Whose Death Could You Tolerate....

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

My biggest problem with Mary dieing is still that I am afraid a lot of people would cheer. And that would sadden me.

 

Might I ask why that would sadden you? (quickly hides the popcorn behind her back ) I mean, I don't know how many of you watch Game of Thrones, but when a certain character died last season, it felt like half the internet was cheering and applauding :lol: (even the actor was relieved, iirc). So yeah, I understand real life being precious and every person being valuable and all that, but some fictional chars just have it coming .

 

 

This is a tough one to explain.

 

Let's see what I can do:

 

Okay, in the case of Game of Thrones, we're talking about brat-king Joffrey, right? Yeah, his death was great. I was definitely among those who cheered there. Joffrey was pure evil, and it physically hurt to watch him abuse people right and left for three seasons.

 

But we don't have to look as far as another series to find character deaths that please me. Take Magnussen. When I've had a really bad day, I watch a clip of Sherlock shooting him on a loop until I feel better (and then I take a look at Joffrey's lights going out and Tyrion killing his father. The best part is where he loads the crossbow the second time).

 

I'm not too keen on violence, even if it's unrealistic fiction violence, but the demise of a really evil villain is always a blessed relief, and I don't feel bad about those at all, nor about being happy they died. Villains aren't real, they are fictional constructs of evil, meant to be vanquished.

 

A villain death works because it is a deliverance. And a hero's death works because it is tragic. What does not work, in my humble opinion, is if you write a character who is meant to be a good guy and beloved by the good guys, and you kill her, and write the death as this big sad tragedy, and then the audience applauds and high-five each other. And see, that's what I think would happen with Mary. I know you don't like her, and I totally see why, and I understand why some think of her as a villain, but for me, she's clearly not meant to be a villain, and I cannot see her as such. For me, she's part of the big flawed crazy Sherlock family, and it would make me just as sad if people cheered her death as it would if they cheered Molly's, or Lestrade's, or Mrs Hudson's. Would make me more sad, in Mary's case, actually, because I would understand why.

 

I don't even particularly love Mary myself. It's complicated.

[Boton]

 

 

 

 

 

But we don't have to look as far as another series to find character deaths that please me. Take Magnussen. When I've had a really bad day, I watch a clip of Sherlock shooting him on a loop until I feel better... the demise of a really evil villain is always a blessed relief, and I don't feel bad about those at all, nor about being happy they died. Villains aren't real, they are fictional constructs of evil, meant to be vanquished.

 

 

 

 

I suddenly feel much, much better about my habit of using HLV as stress-relief.  If I want a good cry, I just watch the mind palace scene and the "addicted to a certain lifestyle" scene.  If I want something cathartic, I watch the whole thing until Sherlock shoots him.

[Shadow Dweller]

The murdered ones cannot count as clients unless their families ask him to investigate, like the man in S2 with his aunt's ash. But is there anyone in the forum, who, like me, would have had to cultivate a Job-like patience as an elder sibling NOT to beat up the younger pest daily? One must respect such self-restraint in Mycroft! If I were in his place, there might not have been such an annoying geek, as Dr. Watson says in the Fall, to grow to adulthood!

No Sherlock to mess with? Noooo..... :(

[Carol the Dabbler]

I would count the girl who owned Bluebell as a client (true to nature, I'm better at remembering a pet's name than their owner's) :D - do I get brownie points now?

 

Kirsty Stapleton -- hmm, not sure I'd call her a client, since Sherlock never actually accepted her case.  (He did accidentally stumble across the answer, but I doubt that he ever told her -- at least I hope he didn't!)  We could also count the "Geek Interpreters" (since we do see John writing up their case for his blog) and several others that were mentioned in passing, but I think I'd go nuts trying to track all of them down.  Do feel free to compile your own list, of course.

 

(Last time we lived in an actual neighborhood, I knew the names of all the cats and dogs, but very few of their humans -- possibly because I'd often hear the humans call their pets' names, but rarely vice-versa.)

[Arcadia]

(Last time we lived in an actual neighborhood, I knew the names of all the cats and dogs, but very few of their humans -- possibly because I'd often hear the humans call their pets' names, but rarely vice-versa.)

Rarely, as in sometimes? Was this neighborhood near Baskerville, by any chance? :P

[Caya]

Maybe some of them kept parrots :P.
 
I think I understand why, T.o.b.y ... would feel to you like picketing a funeral, huh? Maybe if and when it happens, we should make seperate threads here for those who feel relief that she's gone and those who feel sad about it (as opposed to a general "Mary's death" thread) - might prevent some unnecessary discomfort on either side.
 
And I'd scold you for spoilering who dies, but as I said, you probably had to take a break off the internet last year not to hear about that one, anyway :lol:.
 

 

[Shadow Dweller]

Very good point, Caya ^^ Mary Morstan's death would be injustice because she appear as likeable when Joffrey's, a mere child who is a product of his environment, is to be celebrated.

[joanneta1]

I don't think anybody need worry about Mycroft. Why would Mark Gatiss kill off his own character? No, no, unfortunately (for me), I think Mycroft is perfectly safe.

I shan't go on about Mary, but Mycroft is indispensable in more ways than one. We should not forget that all three times he warned that pesky little brother off someone or something, he was right.

In A Scandal in Belgravia he warns Sherlock at the end of the Irene Adler first debacle to stay away from her, when Sherlock doesn't, the whole thing very nearly comes crashing about his ears and he saves himself by the skin of his eyeteeth when he figures out her passcode.

In TEH, he warns Sherlock that John might not exactly receive him with open arms, although Lestrade does so a little later on, after a very comic sequence and a bloody nose.

In HLV, he warns Sherlock to stay away from Magnussen, and all Sherlock gets to show for his disregard of that warning is becoming a killer and being sent away from his beloved London on what is likely to be a one-way trip.

Why does he NEVER listen to Mycroft's advice in this particular version?

[Shadow Dweller]

I do not doubt that Sherlock had give his brother ulcers but if he actually follow those advices then we, the audience, would not be entertained by his antiques :lol:

[T.o.b.y]

Maybe some of them kept parrots :P.

 

I think I understand why, T.o.b.y ... would feel to you like picketing a funeral, huh? Maybe if and when it happens, we should make seperate threads here for those who feel relief that she's gone and those who feel sad about it (as opposed to a general "Mary's death" thread) - might prevent some unnecessary discomfort on either side.

 

Naaaahhh... that's a very sweet and considerate idea, but I'm not interested in shutting opinions out of my life that are different from my own. I kind of delight in confronting people who think differently, and not necessarily in a belligerent way. If Mary ever does die, cheer all you want wherever you want. I wouldn't mourn her, exactly - I'd just feel even more sorry for the poor woman and for John than I do now.

 

But all this is hypothetical. I'm pretty certain Mary will survive and thrive for quite a few episodes to come. Don't ask me why, exactly, I just am. It's one of those feelings.

 

 

[Inge l-w]

I rather think that of all the main characters, I could tolerate the loss of Mary the easiest, because shooting Sherlock bore out Magnussen's assertion about her past, and I could tolerate the loss of Mycroft the least, he is so British upper civil servant in all episodes!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hello, Inge l-w -- welcome to Sherlock Forum!
 

[Inge l-w]

Thank you, Carol, it's amazing to be here! So much of interest going on! I have watched all three series so many times that some pieces I could quote verbatim, but I enjoy the whole speculation process here! So many intelligent people trying to figure out what the writers are going to serve up next, although I hope they keep true to their assertion that they love and breathe the original stories, because in His Last Vow, things took a decidedly darker turn. Mr Holmes shooting someone because he cannot thing of a logical alternative and because he cannot bear to see his friend being prettily tortured by the villain, indeed!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think a lot of us are hoping that the Special and Series 4 will take a somewhat less melodramatic turn!

 

[Lady Vengeance]

I'd welcome, rather than tolerate, Mary's death  :P

 

I wouldn't like Mycroft to die but I have an inkling that it might end up happening.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I wouldn't like Mycroft to die but I have an inkling that it might end up happening.

 

May I ask why? I mean, he's played by one of the writers - why would Mark Gatiss write his own character out?

 

Besides, Mycroft's death would have too little emotional impact. I guess one could use it as a sort of super-redshirting - if a villain can take the big brother out, he must be really, really powerful and dangerous. But I think Mycroft is more likely to die of a heart attack one day in the very far future and we'll never know about it.

 

 

 

[Lady Vengeance]

 

 

I wouldn't like Mycroft to die but I have an inkling that it might end up happening.

 

May I ask why? I mean, he's played by one of the writers - why would Mark Gatiss write his own character out?

 

Besides, Mycroft's death would have too little emotional impact. I guess one could use it as a sort of super-redshirting - if a villain can take the big brother out, he must be really, really powerful and dangerous. But I think Mycroft is more likely to die of a heart attack one day in the very far future and we'll never know about it.

 

 

Because of the nature of the character: he's morally compromised owing to his job, having to "do business" with criminals like Moriarty or bad guys like Magnussen, which is rather dangerous and shady. Good set-up for tragedy.

 

And because maybe his death would help Sherlock (and us, although I already presuppose he loves him very much) find out what his real feelings for him are/were. 

 

As I say, I don't want him dead. If anything, I'd love to see a lot more of him in S4 and S5, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was murdered.

[sittything]

If Mycroft dies I'm gonna riot.

[T.o.b.y]

I really don't think you have anything to worry about... This is not Game of Thrones, after all. Heck, not even the villains seem to really die!

[sittything]

Yeah, I'm not too overly concerned.    He doesn't die in canon, so I'm assuming he won't here either.

[Mollock]

I don't want any of them to die. But I feel that someone will this upcoming season and I can't help but think it will be Molly. Get back to that later. Each and every character literally adds to Sherlocks character. His behaviour around all the characters is very telling of who is. On surface it seems like he treats everyone the same way, but if you really look at him, his relationship with each character is very different. Deep down he loves them all ,although I think him and Donovan will never get along.

 

I will seriously be devastated if Molly dies. I totally ship Sherlock and Molly even though it is very improbable. I cant help but wonder, what Sherlock would do if she actually does die. How would he react to it and deal with her loss. He has come to a point where he does care for her a lot. Would he ever be able to tell her what he feels for her, how much he is actually fond of her despite the fact that he is very incapable of expressing emotions. Other than Molly if anything happens to Mycroft, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson I don't know what I will do... But yea I will bawl my eyes out. That's for sure.

[joanneta1]

When Mr Moffat mentioned 'consequences', he didn't specifically mention anyone's demise, although I am firmly against the survival of Mary, especially if they manage it so that she dies before giving birth. I want a good old-fashioned pairing of Sherlock and John against the rest of the world, not a sitcom of a detective's ever growing family. Actually, I found a meta on Ao3 by Tammany called Dramatic Through-Lines and Narrative Spines which kept me awake half the night trying to finish it.

[jesskayding]

I don't want any of them to die. But I feel that someone will this upcoming season and I can't help but think it will be Molly. Get back to that later. Each and every character literally adds to Sherlocks character. His behaviour around all the characters is very telling of who is. On surface it seems like he treats everyone the same way, but if you really look at him, his relationship with each character is very different. Deep down he loves them all ,although I think him and Donovan will never get along.

 

I will seriously be devastated if Molly dies. I totally ship Sherlock and Molly even though it is very improbable. I cant help but wonder, what Sherlock would do if she actually does die. How would he react to it and deal with her loss. He has come to a point where he does care for her a lot. Would he ever be able to tell her what he feels for her, how much he is actually fond of her despite the fact that he is very incapable of expressing emotions. Other than Molly if anything happens to Mycroft, Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson I don't know what I will do... But yea I will bawl my eyes out. That's for sure.

 

 

I would love it if Molly dies. I'd be absolutely ECSTATIC!!! Die Molly Die! I don't even want her to be transferred anywhere. I don't even want her to move away to a different country or continent per they may have her come back. I want her to die. I don't even want her to appear in dream sequences after death. Just kill her off already, I really hope that is the heartbreak they are talking about. Take me to that dark place... I welcome it. 

[Shadow Dweller]

Are you really want a darker storyline or are you merely fishing for reaction, knowing that many people here have soft spot for Molly? lol

[jesskayding]

Are you really want a darker storyline or are you merely fishing for reaction, knowing that many people here have soft spot for Molly? lol

 

 

Hello Shadow Dweller... You are not familiar with me because I took like an 8 month break, but for users of this forum who have been around for awhile are very much aware of my disdain for Molly? Can't stand her character, her behavior is so weak... they tried to make her character stronger by having her slap Sherlock like a billion times in Season 3, but then I came to despise her even more. She still dresses and carries herself like a complete slob.