Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[sfmpco]

 

 

... murder is unforgivable...

 

Just curious: So did you think it wrong that John got away with killing the cabbie at the end of the first episode?

 

 

 

 

Well, he wasn't a nice man.  And he was a bloody awful cabbie.  Took a terrible route to get to that location.

[sfmpco]

I was wondering after looking at the end of ASIP when Sherlock and Mycroft had that little conversation about the fued they had because of whatever Mycroft had done that really upset their mother.  Wonder if it has anything to do with the "other one."  Will we ever get an answer???

[Zain]

Ah, I thought it could be related to their father. In the commentary, it was hinted back then that Mr Holmes cheated on his wife. That's why the theory that "The other one" is a half-sibling is rather prominent. But, of course, it could also mean Mycroft did something in the past. We just don't know, to quote Stephen Fry and lots of scientists....

[sfmpco]

Ah, I thought it could be related to their father. In the commentary, it was hinted back then that Mr Holmes cheated on his wife. That's why the theory that "The other one" is a half-sibling is rather prominent. But, of course, it could also mean Mycroft did something in the past. We just don't know, to quote Stephen Fry and lots of scientists....

 

Yes, I know was hinted at in the commentary, but also John says, "His lovely mum and dad.  A fine example of married life."  So maybe they're not ever going to play with that infidelity idea.  Certainly there is no hint of it yet.  

[Caya]

I was wondering after looking at the end of ASIP when Sherlock and Mycroft had that little conversation about the fued they had because of whatever Mycroft had done that really upset their mother.  Wonder if it has anything to do with the "other one."  Will we ever get an answer???

 

Maybe it was the "other one" who got Mummy upset - doesn't Sherlock say something like, "it wasn't me who upset her"? We just thought back then that this left only Mycroft or Daddy Holmes as suspects, but now there's ... another one .

[Zain]

 

Ah, I thought it could be related to their father. In the commentary, it was hinted back then that Mr Holmes cheated on his wife. That's why the theory that "The other one" is a half-sibling is rather prominent. But, of course, it could also mean Mycroft did something in the past. We just don't know, to quote Stephen Fry and lots of scientists....

 

Yes, I know was hinted at in the commentary, but also John says, "His lovely mum and dad.  A fine example of married life."  So maybe they're not ever going to play with that infidelity idea.  Certainly there is no hint of it yet.  

 

 

Or it's a terrible hint at the fact that it is just as much of a fine example of married life as his own. I've seen this as one of the "arguments" for the "Baby is not John's" theories.

Some have thought about the possibility that they decided to reverse it, to have it be an older child of Mrs Holmes.

We just do not know. Could be everything, could be nothing. It will be whatever Moftiss fancied while riding that train of theirs...

[sfmpco]

 

Or it's a terrible hint at the fact that it is just as much of a fine example of married life as his own. I've seen this as one of the "arguments" for the "Baby is not John's" theories.

Some have thought about the possibility that they decided to reverse it, to have it be an older child of Mrs Holmes.

We just do not know. Could be everything, could be nothing. It will be whatever Moftiss fancied while riding that train of theirs...

 

 

And should it never come up again, then we shall chalk it up to being insignificant and a red herring.

[Zain]

Well, I think they will put some meaning behind it. Threads like those are dangerous to writers, you can get entangled rather easily. That's why it is considered better to "connect" the threads. Bring them to some superficial closure.

The "other one" comment looks to me like building up to that point. Be it either to take it back and give it insignificant meaning with some sort of derogatory comment by Sherlock like "Oh, Mycroft told her she was a bad mother" or use it for the plot, like connecting if with some half-sibling story. The comment at the end of HLV is too conveniently placed there not to be picked up. Could be red herring, yes, but they build up to something like that, what, with introducing the parents, and giving us a glimpse of their home life, and naming Mrs Holmes as the author of Moriarty's book.

[Arcadia]

 

Let's hope so. I hope the Christmas special will be a flashback of some sort. Maybe let us explore how Sherlock and Lestrade met.

Which is possible. Not the Lestrade bit. But that it is a flashback. The end of HLV is not well-suited for an interlude episode, unless you either make it a spin-off or flashback. Very difficult to make it a believable chronologically following episode.

 

I could do with a flashback. No Mary, and one last episode before the big bang... which will probably be very disappointing to me. Could be a form of closure, too.

 

I agree, if they don't start more or less where they left off, it will be too jarring. But a Christmas special is supposed to be special, isn't it? Sort of outside the regular timeline? (Otherwise, what's so special about it?) So yep, I vote for flashback. Also because I think I'd really like to see one.

 

Mr. Freeman said it was a "mouth watering" idea, maybe it will be about that time he and Sherlock went undercover as chefs.

[sfmpco]

LOL Arcadia!  Yes, they pose as chefs on Hell's Kitchen to find out who is out to sabotage the grand prize...  Sherlock and Gordon Ramsay head to toe... not sure who would win.

 

If the special moves at all forward in time, then we should assume the Watsons will already have their little girl.  But if it is a flashback episode of some sort... maybe something with Sherlock and John before Mary was introduced... at this point anyone's guess could be right on the money.  Of course we are all wanting a taste or two more of Sherlock and Mycroft being young brothers.

 

 

[sfmpco]

According to Mrs. Hudson, this is one of Sherlock's bolt holes.  This image appeared on Twitter today from @visitBritain

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Cool, sfmpco -- so a person really could hide behind the Big Ben clock face -- there's a doorway and everything!
 

So, I'd say that here, they do not shoot unless the situation seems to be dire, and when they do, they mostly give off warning shots.

If I understand you correctly, though, a warning shot is an intentional miss. I assume that police here do that as well -- fire their gun into the air to get the perp's attention. I was more wondering about what you said here, whether John should have shot to merely injure the cabbie.
 

I know an excop & here in the US they are trained to shoot @ 1 target... The heart... They are to shoot to kill.

Thanks, Jess -- I thought I'd heard that somewhere. So apparently they either miss intentionally (a warning shot) or they shoot to kill (though of course they don't always succeed). I think that (here in the US, at least) the idea of intentionally "shooting to incapacitate" is pretty much limited to television (largely because it is so tricky to pull off) -- which is the point I was trying to make, back there a few pages.
 

Well, Mary said that Magnussen had information on her that she would go to prison for life for if it came out. So yes, I assume Mary was mostly afraid he'd bring down the law on her. But what Magnussen said to John at Appledore sounded more like contacting the families of her victims. Who I bet were not all nice, ordinary citizens with nice, harmless, ordinary connections...

The only time I recall Mary saying she could go to prison was in reference to what was on the AGRA flash drive, and I don't believe that had anything to do with Magnussen. But I think you're absolutely right about what he said at Appledore!
 

And just for the record, Magnussen said that she had been a "bad girl" - and if someone like Magnussen considered what she did bad, it can hardly have been heroic.

 
If we're believing Magnussen. 
 

I have never enjoyed or laughed at a scene when somebody is killed. I might simply have a different kind of humour, but to me every death is so unbelievably sad and a waste of potential.

I heartily agree as regards real-world death.

But that doesn't mean I can't laugh when a cartoon character gets smashed flat. Nor does it mean that I can't laugh myself silly over an incredible blood-bath on Fargo.  (Perhaps the key word in both cases is "incredible" -- as in "can't be taken seriously.")  By the way, I would recommend that you NOT watch Fargo -- apparently just not your kinda show!  (Alex didn't like it either.)
 

The comment at the end of HLV is too conveniently placed there not to be picked up. Could be red herring, yes, but they build up to something like that, what, with introducing the parents, and giving us a glimpse of their home life, and naming Mrs Holmes as the author of Moriarty's book.

I agree, they're surely going somewhere with that.

 

Mrs. Holmes's book (in "Last Vow") had a similar title (but not identical) to the title of Professor Moriarty's book (in "The Final Problem").  So maybe that's meant to imply that she is similar (but not identical) to him?

 

[sfmpco]

I always felt the thing with the mathematics book was a little nod that her genius led to having two boys who were also geniuses.  

[jesskayding]

LOL Arcadia! Yes, they pose as chefs on Hell's Kitchen to find out who is out to sabotage the grand prize... Sherlock and Gordon Ramsay head to toe... not sure who would win.

 

If the special moves at all forward in time, then we should assume the Watsons will already have their little girl. But if it is a flashback episode of some sort... maybe something with Sherlock and John before Mary was introduced... at this point anyone's guess could be right on the money. Of course we are all wanting a taste or two more of Sherlock and Mycroft being young brothers.

 

Ha... Chef Ramsey don't play! Ooooo I don't know... Instead of Sherlock saying go or leave... Chef will be like, what the ****, get the *@*** @**** ***@@ out of my kitchen NOW!

[jesskayding]

I always felt the thing with the mathematics book was a little nod that her genius led to having two boys who were also geniuses.

You know she allowed her boys to think she's just ordinary. I think she realized with age that being extraordinary takes a lot of effort.. I would think it would age you wrather quickly as well. She apparently married a dope. Probably a vacation for her brain. Becoming a house wife probably made her even more in touch with emotions... Therefore choosing to become less analytical.

 

I have no idea what I'm talking about or if this even makes since... Oh well time to turn the channel to mí favorite Comedy... The US remake of The Office... That Steve Corell? Is a comedic genius.

[sfmpco]

 

I always felt the thing with the mathematics book was a little nod that her genius led to having two boys who were also geniuses.

You know she allowed her boys to think she's just ordinary. I think she realized with age that being extraordinary takes a lot of effort.. I would think it would age you wrather quickly as well. She apparently married a dope. Probably a vacation for her brain. Becoming a house wife probably made her even more in touch with emotions... Therefore choosing to become less analytical.

 

I have no idea what I'm talking about or if this even makes since... Oh well time to turn the channel to mí favorite Comedy... The US remake of The Office... That Steve Corell? Is a comedic genius.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

A cooked goose and full Christmas Dinner could certainly be regarded as "mouthwatering"?   Still holding out hope it's a version of "The Blue Carbuncle."

[sfmpco]

A cooked goose and full Christmas Dinner could certainly be regarded as "mouthwatering"?   Still holding out hope it's a version of "The Blue Carbuncle."

 

Well, they may take elements from that but they'll undoubtedly come up with something totally wonderful to underpin it it all.  Will be interesting to see Sherlock eat.  He rarely eats.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Yeah.....this is so very true.  All the rest is transport....as he likes to say. Digestion is bad for the "Work". Takes blood away from the little grey cells.

[jesskayding]

http://airherald.com/sherlock-season-4-confirmed-but-no-release-date-specified-yet/4011/

 

This site is stating matter of factly that season 4 will be uncovering Mary Watson's dark past...

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

I think it's kind of early days yet. I don't think Mofftiss has leaked anything...and the way they play things....neither will any of the other cast and crew......they may hint and hedge....but Mark Gatiss runs a tight ship and he hates it when someone carries tales out of school.

[Arcadia]

A cooked goose and full Christmas Dinner could certainly be regarded as "mouthwatering"?   Still holding out hope it's a version of "The Blue Carbuncle."

And it will be called "The Red Pustule" as they all break out in carbuncles due to a staph infection from an improperly cooked goose.

 

Will be interesting to see Sherlock eat.  He rarely eats.

The tabloids will have a heyday.

[Slithytove]

Cool, sfmpco -- so a person really could hide behind the Big Ben clock face -- there's a doorway and everything!

 

So, I'd say that here, they do not shoot unless the situation seems to be dire, and when they do, they mostly give off warning shots.

If I understand you correctly, though, a warning shot is an intentional miss. I assume that police here do that as well -- fire their gun into the air to get the perp's attention. I was more wondering about what you said here, whether John should have shot to merely injure the cabbie.

I know an excop & here in the US they are trained to shoot @ 1 target... The heart... They are to shoot to kill.

Thanks, Jess -- I thought I'd heard that somewhere. So apparently they either miss intentionally (a warning shot) or they shoot to kill (though of course they don't always succeed). I think that (here in the US, at least) the idea of intentionally "shooting to incapacitate" is pretty much limited to television (largely because it is so tricky to pull off) -- which is the point I was trying to make, back there a few pages.

Well, Mary said that Magnussen had information on her that she would go to prison for life for if it came out. So yes, I assume Mary was mostly afraid he'd bring down the law on her. But what Magnussen said to John at Appledore sounded more like contacting the families of her victims. Who I bet were not all nice, ordinary citizens with nice, harmless, ordinary connections...

The only time I recall Mary saying she could go to prison was in reference to what was on the AGRA flash drive, and I don't believe that had anything to do with Magnussen. But I think you're absolutely right about what he said at Appledore!

And just for the record, Magnussen said that she had been a "bad girl" - and if someone like Magnussen considered what she did bad, it can hardly have been heroic.

If we're believing Magnussen.

I have never enjoyed or laughed at a scene when somebody is killed. I might simply have a different kind of humour, but to me every death is so unbelievably sad and a waste of potential.

I heartily agree as regards real-world death.

 

But that doesn't mean I can't laugh when a cartoon character gets smashed flat. Nor does it mean that I can't laugh myself silly over an incredible blood-bath on Fargo. (Perhaps the key word in both cases is "incredible" -- as in "can't be taken seriously.") By the way, I would recommend that you NOT watch Fargo -- apparently just not your kinda show! (Alex didn't like it either.)

The comment at the end of HLV is too conveniently placed there not to be picked up. Could be red herring, yes, but they build up to something like that, what, with introducing the parents, and giving us a glimpse of their home life, and naming Mrs Holmes as the author of Moriarty's book.

I agree, they're surely going somewhere with that.

 

Mrs. Holmes's book (in "Last Vow") had a similar title (but not identical) to the title of Professor Moriarty's book (in "The Final Problem"). So maybe that's meant to imply that she is similar (but not identical) to him?

I'm no expert on firearms or police procedure but I share Zain's discomfort about armed police. I think I've only seen them once in the UK, when we were at an airport and there were a couple of officers there with machine guns. I didn't feel very happy in their presence. ( Also, of course, there were alarms bells going off in my head about why they needed to be there!) The police here aren't normally armed - which makes me wonder why Lestrade had a gun in THoB - but officers trained in the use of firearms can be called to an incident when needed. I was always under the impression that they did not go for a kill shot unless necessary, but I could be wrong. I do remember a big investigation, during the Troubles in Northern Ireland, when it was alleged that the Royal Ulster Constabulary were operating on a "shoot to kill" policy.

 

I thought Mary said CAM had enough on her to send her to prison for life. I don't remember her saying it re. the A.G.R.A. flash drive. Again, I could be wrong.

 

Given that we don't knew whether CAM was a liar or not, I don't think we can pick and choose what to believe. If he was telling the truth about being willing and able to contact people who hated Mary because of her past, why should he be lying when he said she'd been a very bad girl? One statement is as likely to be true, or false, as the other.

 

Your suggestion that Mummy Holmes is similar to Moriarty is intriguing. What similarities could they be implying? We already know she is a mathematical genius, so it can't be that. Are they saying she is a psychopath? The head of a vast criminal network? A capricious maniac with a death wish? Actually, even though I'm kidding, I almost wish she did reveal a dark side. As an older woman myself, I'd like to see a mature female character who isn't just fluffy and mumsy. Mrs Hudson is great but we don't need another sweet old lady - I would love Mummy to really "turn monstrous" when she finds out who shot her boy.

[sfmpco]

So very happy that this episode has received 12 Emmy nominations!  Woot!  Hoping BC wins for best actor, even though I know he's up against MF for FARGO.  However, MF is also nominated for best supporting actor for SHERLOCK, so let's have him win there.

 

HLV is a super episode and I hope it can sweep up the awards it has been nominated for.

[sfmpco]

http://airherald.com/sherlock-season-4-confirmed-but-no-release-date-specified-yet/4011/

 

This site is stating matter of factly that season 4 will be uncovering Mary Watson's dark past...