Episode 3.2, "The Sign of Three"

[sherlockandjohn]

I think the writers have done a brilliant job with the Mary character, and Amanda Abbington has played her wonderfully. 

 

But I must admit:  I want Mary gone.  Gone, gone, GONE.  The idea of a crime-solving trio, or even her in the background, doesn't appeal to me.  I want John living back at 221B, and I want the focus to be on their awesome partnership and the mischief they prevent/create.  I feel like the last three episodes have been about Things Separating John And Sherlock, and as dramatically compelling as that's been, I wish the writers would head in a different direction and one that is a bit more in tune with what ACD did.

 

My personal hope is that Mary has been working for/with CAM all along and was sent to seduce John, but has truly fallen in love with him and gives up her life to save him and Sherlock, leaving John devasted and Sherlock feeling guilty.

 

As for the baby, I don't know.  I guess I'm a terrible person, but I don't think I'd be unduly bothered by the death of a fictional unborn child.  Hard to imagine the writers doing that, though.  Maybe she isn't really pregnant (and was just playing Sherlock with her "symptoms"), or the baby isn't John's (Mycroft's, oh Lord!  That would be twisted).  But I don't want John to be a father because I want him back with in 221B with Sherlock and I think the flat would be really hard to child-proof.  (Like I said, I'm a terrible person.)

 

I have thoroughly enjoyed the last few episodes with Mary in them, and she has not really come between John and Sherlock yet. In fact, series 3 so far is more about their friendship than ever before. However, I'm also not sure how well it would work for me in the long run. I would like to see more of the crime solving again, the duo, the 'just the two of us against the rest of the world'. But it would also break my heart to see John grieve not only a lost wife but a lost child. Even if it's fictional, because it's honestly not the child I'd grieve for; it's John - I know him and love him.

 

I might be a bit cold too (though I don't really consider myself such), but this is, after all, fiction, and the reason I watch the series is mainly Sherlock and John. And the development of Sherlock's character; he is immensely interesting.

 

Anyway, I still love this show, and I have a feeling I still will, regardless what happens next.

[sherlockandjohn]

In the best man speech, when Sherlock has realised that there is a murderer present, and he starts walking around among the guests, talking in a way that barely makes sense... I love how John quickly realises that something is wrong. Sherlock often acts manically, and it's hard to tell the reason, but John can.

[T.o.b.y]

I think the writers have done a brilliant job with the Mary character, and Amanda Abbington has played her wonderfully. 

 

But I must admit:  I want Mary gone.  Gone, gone, GONE.  The idea of a crime-solving trio, or even her in the background, doesn't appeal to me.  I want John living back at 221B, and I want the focus to be on their awesome partnership and the mischief they prevent/create.  I feel like the last three episodes have been about Things Separating John And Sherlock, and as dramatically compelling as that's been, I wish the writers would head in a different direction and one that is a bit more in tune with what ACD did.

 

My personal hope is that Mary has been working for/with CAM all along and was sent to seduce John, but has truly fallen in love with him and gives up her life to save him and Sherlock, leaving John devasted and Sherlock feeling guilty.

 

As for the baby, I don't know.  I guess I'm a terrible person, but I don't think I'd be unduly bothered by the death of a fictional unborn child.  Hard to imagine the writers doing that, though.  Maybe she isn't really pregnant (and was just playing Sherlock with her "symptoms"), or the baby isn't John's (Mycroft's, oh Lord!  That would be twisted).  But I don't want John to be a father because I want him back with in 221B with Sherlock and I think the flat would be really hard to child-proof.  (Like I said, I'm a terrible person.)

 

You might be terrible if you felt this way about real people, but the lovely thing about fiction is, that one can freely hate characters or plot their deaths and tragic losses without much compunction if one is so inclined.

 

I don't want them to become too much in tune with Doyle regarding Sherlock and John, because you know how Holmes and Watson ended?

 

The detective gave up his work and any kind of companionship and lived as a recluse bee keeper out in the middle of nowhere and the doctor got drawn back into war when WWI came round. Great, huh? I really prefer John in a nice house with his wife and children and Sherlock at 221b with his cases and the violin and Mrs Hudson's tea to that!

 

 

 

My biggest objection to killing Mary and / or her child is that the idea of John grieving for the loss of a person close to his heart has already been dealt with to considerable length. I do not see how it would be possible to write a repetition of that without getting into very stale waters and inviting very tasteless comparisons. My second biggest objection is that I have come to really like Abbington's Mary and she has only just been introduced as a character - it's way too early for her to leave. And I don't expect she will, no matter what the cliffhanger might lead us to think.

 

Maybe this makes me the terrible person, but I must admit that I love where the characters stand at the end of The Sign of Three: John and Mary a happy and very close couple (so close, apparently, that they don't have to make a big deal out of their love and seem to have been together for ages already) and Sherlock definitely both their best friend and in some respects like a child of theirs, but when push comes to shove a not altogether perfectly happy loner. It appeals to prickly me even more than "the boys" in their chairs among the Baker St mess - and that is saying a lot. They can't stay boys for ever, anyway. I think they're growing up into men and it's not exactly the disappointment I expected.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2014 by Undead Medic
Added spoiler tags

[Loekie]

Why we are not ought to see what the deductions of Sherlock were, when he observed Tom, the new boyfriend of Molly?   ^_^ Sorry, I think this was in the previous episode.

 

Btw, I changed my vote from 4/10 to 8/10. I watched this episode again and it seems that that is necessary for me to let things fall in places.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

I don't want them to become too much in tune with Doyle regarding Sherlock and John, because you know how Holmes and Watson ended? The detective gave up his work and any kind of companionship and lived as a recluse bee keeper out in the middle of nowhere and the doctor got drawn back into war when WWI came round. Great, huh? I really prefer John in a nice house with his wife and children and Sherlock at 221b with his cases and the violin and Mrs Hudson's tea to that!

...

Maybe this makes me the terrible person, but I must admit that I love where the characters stand at the end of The Sign of Three: John and Mary a happy and very close couple (so close, apparently, that they don't have to make a big deal out of their love and seem to have been together for ages already) and Sherlock definitely both their best friend and in some respects like a child of theirs, but when push comes to shove a not altogether perfectly happy loner.

 

Seriously? That was the original characters' fates? That's rather terrible, isn't it? I can't imagine bringing Sherlock so far in his character development, and then have him retreat from all company, including John's. But perhaps John leaves first to go to war, and then Sherlock goes into hiding? That would make some sense, but it's still really sad. I agree with you; I definitely prefer John and Mary together, and Sherlock living in Baker St. alone, but still as their best friend.

 

Weill, it's all up to Gatiss and Moffat!

 

Sherlock being a bit of a loner actually appeals to me. The ending of TSoT is heart-breaking, but I have to admit, I love it.

[sherlockandjohn]

Why we are not ought to see what the deductions of Sherlock were, when he observed Tom, the new boyfriend of Molly?   ^_^ Sorry, I think this was in the previous episode.

 

Btw, I changed my vote from 4/10 to 8/10. I watched this episode again and it seems that that is necessary for me to let things fall in places.

 

I had to watch both TEH and TSoT twice before I loved them. I got a shock with each of them the first time around I have given them both 10 now, but it took me 8 viewings of TEH to get there, and 3 viewings of TSoT. For me, they took some getting use to. The style is different, the characters have evolved quite a bit, and there is less focus on the detective work - which, surprisingly, I was not comfortable with. I say surprisingly, because I'm much more interested in the characters than the plots, but then again, the plots form an important backdrop.

[wildwoodflower]

 

 

Are you suggesting we saw John and Sherlocks "wedding?"

 

Yes! And no. No, I don't think they are meant to be gay or want to have sex with each other. John needs Mary for that and Sherlock has naked Irene running around in his mind palace - not exactly the fantasy I'd expect from a gay man...

 

But I do feel that these lovely women are being used to keep sex out of what is otherwise a big fat love story. And that's what I think Doyle did, deliberate or not. The sad thing is, I like it, and feminism be damned.

 

 

 

Sorry, don't understand how feminism has anything to do with it? Are you saying you like the love story? If it's a love story between two men I doubt feminism has a problem with it. And my personal dislike of romance novels does not preclude my ability to enjoy a good love story - as a feminist - straight or gay or whatevs. So again, I think you don't understand what feminism is if you think it's about the patriachal oppression that is a love story:-)

 

What I liked about Sign of 3 is that it was made clear that two men can be friends, can love each other without having it be sexual. It's also what I like about Elementary in that we see a man and a woman in a respectful, deep friendship in which they clearly love each other and yet don't feel the need to have sex. This is how it is in real life. You can love without feeling sexual, you can feel sexual without love at all and you can have both.

[Escribblings]

Amanda was just on Steve Wright's show on Radio 2 which will be up on the iPlayer later (for those coming back to this post it is Wednesday 8-1-14 and it starts about 16:20).

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006wr4r

 

There isn't much devoted to Sherlock, but I don't know if anything can be inferred from this:

 

 

In the interview she laughingly says they all die, then a bit more seriously say no they don't. Doesn't mean to say they won't kill her off though).

 

[Cheerio1021]

 

 

My biggest objection to killing Mary and / or her child is that the idea of John grieving for the loss of a person close to his heart has already been dealt with to considerable length. I do not see how it would be possible to write a repetition of that without getting into very stale waters and inviting very tasteless comparisons. My second biggest objection is that I have come to really like Abbington's Mary and she has only just been introduced as a character - it's way too early for her to leave. And I don't expect she will, no matter what the cliffhanger might lead us to think.

 

 

You're right that it would really be putting John through the wringer for two seasons in a row.  Doyle wasn't much kinder to the poor guy, though.  Watson lost Holmes and then lost Mary even before Holmes came back.  At least this John has Sherlock back now.

[Janie]

I've just seen in for the third time and again I changed my mind. At first I was disappointed that there wasn't a proper case but when I saw it last night and tonight again I totally fell love with it. I agree that the characters (especially Sherlock) have to evolve and although I loved the cold and arogant Sherlock, I think I love the new more human Sherlock as well.

[Karie]

In the best man speech, when Sherlock has realised that there is a murderer present, and he starts walking around among the guests, talking in a way that barely makes sense... I love how John quickly realises that something is wrong. Sherlock often acts manically, and it's hard to tell the reason, but John can.

 

Yes, I loved that, too! I love how in tune they are! I also love, love, love that Mycroft was in Sherlock's head yelling something like,"Focus! Focus! Focus!" and Sherlock was really distracted by it and was slapping himself saying,"Not you! Not you! Not you!" and then his eyes landed on John and he immediately cleared and said,"You! You, John Watson. You keep me right!" I love that John is the one person who grounds and centers Sherlock. Regardless of whether you view their relationship as platonic, romantic, unresolved sexual tension, or whatever... they are soul mates, through and through. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want them to become too much in tune with Doyle regarding Sherlock and John, because you know how Holmes and Watson ended? The detective gave up his work and any kind of companionship and lived as a recluse bee keeper out in the middle of nowhere and the doctor got drawn back into war when WWI came round. Great, huh? I really prefer John in a nice house with his wife and children and Sherlock at 221b with his cases and the violin and Mrs Hudson's tea to that!

 

 

 

 

 

:( Oh, great. So I guess I shouldn't bother reading the last story in that big book I bought.  :'(

[Undead Medic]

Just a reminder, plot for the original works can be counted as spoilers too, not everyone has got round to reading them yet.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

I love how in tune they are! I also love, love, love that Mycroft was in Sherlock's head yelling something like,"Focus! Focus! Focus!" and Sherlock was really distracted by it and was slapping himself saying,"Not you! Not you! Not you!" and then his eyes landed on John and he immediately cleared and said,"You! You, John Watson. You keep me right!"

 

That scene gets me! I know what you mean. For some possibly ridiculous reason, my heart swells at those words, "you keep me right".

[Slithytove]

One topic which this season seems to highlight is Mycroft's loneliness. It is specifically referenced in TEH and strongly implied in TSoT, where Mycroft appears to be almost glad that Sherlock, parted from John by marriage, will have to turn to his brother for company (a suggestion which Sherlock rejects immediately, of course.)

 

I wonder if there is a reason why the writers have chosen to suggest, at this point, that Mycroft is a very lonely man. In the previous series, he seemed reasonably content with his situation - or, if not content, prepared to accept his isolation as the price for living by the adage that "caring is not an advantage."

 

Of the two men, Sherlock seems to have a greater capacity for loneliness as he is more volatile and emotional than Mycroft, more likely to become involved with other people and risk being lonely in their absence. Now it would seem that Mycroft, never having had anyone but his brother in his life, is subject to a much deeper loneliness.

 

I wonder if this is done to highlight the pain which would result from a rift between the brothers over Magnusson, which if certainly implied in the trailer for HLV. On the other hand, I am hopeless at guessing what will happen, so it is probably nothing of the sort!

[sherlockandjohn]

Just a reminder, plot for the original works can be counted as spoilers too, not everyone has got round to reading them yet.

 

Very sorry  that was my mistake. The original quote was in a spoiler box, and somehow, while quoting, I 'unboxed' it.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want them to become too much in tune with Doyle regarding Sherlock and John, because you know how Holmes and Watson ended? The detective gave up his work and any kind of companionship and lived as a recluse bee keeper out in the middle of nowhere and the doctor got drawn back into war when WWI came round. Great, huh? I really prefer John in a nice house with his wife and children and Sherlock at 221b with his cases and the violin and Mrs Hudson's tea to that!

 

 

 

 

 

:( Oh, great. So I guess I shouldn't bother reading the last story in that big book I bought.  :'(

 

 

I am really sorry   I absolutely should have been more careful with quoting. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Karie]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want them to become too much in tune with Doyle regarding Sherlock and John, because you know how Holmes and Watson ended? The detective gave up his work and any kind of companionship and lived as a recluse bee keeper out in the middle of nowhere and the doctor got drawn back into war when WWI came round. Great, huh? I really prefer John in a nice house with his wife and children and Sherlock at 221b with his cases and the violin and Mrs Hudson's tea to that!

 

 

 

 

 

:( Oh, great. So I guess I shouldn't bother reading the last story in that big book I bought.  :'(

 

 

I am really sorry   I absolutely should have been more careful with quoting. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

 

 

No worries, darling! It's best to know up front, I guess, so

I can avoid reading it. Because that would devastate me, to get to the end of all that wonderfulness with the Watson/Holmes friendship, and have it end like that! Better to end with the last story that has them happy and together!

 

[sherlockandjohn]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want them to become too much in tune with Doyle regarding Sherlock and John, because you know how Holmes and Watson ended? The detective gave up his work and any kind of companionship and lived as a recluse bee keeper out in the middle of nowhere and the doctor got drawn back into war when WWI came round. Great, huh? I really prefer John in a nice house with his wife and children and Sherlock at 221b with his cases and the violin and Mrs Hudson's tea to that!

 

 

 

 

 

:( Oh, great. So I guess I shouldn't bother reading the last story in that big book I bought.  :'(

 

 

I am really sorry   I absolutely should have been more careful with quoting. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

 

 

No worries, darling! It's best to know up front, I guess, so

I can avoid reading it. Because that would devastate me, to get to the end of all that wonderfulness with the Watson/Holmes friendship, and have it end like that! Better to end with the last story that has them happy and together!

 

 

 

I feel the same way

 

which is why I feel so bad... I got a bit of a shock myself.

I haven't read any of the books yet, but I am considering it. It's a bit sad, though, thinking of such an ending. I must admit, I'm a sucker for at least somewhat happy endings - and separating John and Sherlock is harsh.

 

[Karie]

 

 

I feel the same way

 

which is why I feel so bad... I got a bit of a shock myself.

I haven't read any of the books yet, but I am considering it. It's a bit sad, though, thinking of such an ending. I must admit, I'm a sucker for at least somewhat happy endings - and separating John and Sherlock is harsh.

 

 

 

Oh, definitely! I don't know if you ever watched the show Nip/Tuck, but (spoilers for Nip/Tuck series finale and discussion of Sherlock Holmes ending in slight juxtaposition)

it was kind of like that.  The two male leads had this amazing, brothers-for-life friendship that was the driving force behind why I watched the show, even in later seasons when it started to suck.  But they were also very destructive together, and as much as I loved them together (and as much as it broke my heart), when they parted ways forever out of necessity in the series finale, I felt like that was really the only way it could have gone. They loved each other so much, but they weren't good for each other, and would never have been able to live happy, normal lives while they were together. It was very bittersweet. 

Not that I think Sherlock and John are destructive together (quite the opposite, they SAVE each other), or that separation will in any way be OK for them... but what you posted reminded me of that in a way and I couldn't help but draw a parallel between how much Sherlock and John love each other, and how much Christian and Sean loved each other. I really hope they don't follow canon on the show in regards to how the two end up when Sherlock is done.

 

[genre]

I LOVED this episode SO MUCH!!!! It's been forever since a show or movie has made me laugh that much and yet it was still so touching and full of feels!!!! It's my new favorite episode, I think!!! 

 

- g 

[Karie]

Welcome, Genre!  

 

It's definitely my favorite, too! So much so that I went on amazon Sunday after it aired and reserved a copy of the dvd. I need that one in my library forever, forget Netflix! 

[SherlockBatman]

Here is my summary of the episode

 

 

 

 

  But maybe wish there was a bit more      (A.k.a. case work and action)

 

But I feel it's set us up for The Last Vow being packed with action and intrigue. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

This is not going to end well. Marys face when Sherlock reads out the telegram from CAM.

 

Thank you for pointing that out, shoot999!  I heard the name as "Cam" (short for Cameron, perhaps), and it never occurred to me (or to Sherlock either, apparently) that it could be initials.  *shudder*

 

I have to find a way to excuse the behavior for my own enjoyment of the series.

I think most of us are willing to do some selective emphasis. Goodness knows it's the only way I dare to watch "Blind Banker"!

 

The bit with the train was unnecessarily cruel, especially.  We've seen Sherlock be obtuse, we've seen him be an ass when he's showing off and making deductions.  But I can't remember him ever going out of his way to be mean FOR A JOKE.

Apologies if I already said this in the "Empty Hearse" thread, but I don't think he did it for a joke. He had already tried several times to apologize, and John was still holding a grudge. I suspect he thought that if he could trick John into forgiving him, that would help. And it really did seem to break the ice.   Of course, Sherlock doesn't handle it very well at the end!

  

... the episodes felt disjointed and chaotic to me with all of the jumping around they did.  I was left with the impression that, perhaps Gatiss & Moffat felt the pressure of the enormous expectations that people now have of them with this show and that they "tried too hard" to make it "shinier" for lack of a better word.

These episodes feel somewhat disjointed to me as well, especially "Empty Hearse." I suspect Moftiss had so many loose ends to tie up from Series 2 that they simply packed too much into that one episode. "Sign of Three" didn't strike me as nearly so chaotic (a lot of flashbacks, yes, but much more clearly organized). So I'm expecting that things will be more "normal" with the third episode.

 

Since I've used up my quota of 'likes' for the day, I'll just quote your comment and say how much I 'like' it

Good heavens, I had no idea there was a quota! What is it?

[SherlockBatman]

I wonder if in regards to Mary, the big shock may not be that she is killed because as others have said, Watson grieving someone close to him has already been covered.

 

So instead of that angle, the heart breaking moment will actually be that Mary becomes an enemy of both Sherlock and Watson, aligning herself with CAM (Or maybe someone else) against them?

 

This could cause a conflict between Watson and Holmes, especially to begin with, as Watson may not or at not want to believe it where as in that type of situation Sherlock may be quite cut and dry.

 

Maybe Sherlock knows or has had suspicions Mary will betray them all along? And this has been why he's been looking at her strangely from time to time? Not in compassion for her but compassion for John knowing a baby will make what's to come even worse?

[Carol the Dabbler]

A few random comments:

 

The newspaper article at the very beginning refers to Lestrade as "DCI Lestrade," which I take to mean "Detective Chief Inspector" (although the end credits still list him as "DI Lestrade").  Sounds like a promotion -- congratulations, Graham Gavin Greg!

 

Mary's name is now Mary Elizabeth Watson, so her initials are MEW -- and Sherlock deduced in "Empty Hearse" that she's a cat lover!

 

Near as I can recall, this series is the first time they've EVER had the episode's title IN the episode.  Anderson mentioned in the first episode that his little club is called "The Empty Hearse."  In this episode, Sherlock calls his deduction of Mary's pregnancy "The Sign of Three" -- and even makes his (first and) "Last Vow" (OK, so that one didn't include the first word of the title -- but maybe they'll rectify that in the next episode).

 

The attempted murders in this episode combine two standard mystery-story plots -- the locked room (which they used before in "Blind Banker") and "the butler did it" (which they used before in "Study in Pink" with the cabbie).

 

Mrs. Hudson's date at the wedding -- was that Mr. Chatterjee?  Really?

 

Ariane DeVere has begun posting her transcript for this episode.

 

How did the bank robbery sub-plot turn out?  One more "Sign of Four" tie-in that I didn't catch till I read the transcript:

 

LESTRADE: You make the arrest.
DONOVAN: No way!
LESTRADE: Sorry. You’ll be fine. I’m-I’m-I’m cool with this.
DONOVAN: Jones’ll get all the credit if you leave now! You know he will!
 

Surely that's our old "friend" Athelney Jones!