lives in.

 

I had seen so-called teachers, religious leaders, people with influence, spread misguided views and as ridiculous as some find them to be, there are many others who are not fortunate enough to have common sense that fall into that and horrible misguided, it’s very damaging especially in sensitive issues like racial and religion. That is why it’s like pressing my ‘Detonate’ button whenever someone who should know better, who may have influence to others, speak about these issues without being properly informed. For every misguided words, every misguided videos they send, there is tiny to enough percentage that it influences someone the wrong way, someone who looks up to them.

 

It’s no stranger to us to see sparkling eyes of some idiots who proudly declares that he does something right (read:very wrong) and that they get inspired from their friends/teachers/religious leaders/parents.

 

If your friend fits into this category, that most probably she is misguided or not well informed, there is possibility to ‘fix’ it, especially that you say it’s not like what she used to be. But there are chances that you didn’t know her real self back then.

 

Long story short, sometimes it’s a lost cause, something it’s worth to try, I think you have done what you could do, at least you had tried multiple times. I agree with most that maybe there are not much left to do then see the respond and decide what you will do after that.

 

I would say, it’s okay to lose a friend, that is not worth your time and effort.

 

Sorry for long post.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Some years back, I saw an interview by an American reporter with a local resident in a war-torn area (somewhere in Eastern Europe, I think).  The interviewee was urging the reporter to tell the American president to come and help, and as the interview went on, it became clear that her idea of "help" would be for the US to defeat the ethnic group that was currently on top there, so that her ethnic group could be on top for a while.

 

I remember thinking that the woman did not understand how America works, that in a democracy, people work together for the common good, despite their ethnic, religious, or political differences.  But not too long afterward, I was appalled to see her sort of thinking start to take hold here.  People were beginning to demonize those from other groups, simply because they belonged to that other group (and of course that other group was demonizing them right back).  Since then it's only gotten worse, with the current presidential race as just one example.

 

So I'm wondering whether your friend may have been influenced by some of that growing attitude.

 

[Arcadia]

VBS, thanks for sharing that, it is quite a story and I can only imagine how terrifying it must have been. I am one of those fortunate ones who's never had to go through that kind of experience, and it's good to be reminded just how fortunate I am. It's so easy to feel sorry for yourself when you have no other point of reference.

 

I think of your scenarios, the last two are probably closest to the truth ... it's a common view shared by many people, and she thinks she's right. And I think your comment is on target too, Carol ... there's an attitude growing here that I don't find particularly in keeping with the American ideals I was raised on.

 

Because this person and I have been good friends in the past, and because we've often been able to debate each other without getting our feathers ruffled, I think I'm leaning towards confronting this head on ... with hopes that it will remind her that it's not okay to spread things like that around. Maybe it will help, I don't know ... I think you've also touched on another possibility, VBS ... she may have done a lot more of this over the years than I've been aware of, in which case maybe it's time to distance myself.

 

Anyway, I'm feeling more myself today. Since I'm currently in the only place in the world where I feel safe doing so, I took a long walk by myself in the dark last night. Two things ... 1) I'd forgotten how many more stars you can see when there's no streetlight every 5 feet, and 2) I'd forgotten just how dark nighttime really is. :d I couldn't see my feet! Fortunately I had my camera with me and I could use the light from the viewscreen to illuminate the rough patches.

 

It's a shame our society has put so much money and effort into banishing the night ... I find the dark quite soothing. But it's hard to find!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I had just about convinced myself that I was remembering my childhood night sky as far more impressive than it actually was -- till Alex and I spent the night at a horse farm in New Hampshire.  We got there late at night.  I got out of the car, and happened to look up.  And ... WOW!

 

When I was a kid, I sometimes found it kinda scary, and felt like I might fall into it if I wasn't careful.  It's apparently still that way, but I haven't had an opportunity to see it like that for years now, even though I live in the country.

 

I think you have a good plan for dealing with your friend (only perhaps "confront" isn't quite the best word).

[Arcadia]

I know, there's so many more stars than I'm used to seeing! I used to could go down to the county park near my house when I really wanted to see the night sky, but they installed lights a few years ago; even though the park closes at dusk.

[T.o.b.y]

There's a quote somewhere in one of the Anne of Green Gables books where she says that the night only seems threatening when you try to push it away from you by turning on the light. If you let it approach, it becomes your friend. I liked that a lot when I was little, because I was afraid of the dark, but it's true, it does become a lot less scary if you let it near you.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Doesn't hurt to see one, or two more..

 

 

[Fantasy Lover]

Poor Arcadia :(, do you want a hug? Because you deserve a big hug! I've been in a similar situation, but my 'friend' wasn't racist. She lied to me, not just small lies, but big lies! She claimed she was engaged to a Lord! After nearly 3 years of friendship, I decided to cut ties with her

[Carol the Dabbler]

I had a friend kinda like that, years ago. Seemed like every time she went somewhere (without me), she'd run into somebody famous. I just thought wow, what an interesting life she leads!

 

Then one day I heard her telling another of her amazing stories to a mutual friend, and I was thinking too bad I hadn't been there too -- when I recognized a detail and realized that I HAD been there. By the time she got through "improving" the incident, its own mother wouldn't have recognized it!

 

I didn't dump her (she dumped me, later on), but I sure stopped believing any of her stories. Too bad -- some of them might have been true.

[Arcadia]

Poor Arcadia :(, do you want a hug? Because you deserve a big hug! I've been in a similar situation, but my 'friend' wasn't racist. She lied to me, not just small lies, but big lies! She claimed she was engaged to a Lord! After nearly 3 years of friendship, I decided to cut ties with her

 

Hugs welcome at this time, yes.

 

I don't know ... my friend is saying now she didn't realize the video was edited. But I'm thinking ... in order for her to believe it was real, she had to believe the lie it was telling. Which is my real problem; anyone who would believe such a lie is not someone I care to associate with. Sigh.

[Carol the Dabbler]

If a video is edited with the least bit of care, it will seem authentic -- as your friend says. And if someone believes it to be authentic, well then, seeing is believing. So it does seem somewhat reasonable that she would believe the message.

 

So perhaps all this means is that your friend is gullible -- ready to believe anything without investigating the "proof." I get forwarded emails from people like that every day.

[Arcadia]

Well, in order to believe this one, she would have to also believe that you can judge people by the color of their skin, and not by the content of their character.

 

Believing the video is similar to believing this remark: "A man of color committed a crime, therefore all men of color are criminals."

[Carol the Dabbler]

OK, I see your point, I guess. Though I still doubt that she interpreted it that starkly.

[Arcadia]

I just don't know. We'll see.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hang in there....

[Van Buren Supernova]

Let us know if you feel like it.

If you look for someone who has to cut friends for own sanity and happiness, I am here.

 

 

Ah, and not to pour cold water to all the glory and celebration, I read (way too much bad things lately) about Olympic's dark side.

Again, I knew this, but not to that extent

People are uprooted, chased from their homes (sometimes violently), educations and healthcares are cut, inhumane labors, corruptions, walls built to cover undesirable areas, etc etc etc.. is it still glorious if it's so ugly inside?

[Shadow Dweller]

@Arcadia: People went through the various phases of life in their own pace. I only can tell my story - quite a lot of my acquaintances (not friends, that a category very few people made into) are the easily provoked with sob stories and 'injustice' kind. They often shared that kind of contents in Facebook. Easy to ignore them and if they insist to tag me, I'll just tell them that I don't like that kind of vids. Failure to regard my request seriously and following up as requested means them getting ignored. Trying to point out that their shared contents are fake/doctored not always help since some people wants to believe even when faced by the truth. In denial and for me it is their own life and not my job to fix something that's only themselves can change. Losing those friends are ok to me, sometimes they came back years later and sometimes they are gone for good. People do change and there might be time that we finally have to let them go. Que sera sera, whatever will be will be.

[Arcadia]

Well, my friend and I talked. We ended up ranging over quite a few of the issues we don't agree on; which was okay, because we're able to do that without getting mad at each other ... we've long since agreed to disagree.

 

She's still in total negativity mode; every breath was used to vent about someone's or something's failings. I didn't mind so much, maybe because I've been gone for awhile. And because I think she's still hurting from other things that have happened, and this is how it comes out. I'm one of her safety valves.

 

But she basically confirmed what was really bothering me ... she really believes that "those people all do such-and-such". "Those people" being, basically, anyone who doesn't look like her. And she doesn't think that's racism. But she left knowing I do.

 

And that's sort of where we're at right now. At present I'm making no effort to either reach out to her or to exclude her ... I know she's genuinely hurting, and I've decided I'm not going to be yet another person who will kick her when she's down. And I think her negativity is running so deep right now that it's coloring everything. I'll wait a bit, and we'll talk again. And again. And again after that, if she's still willing. The fact that she hasn't out and out rejected me makes me think she's still reachable. So I'm available to her, just not proactively reaching out. I do feel a bit lonelier now, though.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Glad you didn't write her off.  Everybody needs friends, especially someone they feel comfortable talking with.

 

I was once good friends with a woman who (I'm fairly certain) sincerely believes that I am headed for Hell, but she never bugged me about it, so we got along just fine, and could in fact discuss our beliefs with each other very comfortably.  Both of us enjoyed that, because it's rare to find someone who can do it.  (The reason we're no longer such buddies is that we both moved away.  I miss her.)

 

[Arcadia]

:D Maybe it's the same friend! ... as mine told me the same thing, due to not following her particular branch of religion. I told that was okay, as I didn't believe in her version of Hell either. It never seemed to get between us.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Wildfire, flood, Zika, everyone okay?

[Arcadia]

Safe from all those here, but I do have a spider bite on my arm. Does that get me any sympathy?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Those can be really itchy at best. Hope it wasn't a brown recluse?

[Arcadia]

Nope, not a recluse nor a black widow. It was barely itchy, just on the leading edge of it. I was a trifle wary for a few days because it kept getting bigger, but it's fading now. Guess I'll live.