Speedy's Cafe - General Chat about anything you like!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Way back when, I had a Pakinstani penpal who would send me special greetings on Eid, and I suppose I sent her Christmas cards. I considered it a cultural exchange.

[J.P.]

Sometimes I wonder if those PC advocates are stupid or working for the nationalists, as there is no better way to scare people more than make them think their traditions and religion are endangered.

 

Christmas is an official holiday. As long as we are living in countries with Christian culture, there is nothing wrong with Merry Christmas. If I lived in another culture I would wish everyone Happy (insert an important holiday of your choice) and not expect wishes for Christian holidays. If it happened I would be grateful someone took an effort to acknowledge my cultural heritage.

[Arcadia]

Some of my Jewish friends aren't exactly offended by being wished "Merry Christmas", but they tell me they do feel a bit ... marginalized? ... this time of year. And of course many Christians are openly hostile to other faiths, so I think that can get into the mix as well; if you're in a "despised" minority, the insistence on Christmas, and only Christmas, could be a bit intimidating, I bet. So I can understand why some people, who want to signal acceptance instead of exclusion, feel the generic "Happy Holidays" is a better choice, especially when addressing strangers.

 

I don't though, I use "Merry Christmas", mostly out of habit ... and I'm not a Christian either. Was raised as one, though, and I love our family traditions surrounding the holiday, none of which have any religious meaning. To us, I mean. They might to other people. Which is fine, just as long as they don't bother to lecture me about it. No better way to spoil my Christmas spirit than to have someone start telling me what it "really" means.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

In all reality Christmas didn't even start out as a Christian holiday. If Christians really wanted to celebrate the birth of Christ at the correct time of year, we'd be doing it in October during Succoth, the Jewish feast of Tents, as that was tax season. December is part of the rainy season when shepherds are not on the hillsides watching their flocks but in caves and other covered pens keeping their sheep dry.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Actually I still don't understand why it's un-PC. Just heard about it after last year's Christmas from various websites (probably here too?). But no one around me, those who celebrate Christmas or not, seems to think it's un-PC, so screw it for now. But I'm open for convincing reasoning, after all, what is good for me may not be good for others, if it's justifiable. I also got various and said various greetings to others, which I don't mind at all. As long as they are public holidays, I celebrate them XD.

 

Anyway, let's make Mycroft throw up if you have nice stories to share, since it's supposed to be festive and grateful y'all and I'm feeling high from coffee. :p

 

Do you have nice stories about strangers being nice to you? Or you being nice to stranger, intentionally or not? Or Christmas miracle?

 

My Christmas 'miracle' was when I miscalculate my total final GPA in uni. Somehow, even after multiple calculations, I thought I had it lower and was very pleasantly surprised. Still consider it as miracle.

 

Strangers being nice, I probably shared glimpse of it before. The ones I always remember. We were on budget mountain climbing expedition and were on the mountain base at night when a stormy weather delayed the climb. We decided to find shelter while still in area with some kind of civilization, and found a Muslim farmer house (we knew from the attributes they had). We asked to take shelter on their front terrace, just something as roof on top of our heads.

 

We were a group of rugged looking youngsters with huge tedious backpacks, wet jackets and shoes, and looked obviously different with them (races or perceived religions). Instead of just letting us take shelter on the front porch, the husband and wife let us all inside the house, gave us warm soup and insisted that the girls (me and one girl) used their bedroom while they bunked with their kids and provided everything they had; blanket, pillow etc for the rest of my mates so they were comfortable in the living room. We would be happy with just shelter really. In the morning they even gave us their fresh produces; corn, potatoes, eggs. What we could do was basically gave them couple of tin food we could spare.

 

Another was when I had just changed job, unfamiliar with the route and my bike suddenly stopped after a hiccup in the middle of busy road on the evening when it started to get dark. After multiple attempts to restart it on the road side, I had to push the big and heavy bike and approached what I thought was a mechanic shop. There was a group of scary looking biker guys but I had no choice. Anyway, when they saw me, two of them quickly fetched me and helped me with the bike. It was not a mechanic, but still, they tried to help me restarted it with no result. Luckily, they knew there was a mechanic shop from opposite street. Basically it was a very significant distance since we needed to make a big turn because of road restrictions, with the risk of not making it on time for the closing hour. One guy, the one who looked like those who would cat call or mug you, pushed the bike for me all the way. We made it just in time for the mechanic locking his front door, and he made time to check and 'cured' my bike. It was a exhaust problem. The guy left as soon as he passed my bike over, I only had chance to say quick thank you. The mechanic charged me very small fee, just for the part I busted for multiple restarts, eventhough it's probably obvious I wouldn't be able to tell if he made up my problem. I made my ride safely home and gained knowledge of how to prevent the same thing from happening again. Had never been more thankful.

 

These are made even better that the people who helped me didn't care about our differences or maybe even aware about it at all.

Sometimes I love people. :)

 

Do you guys have any stranger's kindness stories you always grateful for?

[T.o.b.y]

Hmmmm... I remember a doctor who was very kind to me after I had gotten hit by a car while on my bicycle, does that count? I was extremely fortunate because I suffered no major injury. But my knee hurt like hell and I was shocked and trembling. I stumbled into the next doctor's office and said something incoherent to the woman at the desk and they sat me down, gave me water and the doc took me seriously and wasn't annoyed that I had disrupted his morning appointments. When I left that place, the pain was almost gone. It's incredible how much of that sort of thing can be psychosomatic. A nice, quiet, kind professional having a good look and telling me I was okay and tadaa - suddenly, my knee was only a little bruised and I could go home.

[Pseudonym]

For taking offence - maybe it depends how religious an area or a country is? Being surrounded by a lot of people who strongly believe in one religion whilst you're another might be a bit intimidating, and it could be irritating if you feel they are forcing their celebrations onto you. Seems a bit extreme though. But maybe that's just because I don't live in a particularly religious area. 

 

Hm, someone must have done something nice for me at some point but I can't think of anything off the top of my head!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I have a "nice" story that actually happened to me on a Christmas Day, some years back. I'd had to work on Christmas Eve, so in order to spend Christmas with friends in another town, I was taking an early-morning flight.

 

Of course I overslept. I woke with just enough time to call a cab and throw some clothes on. No breakfast, but that was OK, because there was a nice Christmas dinner waiting for me.

 

The cab got me to the airport in plenty of time to catch my first flight, and as soon I deplaned from that one, I checked the monitors to see which gate I needed for the connecting flight. It wasn't listed. I went to the airline's ticket counter. It was closed.

 

I went to another airline's counter, and they were nice enough to look up my flight for me -- it had been cancelled. But-but-but I have a confirmed reservation! Turns out the flight has been cancelled a month previously, before I even bought the ticket, and yet the airline had later confirmed my reservation!

 

Those same people (bless their hearts!) were finally able to find me a late commuter flight to my destination (even though it wasn't on their airline either), so I phoned my friends and let them know when to pick me up.

 

By now I was *starving*. Most of the airport restaurants were closed for the holiday, but I finally found a small cafeteria that was open -- then realized that I'd somehow run off without my credit card.

 

I checked my purse to see how much cash I had, and was appalled to see that it was just a couple of dollar bills and some change. There were no other customers, so the serving lady was just standing there, and I suspect she figured out why it was taking me so long to study the menu -- I was figuring how to get the most calories for what little money I had. I finally approached the counter and asked for mashed potatoes and a couple of other things.

 

When she handed me the plate, the serving of potatoes was two huge scoops -- surely at least twice the standard amount. Bless the cafeteria lady too!

[Doe]

Hm... I am not Christian either. My parents wanted me to decide myself whether I wanted to be baptized at the age when everyone in this Protestant area goes to confirmation class and I said no. Yet I celebrate Christmas, Easter and Pentecost. It's just something I grew up with and I like it.

 

Should I be offended at Merry Christmas? Should Christians be offended that I say Merry Christmas?

 

Confusing. Hm. I just said Merry Christmas to my Christian husband and he seemed to like it so I guess we're good.

 

And the muslim gal I said it to last year sent me a text yesterday wishing us both a Merry Christmas, to which I replied Happy Holidays and that doesn't look like she's offended either.

 

Maybe these things aren't as complicated as some people make them seem...

I have a question to you Toby.

 

We wanted he (my son) to dicade himself his religion but he standed ateist. He don't believe in religion. But this is not correct for me. He should have been at least a religion.

 

Did we make a mistake for set free?

[Fantasy Lover]

As a fellow atheist I have one thing to say to you: you didn't make a mistake, ask him why he wants to be an atheist, most people have a reason not to join a religion.

 

My reasons to become an atheist were the following: I was ashamed, I was ashamed of the blood stain woven throughout the history of Christianity, I was ashamed that we fought wars in the name of our religion, I was ashamed to be a part of a religion that that preached love and tolerance and yet did nothing to prove it. All I saw was cruelty, cruelty to women, to other religions and to the LGBT community.

 

My grandfather has trouble accepting that, he thinks you can't be a good person and go to heaven unless you're religious, I'm sorry but is being religious the only reason you can go to heaven? And not being a good person? I'm having trouble believing that. I AM a good person, I'm part of a Facebook group where everyone is being kind and respectful to one another, we celebrate holidays together ranging from local ones like 4th of July and st Patrick's day to religious ones like Hanukkah and Ramadan, you can be atheist and be a good person, just saying.

[Doe]

As a fellow atheist I have one thing to say to you: you didn't make a mistake, ask him why he wants to be an atheist, most people have a reason not to join a religion.

 

My reasons to become an atheist were the following: I was ashamed, I was ashamed of the blood stain woven throughout the history of Christianity, I was ashamed that we fought wars in the name of our religion, I was ashamed to be a part of a religion that that preached love and tolerance and yet did nothing to prove it. All I saw was cruelty, cruelty to women, to other religions and to the LGBT community.

 

My grandfather has trouble accepting that, he thinks you can't be a good person and go to heaven unless you're religious, I'm sorry but is being religious the only reason you can go to heaven? And not being a good person? I'm having trouble believing that. I AM a good person, I'm part of a Facebook group where everyone is being kind and respectful to one another, we celebrate holidays together ranging from local ones like 4th of July and st Patrick's day to religious ones like Hanukkah and Ramadan, you can be atheist and be a good person, just saying.

 

You are absolutely a good person my dear. We don't share same country, religion, age, family, language, nationalty, culture but we compromise with each other.  You are a good person my dear. :)

 

ı will think about it.

[J.P.]

Doe, if he doesn't believe or doesn't want to belong to any religion (and has the freedom to do so without bad consequences) it makes no sense to force him to pretend.

 

To me you still can be a believer and don't belong to any official religion.
I also was allowed to make my choice. My home was a kind of religious demilitarized area between Jehova's Witnesses and Catholics. The first thing I learned about religion was: the so called truth is merely a point of view.

I tried out many roads and in the end nothing could make me believe, even if I have to say that the private Bible meetings I went to with my JW grandma were interesting, because I was a curious kid. At least i know the Bible a bit.

 

Still call myself agnostic rather than ateist: because hey, I'm only human, maybe I'm wrong :D

[T.o.b.y]

I call myself agnostic as well. I simply don't know if there's a deity or whether any of the religions is more "right" than others. Or maybe the atheists are right.

 

I am very much okay with this uncertainty. If I have a belief, it is in the parable of the blind men and the elefant; everyone is right in a way and nobody is able to comprehend the full truth.

 

I am as appalled by the atrocities committed in the name of religion as anybody but I think they are the fault of those people who do the bad deeds, not of the religions themselves - with the exception of cults that directly propagate violence and hatred of course.

 

In general, I quite like the concepts of holiness and reverence. I like sacred places and rituals.

 

Doe, I would like to point out that no matter what you choose to do as a parent, you cannot make your son believe anything. You could perhaps force him to join some kind of religious organization and go through the motions but you can't control his mind and his heart.

 

Isn't it better if he honestly tells you about his atheism than it would be if he faked a belief that isn't real?

 

Also, you never know what may happen as he grows older. He may change his mind. And if he doesn't, well, he is still your son and he can still be a good person.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[Van Buren Supernova]

We spent a lot of nights not sleeping, doing homeworks and studying together in uni as it was easier to stay awake in a group of close friends. Usually after midnight I would start to talk funny or laugh for nothing. So one night I looked around and realized that all my close friends who were regular in the all-nighter study group; three Catholics, one Christian, were baptized from birth.

 

(My parents let us choose whatever we want, and I was leaning to Catholic as I studied in Catholic school all my life. The reason why parents put us in Catholic school was simply because they were better quality school. Went to school's church every morning simply because I wanted to minimize the socialization. But the fact is, I was never religious).

 

So I asked them whether they regret that their faith were chosen by their parents and whether they would do the same with their kids. I told them if I were to have kids, I would not baptize them as babies/kids and would let them choose by themselves. To be honest, I suddenly found myself in intervention situation, they turned quite serious and explained to me nicely. They, includingy boyfriend back then told me that parents always try to choose what is best for their kids, that is why they would do the same with their kids. To be fair, they seem to get the good sides of religion they choose, so I'm not worried for them, and didn't feel intimidated.

But I still holding on to what I think best, that everyone should have the right to choose for themselves. As more and more I learn and experience stuffs, including violence fueled by religions, trying to understand pov from both assailants and victims, and religions they represent, I became fully agnostic. To me, religion is just another attribute. I don't believe at all that one's kindness, bad or good deed should be associated with certain religion. It's more to a person itself, so religion doesn't matter to me, in fact, I probably feel some bitterness of all bad things caused by religions, in the name of religion and prejudices that goes with them. I don't go a long way to be kind to people, sometimes I don't even bother to be nice, but I try not to harm others, and I think, I think that makes me fall into category 'not a bad person', and that is good in today's standard.

 

So I think you are making the right decision Doe. As long as you educate them about kindness, attribute doesn't really matter. Imho.

[Boton]

For taking offence - maybe it depends how religious an area or a country is? Being surrounded by a lot of people who strongly believe in one religion whilst you're another might be a bit intimidating, and it could be irritating if you feel they are forcing their celebrations onto you. Seems a bit extreme though. But maybe that's just because I don't live in a particularly religious area. 

 

 

I remember the business about not saying "Merry Christmas" starting around the time I was in grad school.  Suddenly, it seemed like we were being told (in my case, by professors and academe in general) that it wasn't just that we should broaden our horizons enough to understand that there are multiple religious traditions in the world, but that saying "Merry Christmas" was, in fact, a form of "piling on" and actually hurting people from other cultures.  That's an awful lot to swallow when you are pretty much reflexively saying something that may have religious roots, but which most of the time just means "have a festive season."  I felt like saying "Merry Christmas" in a store or something just didn't rise to the level of trying to shove my culture down someone else's throat.

 

I think part of it is that Christianity has a tradition of being very adaptable and picking up traditions from other cultures.  As pointed out above, the real birth of Christ was probably in October, but we celebrate Christmas in December because smacking it right on top of other winter holidays (like the winter solstice) made it very palatable to other cultures the early church wanted to convert.  If we went back to the time just after Christ, we wouldn't recognize Christianity, considering that it has gained and lost elements of Judaism, plus picked up bits of gnosticism, Zoroastrianism, and various pagan religions. Many of the earliest saints are actually regional deities that were taken into the church because people were going to continue to ask for their intercession anyway, so it was more practical to just adopt them into Christianity.

 

Even though we don't think of it today, I think that flexibility is part of why Christians really think "Merry Christmas" is for everyone. We did an exercise in grad school (or talked about it, can't remember) where you have a roomful of people decorating for Hanukkah and wishing each other Happy Hanukkah and spinning dreidls and all appropriate traditions, and you ask a Christian to go into the room and see how they feel.  Theoretically, the Christian was supposed to feel some of the marginalization that others might feel at this season.  

 

Of course, it was a tremendous failure.  The Christians *loved* the experience.  They loved the idea they could experience these fun traditions, and no one felt like their own religion was questioned or marginalized in the slightest.  I'm sure that living in an "other" culture for one's entire life can feel quite tiring, but you are definitely fighting an uphill battle to convince most Christians that "Merry Christmas" is anything but a happy greeting that they want to share with people.

[Arcadia]

I call myself agnostic as well. I simply don't know if there's a deity or whether any of the religions is more "right" than others. Or maybe the atheists are right.

 

I am very much okay with this uncertainty. If I have a belief, it is in the parable of the blind men and the elefant; everyone is right in a way and nobody is able to comprehend the full truth.

 

I am as appalled by the atrocities committed in the name of religion as anybody but I think they are the fault of those people who do the bad deeds, not of the religions themselves - with the exception of cults that directly propagate violence and hatred of course.

 

In general, I quite like the concepts of holiness and reverence. I like sacred places and rituals.

 

I think you have just described me to a "T", but I've never called myself an agnostic ... mostly, I think, for fear that those around me would take offense at the term and try to convert me to their way of thinking. I consider myself to be fairly spiritual, but in my heart of hearts, I just don't know what the "truth" is ... and don't believe anyone else really does, either. That's why it's called faith, I've always thought. (I could be wrong. :P)

 

I do think family traditions are important too, though, in knitting a family together. If religion is part of that tradition, I can see why someone would want their children to adopt their faith too. My mother did, my father didn't care, and I think all of us kids have a little mix of both those attitudes in us.

 

 

Even though we don't think of it today, I think that flexibility is part of why Christians really think "Merry Christmas" is for everyone. We did an exercise in grad school (or talked about it, can't remember) where you have a roomful of people decorating for Hanukkah and wishing each other Happy Hanukkah and spinning dreidls and all appropriate traditions, and you ask a Christian to go into the room and see how they feel.  Theoretically, the Christian was supposed to feel some of the marginalization that others might feel at this season.  

 

Of course, it was a tremendous failure.  The Christians *loved* the experience.  They loved the idea they could experience these fun traditions, and no one felt like their own religion was questioned or marginalized in the slightest.  I'm sure that living in an "other" culture for one's entire life can feel quite tiring, but you are definitely fighting an uphill battle to convince most Christians that "Merry Christmas" is anything but a happy greeting that they want to share with people.

 

You clearly went to grad school with a more "flexible" set of Christians than is normally found around here, I'm afraid. Sure, there are many who are, but there are just as many (or more?) who are not. I know people who insist that no other religion has a right to celebrate at this time of year ... it's the Christian holiday and everyone else should butt out. Some of them have run for office and won. Fortunately, they're still a minority in the legislature, and we finally got rid of one of them this year. (You may have heard about it, he was beaten by a trans-gender woman. I was amazed. Virginia really IS changing!) So as nice as that story is, there are still parts of this country, and the rest of the world, where Christians are not quite so "inclusive" as your experiment might lead some to believe. I think it's more a matter of being a person of good will, myself, than being a member of a particular religion. But I know those who would find that heretical.

 

People doing nice things ... I think most people are generally nice most of the time, so I'm not coming up with a specific example. I'm sure there is one though, I'll have to think on it.

[Boton]

 

 

You clearly went to grad school with a more "flexible" set of Christians than is normally found around here, I'm afraid. Sure, there are many who are, but there are just as many (or more?) who are not. I know people who insist that no other religion has a right to celebrate at this time of year ...  So as nice as that story is, there are still parts of this country, and the rest of the world, where Christians are not quite so "inclusive" as your experiment might lead some to believe. I think it's more a matter of being a person of good will, myself, than being a member of a particular religion. But I know those who would find that heretical.

 

 

 

Wow.  I have to say, I've never encountered a Christian who says no one else should celebrate at this time of year.  Wow.

 

Now, I do know some Christians who, rather politely but definitely, think you are going to hell if you aren't Christian.  I actually dated one in undergrad, and that was essentially why we broke up.  (Well, that's the *excuse* for why we broke up - we broke up because we were 19 years old and didn't know what the heck we did or didn't want in a partner until we tried it out for a while.) 

 

I agree with you on the being a person of good will angle.  On vacation, I took my Protestant-raised self and went to a very special Catholic grotto and prayed on my Buddhist mala.  It was a good experience for me; I trust God can sort out the mixed messages there.

[T.o.b.y]

"Politely but definitely think you are going to hell" :-D That sounds a lot funnier than it probably is.

 

I had a lot of prejudice regarding Christians (the "for real" kind, not the "I got baptized as a baby because of my parents, got confirmed for the presents and the attention and now go to church on Christmas only" kind that's most people around here) until I got into a relationship with and eventually married one. The in-laws are really different than I expected. I actually enjoy talking to them about their faith.

 

I have no idea where they think I will end up after I die but since they haven't made much of an effort to convert me, they can't be too convinced that I am eternally damned (or they just don't care :-P).

[J.P.]

You know what? Recently, in the light of the discussions about the tolerance and bullying against LGBT people, I started to wonder why wasn't I bullied at school. There were so many reasons to be. Non believer among Catholics (in a very Catholic, although officially secular country), than not really fitting into a gender… An introvert, a "striver", a know-it-all smartass and show-off…

 

I was said I'd go to hell, but I remember it said in concern. People were coming to me for help with the school stuff.

 

Then I was called wrong pronouns almost all my life… and it was fun - mostly because of how terrified people were when they found out they were wrong. We've made it a game while travelling with friends and were giggling, trying not to laugh facing with another confused person who suddenly stopped in the middle of the sentence and tried to manoeuvre out of the situation (and English is very forgiving: you can talk to someone for a long time not using any gender connected words - not so much in Polish).

 

People wanted to throw me out of women's toilets and I was almost beaten up by a drunk who tried to grope my female friend in a train (he thought I was her boyfriend or brother or something). Plus I clearly remember two times when I was said by female schoolmates that's it's a shame I'm not a guy.

 

All that in a society that even back then wasn't especially tolerant - my gay ex schoolfriend emigrated in the 90ies, because he couldn't bear living there any more (he didn't came out in school though).

 

So, what the hell was wrong with me?

[Boton]

"Politely but definitely think you are going to hell" :-D That sounds a lot funnier than it probably is.

 

 

 

I don't know; I think it's pretty funny too.  I remember going to visit extended family of the boyfriend I was referring to earlier.  They had a Bible in every room, which is certainly their right and is perfectly fine.  But I remember thumbing through one and finding a map of hell that told exactly where people were going based on their circumstance: People who were born before Christ were going to hell, but it was a lesser hell because they didn't believe in him because he hadn't shown up yet. Stuff like that.  The family members were unfailingly polite, but I think they knew exactly what section of hell I was headed for within five minutes of meeting me.  (I'm not sure which section, actually.)

 

You know what? Recently, in the light of the discussions about the tolerance and bullying against LGBT people, I started to wonder why wasn't I bullied at school. There were so many reasons to be.

 

...

 

So, what the hell was wrong with me?

 

Maybe nothing is wrong with you at all.  Bullying is a horrible thing, but part of bullying is preying on the vulnerable. You don't seem like a person who projects vulnerability, so maybe you didn't seem like an easy target. Or, maybe some of these things that you have been able to process and dismiss would be considered bullying by someone else or even by you at a different part of your life.

[J.P.]

Well, maybe you are right and I didn't even notice, busy with other things?

 

I certainly wasn't that eager to belong, maybe that's a factor too.

[Pseudonym]

Maybe they prodded at you, you weren't bothered so didn't give the reaction they wanted, so they moved onto easier targets.

[Arcadia]

 

Wow.  I have to say, I've never encountered a Christian who says no one else should celebrate at this time of year.  Wow.

 

Now, I do know some Christians who, rather politely but definitely, think you are going to hell if you aren't Christian.  I actually dated one in undergrad, and that was essentially why we broke up.  (Well, that's the *excuse* for why we broke up - we broke up because we were 19 years old and didn't know what the heck we did or didn't want in a partner until we tried it out for a while.) 

 

I agree with you on the being a person of good will angle.  On vacation, I took my Protestant-raised self and went to a very special Catholic grotto and prayed on my Buddhist mala.  It was a good experience for me; I trust God can sort out the mixed messages there.

 

 

Alas, I have met them. Or read them, or something. If I can find an example I'll share. (Because 'tis the season, and all that. ) And I've been told (quite sincerely) that I'm going to hell by one person who I consider a good friend. And yeah, I like to think that God is big enough to accommodate multiple beliefs.

 

"Politely but definitely think you are going to hell" :-D That sounds a lot funnier than it probably is.

 

I had a lot of prejudice regarding Christians (the "for real" kind, not the "I got baptized as a baby because of my parents, got confirmed for the presents and the attention and now go to church on Christmas only" kind that's most people around here) until I got into a relationship with and eventually married one. The in-laws are really different than I expected. I actually enjoy talking to them about their faith.

 

I have no idea where they think I will end up after I die but since they haven't made much of an effort to convert me, they can't be too convinced that I am eternally damned (or they just don't care :-P).

 

I never had any prejudice against Christians (that I'm aware of) until l met some of the "for real" kind. I grew up in a place/time where your religion was nobody else's business, plus spent much of my childhood in places other religions were the norm, etc etc. It was a great shock to encounter the kind of fundamentalist Christianity they have around here ... by the standards on which I was raised, theirs is "fake" Christianity. Some of their beliefs horrify me. And lord, do they ever insist on talking about it!!!! Agh!! So there's a lot of potential for friction where I live, especially since non-Christians have begun to move here in larger numbers. We have several mosques in the area now, and boy, you should hear the outcry every time someone wants to build another one.

 

But of course, the loudest and least tolerant are in the minority, even here. They just make more noise. Alas, it pushes my buttons, so I have to watch myself and make sure I'm not lumping all Christians together. I try to remember that I quite enjoy going to my mother's church -- the music gets tiring, but the sermons are wonderful -- and I've never had a negative encounter with a single member of that particular denomination. Heck, you don't even have to be a Christian to attend that church, everyone's welcome. I love them.

 

 

So, what the hell was wrong with me?

 

Clearly, you were not obnoxious enough. Go thou and offend someone.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Here are my beliefs regarding God: 1) there is one and He is all powerful, all knowing, and can be everywhere at once 2) He is so loving and caring that He made a clear way to Him (in Heaven) even if the way isn't easy 3) I believe the way to Heaven isn't easy, but it's worth it 4) that way is through Jesus Christ 5) there is a hell and there are not multiple levels to it 6) anyone who ends up there no matter how evil by human standards will be in the same spot (the Lake of fire) 7) the worst example of what God is like is anyone who claims to follow Him (the same is true for all religions in existence regardless of their belief in God. I know this from personal experience and Gandhi is quoted regarding Christianity "I don't like your followers but I like your God") 8) God doesn't want to be "shoved down throats", He wants a relationship (think parent/child).

[T.o.b.y]

Can I just say how much I like the fact that we're talking about religion, we clearly don't all believe the same things yet nobody has gotten into a fight yet? And this is happening on the Internet! Wow. I guess there is hope for humanity after all. :-P

 

Arcadia, I imagine interacting with fundamentalists can be really tough. That's not who I meant when I said my in-laws were "for real", I just used this rather flippant expression to describe a family for whom their religion is important and part of their everyday lives. My father-in-law is a Lutheran pastor and my mother-in-law teaches religion (among other subjects) in school. (And yes, that's a thing in Germany. "Religion" is a regular subject taught in public school. The older kids can usually choose to attend a philosophy or ethics class instead though).

 

When my now husband's and my relationship got serious, I expected trouble, but there was none. Zero, nada. On special occasions, I will accompany them to church and I told them beforehand that I will sing anything but I will remain silent during prayer and I will not say the "Glaubensbekenntnis", the statement of faith, because I have enough respect for their religion that I don't want to lie in church. They were fine with that.