Episode 3.2, "The Sign of Three"

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

 

Maybe Sherlock knows or has suspicions that she will betray them all along?

 

  I really didn't get that feeling from Sherlock's actions towards her. He even kissed her on the forehead in front of James Sholto's room. She stood up to Sherlock, even shouted him down and made him deduce to save Sholto's life. He also deduces that she is pregnant and his first and last vow is to keep her, John and the baby safe. I thought he had quite a bit of compassion for her. Just my point of view, of course. You could be right.

[Earendil]

Good deductions, Carol!

 

 

 

Mrs. Hudson's date at the wedding -- was that Mr. Chatterjee?  Really?

 

 

 Regarding Mr Chatterjee, I've recently found this article. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Since Mary apparently has some past connection with Milverton, I suspect that he is or has been blackmailing her -- and is possibly putting pressure on her to do something for him.  Added:  Of course I meant Magnussen -- or whatever his name is this week!

 

Interesting article, Earendil.  (I had wondered about that odd combination of surname and city -- wonder why they chose it?)

 

And now I'm going to bed, before the rest of Europe wakes up and starts posting!

 

[sherlockandjohn]

 

Since I've used up my quota of 'likes' for the day, I'll just quote your comment and say how much I 'like' it

 

Good heavens, I had no idea there was a quota! What is it?

 

 

I don't know A pop-up box just informs me that I have used it up, and I haven't tried counting it

 

[SherlockBatman]

 

 

Maybe Sherlock knows or has suspicions that she will betray them all along?

 

  I really didn't get that feeling from Sherlock's actions towards her. He even kissed her on the forehead in front of James Sholto's room. She stood up to Sherlock, even shouted him down and made him deduce to save Sholto's life. He also deduces that she is pregnant and his first and last vow is to keep her, John and the baby safe. I thought he had quite a bit of compassion for her. Just my point of view, of course. You could be right.

 

 

No, I agree with you and what I posted previously was not my set-in-stone opinion, it was just something I wondering, maybe over-analysing and seeing a side that's not there haha.

 

Playing Devil's Advocate in a way I suppose.

 

Possibly saving Sholto may be part of a plan which will be revealed in The Last Vow?

 

She may not be on the opposing side completely by her choice? It may be against her will somewhat, blackmailed due to reasons (Family matters perhaps?) that will be revealed in the next episode as some have said?

 

And what may entail in 'keeping all three safe' may not be what we expect?

 

Keeping Mary safe may mean ensuring she stays alive and it could even mean getting her out of whatever contract she finds herself locked in to?

 

But keeping John safe may mean Sherlock preventing whatever plan there is to possibly harm him?

 

The baby could even be something CAM wants? An heir in some respect? Or that kind of area? SO Sherlock keeping the baby safe may mean making sure the baby stays with their rightful parent/s

 

If indeed John is definitely the Father!?

 

'The Last Vow' may have a different meaning to what we think it does at this point. Maybe Mary made a vow to CAM but the 'Last Vow' she made was to John (At this point anyway as far as we know) so that could cause confrontation?

 

I don't know, one of the things I've liked about this Sherlock series is that I've found it extremely engaging and it makes me think...over-think in fact

[Earendil]

Since Mary apparently has some past connection with Milverton, I suspect that he is or has been blackmailing her -- and is possibly putting pressure on her to do something for him.

 

 

You mean Magnussen. Well, we were all wondering why did Magnussen texted Mary and not Sherlock in TEH when John was in danger? And why did he rewatch over and over that scene as Sherlock saved John from the fire? After watching the wedding scene in TSOT an idea popped in my mind, when Sherlock reads this particular telegram: 

 

SHERLOCK: “... Oodles of love and heaps of good wishes from CAM.”

(Mary’s smile fades. Sherlock continues reading the message.)

SHERLOCK: “Wish your family could have seen this.”

 

John was put into a bonfire, not because of Sherlock, but because of Mary. Magnussen maybe threatened her to kill her whole family if she didn't 'obey' her and he actually did kill her parents. Now John is in danger because they are getting married, so he is going to be Mary's family member, so to say. Magnussen threatened her once again putting John in danger but he made sure that Mary has the time to save him. At the end I think Magnussen is quite surprised to see a man next to Mary who actually pulls out John from the bonfire. He freezes the footage when Sherlock's face appears and looks at him with rapidly contracted pupils. So I think he is surprised to see Sherlock (remember, Sherlock's coming back has been the previous night and his public appearance is on the next day).

 

My other idea is, that maybe Mary was somehow involved in her parents' deaths and Magnussen knows this and is blackmailing her. We know that she is a nurse and maybe her parents needed some drugs to take and Mary has accidentally overdosed them (for example insulin for their diabetes etc.). Maybe this idea is too far-fetched...

[sherlockandjohn]

 

Since Mary apparently has some past connection with Milverton, I suspect that he is or has been blackmailing her -- and is possibly putting pressure on her to do something for him.

 

You mean Magnussen. Well, we were all wondering why did Magnussen texted Mary and not Sherlock in TEH when John was in danger? And why did he rewatch over and over that scene as Sherlock saved John from the fire? After watching the wedding scene in TSOT an idea popped in my mind, when Sherlock reads this particular telegram: 

 

SHERLOCK: “... Oodles of love and heaps of good wishes from CAM.”

(Mary’s smile fades. Sherlock continues reading the message.)

SHERLOCK: “Wish your family could have seen this.”

 

John was put into a bonfire, not because of Sherlock, but because of Mary. Magnussen maybe threatened her to kill her whole family if she didn't 'obey' her and he actually did kill her parents. Now John is in danger because they are getting married, so he is going to be Mary's family member, so to say. Magnussen threatened her once again putting John in danger but he made sure that Mary has the time to save him. At the end I think Magnussen is quite surprised to see a man next to Mary who actually pulls out John from the bonfire. He freezes the footage when Sherlock's face appears and looks at him with rapidly contracted pupils. So I think he is surprised to see Sherlock (remember, Sherlock's coming back has been the previous night and his public appearance is on the next day).

 

 

Sounds plausible, and you've taken all clues and facts into consideration, so it's a good theory, if you ask me. Whether it is true, remains to be seen, of course I always find it hard to guess what will happen.

[Earendil]

One more thing to add: Mary looks anxious when Sherlock talks about her pregnancy. I think she is terrified because another family member is on the way and if Magnussen swore to kill her family, then the baby is in big danger. She thinks John is relatively 'safe' if he is with Sherlock (that's why she urges John to find a case for Sherlock).

[Slithytove]

/>

 

 

 

 

Since Mary apparently has some past connection with Milverton, I suspect that he is or has been blackmailing her -- and is possibly putting pressure on her to do something for him.

You mean Magnussen. Well, we were all wondering why did Magnussen texted Mary and not Sherlock in TEH when John was in danger? And why did he rewatch over and over that scene as Sherlock saved John from the fire? After watching the wedding scene in TSOT an idea popped in my mind, when Sherlock reads this particular telegram:

 

SHERLOCK: “... Oodles of love and heaps of good wishes from CAM.”

(Mary’s smile fades. Sherlock continues reading the message.)

SHERLOCK: “Wish your family could have seen this.”

 

John was put into a bonfire, not because of Sherlock, but because of Mary. Magnussen maybe threatened her to kill her whole family if she didn't 'obey' her and he actually did kill her parents. Now John is in danger because they are getting married, so he is going to be Mary's family member, so to say. Magnussen threatened her once again putting John in danger but he made sure that Mary has the time to save him. At the end I think Magnussen is quite surprised to see a man next to Mary who actually pulls out John from the bonfire. He freezes the footage when Sherlock's face appears and looks at him with rapidly contracted pupils. So I think he is surprised to see Sherlock (remember, Sherlock's coming back has been the previous night and his public appearance is on the next day).

Sounds plausible, and you've taken all clues and facts into consideration, so it's a good theory, if you ask me. Whether it is true, remains to be seen, of course I always find it hard to guess what will happen.

Doesn't Magnusson address Sherlock directly, though, in subsequent texts, i.e. when he and Mary are on the bike? Or have I imagined that? I ought to know, I've watched it 4 times!

 

I am also bad at guessing plot developments but I think it's almost certain that Mary is a blackmail victim. Also, the original Holmes detested Milverton (the blackmailer's original name), so Sherlock would have a good reason to detest Magnusson if his evil ways threaten the Watsons, whom Sherlock has sworn to protect.

 

On a different subject, to refer back to an earlier post, was Holmes definitely a recluse after he retired? It is many years since I read "His Last Bow", so I remember that he retires to a small Sussex farm to keep bees, and that Watson doesn't live with him, but is he a recluse? As far as I can remember, there aren't many details about his sociability. Maybe he was the life and soul of the local villages. (Okay, I know it is a long shot...)

 

A good take on Holmes after retirement is "The Bee-keeper's Apprentice" by Laurie R. King. The series got weaker as it went on but the earlier books are good, particularly the first which is about a young precocious American woman striking up a friendship with the ageing (but still active) retired detective.

[Earendil]

 

Doesn't Magnusson address Sherlock directly, though, in subsequent texts, i.e. when he and Mary are on the bike? Or have I imagined that? I ought to know, I've watched it 4 times!

 

 

You are right, I completely missed this! From Ariane's transcript:

 

Shortly afterwards Sherlock and Mary – wearing the helmets of the driver and his pillion passenger – are racing through the streets on the bike. In Sherlock’s mind, he is calculating how long it will take to get to St James the Less Church. Currently the journey will take 10 minutes. Mary’s phone sounds a text alert and she checks it. It reads 

 

Getting warmer Mr Holmes

You have about ten minutes

 

(...)

Mary receives one more text: 

 

What a shame

Mr Holmes.

John is quite a Guy!

[Loekie]

Can we believe this?

 

 

 

Sherlock on drugs in the next episode? http://25.media.tumblr.com/82271677fa025a5252a0cf74ef02059e/tumblr_mz1vzxPRup1rxgp8zo1_1280.jpg

​

 

 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Undead Medic
Added Spoiler Tags

[Earendil]

Can we believe this?

Sherlock on drugs in the next episode? http://25.media.tumblr.com/82271677fa025a5252a0cf74ef02059e/tumblr_mz1vzxPRup1rxgp8zo1_1280.jpg

 

 

Unfortunately I cannot reach tumblr from my workplace (half of the internet is blocked here for 'security reasons'), but I think I know what you are speaking of. There is already a separate thread for this topic. 

[Undead Medic]

As Earendil says, there is a thread on this topic.

 

Please keep in mind that this is a thread for discussion of "The Sign of Three" Any speculation based upon pictures from filming for the next episode belongs in the Series 3 section, outside of this thread.

 

Speculation based upon your view of how events in The Sign of Three may play out is of course fine.

 

[Zain]

 

Since Mary apparently has some past connection with Milverton, I suspect that he is or has been blackmailing her -- and is possibly putting pressure on her to do something for him.

 

 

You mean Magnussen. Well, we were all wondering why did Magnussen texted Mary and not Sherlock in TEH when John was in danger? And why did he rewatch over and over that scene as Sherlock saved John from the fire? After watching the wedding scene in TSOT an idea popped in my mind, when Sherlock reads this particular telegram: 

 

SHERLOCK: “... Oodles of love and heaps of good wishes from CAM.”

(Mary’s smile fades. Sherlock continues reading the message.)

SHERLOCK: “Wish your family could have seen this.”

 

John was put into a bonfire, not because of Sherlock, but because of Mary. Magnussen maybe threatened her to kill her whole family if she didn't 'obey' her and he actually did kill her parents. Now John is in danger because they are getting married, so he is going to be Mary's family member, so to say. Magnussen threatened her once again putting John in danger but he made sure that Mary has the time to save him. At the end I think Magnussen is quite surprised to see a man next to Mary who actually pulls out John from the bonfire. He freezes the footage when Sherlock's face appears and looks at him with rapidly contracted pupils. So I think he is surprised to see Sherlock (remember, Sherlock's coming back has been the previous night and his public appearance is on the next day).

 

My other idea is, that maybe Mary was somehow involved in her parents' deaths and Magnussen knows this and is blackmailing her. We know that she is a nurse and maybe her parents needed some drugs to take and Mary has accidentally overdosed them (for example insulin for their diabetes etc.). Maybe this idea is too far-fetched...

 

 

I agree with the points you named, but I came to a very different conclusion; I don't think Magnussen is after Mary. To me, it seems like he's interested in Sherlock, instead.

John was abducted in front of Baker Street; in daylight, on an open street. Far from practical. It's symbolic. A sort of provocation.

 

I also think he never intended to play with Mary, even if he originally texted her. Mary simply becomes the messenger; she brings Sherlock the code, brings him "into" the game. All following messages are directed to Sherlock. It's actually not Mary whose arrival Magnussen times; it's Sherlock.

 

On a different note; yes, Magnussen is more than weird when he watches the footage. I wouldn't say he was surprised to see Sherlock. he expected him. The camera is directed at him; it follows his movements, not Mary's. This is deliberate; the camera is shaking slightly when it moves to the side, it's actually a person filming the entire scene. And that person's focus lies on Sherlock. I doubt it's coincidence. Magnussen expected Sherlock (the messages!) and the camera man focuses on him. To me, that's enough to conclude that his interest lies with Sherlock.

 

No. Magnussen wanted Sherlock there, and he wanted to see him "perform." Otherwise he'd not have timed things just that nicely. And wouldn't have bothered with the "quite the Guy" comment. I don't know what this will lead up to, but the Bonfire Incident seems like a test run.

 

I agree. Mary is more than likely being blackmailed by Magnussen, and it seems like it has got something to do with her family, most likely with her father (for canon's sake).

I already saw some signs in The Empty Hearse, and Mary's reactions in The Sign of Three confirm a lot of my suspicions.

I hope it'll be a great third episode. Unlikely that the Magnussen plot will be coming to an end, I however hope Sherlock unravels Mary's "lies" and finds out her secret. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm wondering whether the congratulatory note from "CAM" (presumably C. A. Magnussen) might be another skip code, or some other kind of coded message.  Just so you don't have to look back where someone posted it earlier, here it is from Ariane DeVere's transcript:

 

SHERLOCK (reading the next card): “Mary – lots of love, ...”
(He breathes out an almost silent, ‘Oh’. John and Mary look up at him.)
JOHN: Yeah?
SHERLOCK (disparagingly): “... poppet ...”
(He loudly sounds the ‘t’ at the end of the word. John and Mary giggle.)
SHERLOCK: “... Oodles of love and heaps of good wishes from CAM.”
(Mary’s smile fades. Sherlock continues reading the message.)
SHERLOCK: “Wish your family could have seen this.”
(John looks round and sees Mary’s face. He reaches out and takes her hand.)
JOHN: Hey. Hmm?
(She smiles reassuringly at him.)

 

Any ideas?

 

Also, I could swear that one of the recent (i.e., post-Reichenbach) comments on John's blog used the word "poppet" -- but I can't seem to find it now.  (The word does seem to be in Amanda Abbington's vocabulary, though, so maybe? that's what I'm thinking of.)

 

[Earendil]

Poppet is puppet, right? He reminded her that he has full controll over her. 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

According to all the etymologies I can find on line the word poppet means a little girl or a girl doll...not so much a puppet.

[Earendil]

 

Also, I could swear that one of the recent (i.e., post-Reichenbach) comments on John's blog used the word "poppet" -- but I can't seem to find it now.  (The word does seem to be in Amanda Abbington's vocabulary, though, so maybe? that's what I'm thinking of.)

 

I'm afraid the word 'poppet' isn't on John's blog. Check this: if you want to search a particular word in a specific website, you need to type in Google Search the word you are looking for, than the word 'site:' and then the website, for example: poppet site: johnwatsonblog.co.uk. 

[Earendil]

According to all the etymologies I can find on line the word poppet means a little girl or a girl doll...not so much a puppet.

 

According to this site: 

Related to PUPPET

Synonyms action figure, dolly, poppet [Midland], doll    

So I think in Central England they do use the word 'poppet' as a synonym for puppet. Can any local forum member confirm that?

 

When Sherlock gives Mary a scan in TEH, he deduces lots of things, eg. she is a cat lover, liar, etc, but there is also this word: linguist. So I think she is very good with words and she might have known the synonym for puppet. But maybe I'm wrong. 

[T.o.b.y]

 

Sorry, don't understand how feminism has anything to do with it? Are you saying you like the love story? If it's a love story between two men I doubt feminism has a problem with it. And my personal dislike of romance novels does not preclude my ability to enjoy a good love story - as a feminist - straight or gay or whatevs. So again, I think you don't understand what feminism is if you think it's about the patriachal oppression that is a love story:-)

 

What I liked about Sign of 3 is that it was made clear that two men can be friends, can love each other without having it be sexual. It's also what I like about Elementary in that we see a man and a woman in a respectful, deep friendship in which they clearly love each other and yet don't feel the need to have sex. This is how it is in real life. You can love without feeling sexual, you can feel sexual without love at all and you can have both.

 

Hey there! I'm so sorry that once again, I obviously failed to get my point across. Okay, how do I say this so that what I write actually spells out what I think?

 

- I love the love story. All the love stories in Sherlock, actually, not just the one at the center. And I love love stories in general. I am a hopeless romantic (a point this episode drove home to me rather forcefully). And I do not think they are a product or "patriarchal oppression" at all. Not one bit.

 

- I started dragging feminism into this once again, because it crossed my mind that Irene and Mary, two absolutely lovely women in their own right, seem to be there mainly to prove John and Sherlock are not gay. If that were true and not just a fleeting impression of mine, I ought to have a problem with it because

  - being gay isn't such a terrible thing that you have to go to any lengths to prove it doesn't apply   to somebody.

  - I think it's fairly obvious they aren't interested in each other sexually, anyway. The actors and writers are good enough to convey that on their own.

  - it would be "using" female characters to make a point about the (of course more important) male ones.

 

I completely agree with your second paragraph. And as I said, even if my impression were correct regarding "the girls", it ought to bother me, but strangely, it doesn't. Nothing really bothers me about this episode. I just love it, don't ask me why. And I was really glad to see Irene, too, if only for a few seconds.

[T.o.b.y]

 

:( Oh, great. So I guess I shouldn't bother reading the last story in that big book I bought.  :'(

 

Just don't read "His Last Bow". It's probably not the last story in your book, because they did not appear in chronological order. It's an odd story, anyway. Not told from Watson's perspective but in third person narration. I guess you could call it an epilogue, a "this is what became of them later" story. As such, it is easy to ignore - I seriously dislike it and won't even re-read it to get more out of His Last Vow. Some references I think I even I would be glad to miss...

 

Changing the topic completely: As for who Magnussen is targeting, Mary or Sherlock, from what I've seen so far, I'd say both. For whatever reason. Because he's obviously after Mary in some way (the initial text message was to her, the telegram at her wedding), but it seems he doesn't start seriously bothering her until Sherlock returns from the dead. It's quite unlikely that she's been having problems with a blackmailer or similar for years / months and John never noticed anything was wrong, is it? (Okay, with John, it just might be likely). Also, Magnussen does seem, from the few hints we've been given so far, to be quite interested in Sherlock, doesn't he.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

The use of poppet for puppet may be a fairly modern application. In the earlier usage it seems to have used as an endearment.

[T.o.b.y]

The use of poppet for puppet may be a fairly modern application. In the earlier usage it seems to have used as an endearment.

 

That's certainly how Sherlock seemed to read it - wasn't it cute how jealous he seemed to be on John's behalf? With Mary's ex (?) too? That scene was pure sitcom style and I still liked it...

 

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I love that "shar-pei" grin he gives Mary's ex at the initial interview. Priceless.

[T.o.b.y]

Yes, it was. The whole episode was. And while it was hilariously funny, it still felt sweetly sad to me.