Molly Hooper

[Arcadia]

Brought over from another thread:
 

I remembered what I was going to say about Molly, I find the 'I love you' scene really weird because it seems out of place. In the first two seasons I could believe Molly might have thought she was in love with Sherlock, though really I think it was more infatuation than love, but from TEH onwards she seems to have gotten over that. She no longer fawns over him, she seems to see him as a real and flawed man, and it allows their friendship to grow and deepen. I got the impression she was still fond of him, thought he was sexy, and yea probably would date him if he ever asked but in allowing herself to see his real personality without rose tinted goggles she was no longer in love with him. I liked that, it felt like they had both grown as people and become closer as a result, and now out of the blue we learn that apparently she is still in love with him. The whole debate of what is love and how it ties into this series has been flogged to death, and I disagree with most of it, but having Molly saying that she can't say she loves him because it's true does feel like a step backwards for her. I don't share the feminist view point that it exploits her or belittles her I just think it's out of place when the evidence we've been shown seems to say she's over all that. Feeling unrequited love for a friend for as long as the series has been running seems a bit unrealistic to me - how many years has it been in show time? Hard to say since we don't know how long is meant to occur between episodes, but it's been quite a few years.

 
That's interesting, because I remember some of us, after S3, thought that Molly had gotten over her crush during Sherlock's post-Reichenbach absence, but that she well and truly fell in love with him during the wedding. Although maybe we were just projecting ourselves onto her. :D
 
I like to think she's accepted she's never going to have him, that the best she can achieve with him is friendship. But since Tom didn't work out, and now this ... she's in limbo now, as far as I'm concerned. Which I don't like.

[gerry]

Molly never got over Sherlock. Even in TEH, after he thanked her and said he was glad she was happy with a non sociopath, she muttered to herself that maybe that was her type. To me, her feelings have evolved as they have become closer friends but the feelings hadn't diminished so I didn't see a step back for her in TFP, just an admission of the obvious. She said as much to Sherlock. The only surprise to me in the ILY scene was Sherlock's emotional response. He's never been shown that emotional, not even about Irene.

 

I'm not sure she's accepted she's never going to have him. If that were true she'd be willing and able to truly be with someone else in a real relationship. She hasn't shown that ability yet and if the show isn't willing to have Sherlock in a relationship, then I really hope they do have Molly move on because at some point in real life a person in Molly's position wouldn't still be friends with the person that doesn't reciprocate.

[Surelock]

Brought over from another thread:

 

I remembered what I was going to say about Molly, I find the 'I love you' scene really weird because it seems out of place. In the first two seasons I could believe Molly might have thought she was in love with Sherlock, though really I think it was more infatuation than love, but from TEH onwards she seems to have gotten over that. She no longer fawns over him, she seems to see him as a real and flawed man, and it allows their friendship to grow and deepen. I got the impression she was still fond of him, thought he was sexy, and yea probably would date him if he ever asked but in allowing herself to see his real personality without rose tinted goggles she was no longer in love with him. I liked that, it felt like they had both grown as people and become closer as a result, and now out of the blue we learn that apparently she is still in love with him. The whole debate of what is love and how it ties into this series has been flogged to death, and I disagree with most of it, but having Molly saying that she can't say she loves him because it's true does feel like a step backwards for her. I don't share the feminist view point that it exploits her or belittles her I just think it's out of place when the evidence we've been shown seems to say she's over all that. Feeling unrequited love for a friend for as long as the series has been running seems a bit unrealistic to me - how many years has it been in show time? Hard to say since we don't know how long is meant to occur between episodes, but it's been quite a few years.

 

That's interesting, because I remember some of us, after S3, thought that Molly had gotten over her crush during Sherlock's post-Reichenbach absence, but that she well and truly fell in love with him during the wedding. Although maybe we were just projecting ourselves onto her. :D

 

I like to think she's accepted she's never going to have him, that the best she can achieve with him is friendship. But since Tom didn't work out, and now this ... she's in limbo now, as far as I'm concerned. Which I don't like.

 

Didn't Molly just use Tom as a substitute for Sherlock? Tom is quite similar to Sherlock in terms of appearance but lacks his brain power.

 

I guess Molly just dated Tom during Sherlock 2 year absence to fill in the void of not seeing Sherlock anymore. However when Sherlock returned Molly could no longer hold her interest in Tom so she decided to break up with him.

 

 

 

Also I've always had a gut feeling that Moffatiss were going to have Sherlock get together with Molly at the definitive end of the series. The reason for this is because it looks like Moffatiss have always used Sherlock's relationship with Molly to act as a metaphor for how human Sherlock is. In a way all of Sherlock's scenes with Molly somehow relate to how human he is.

 

Since Moffatiss want to humanise Sherlock then I think it would be fitting for them to end the series by having Sherlock get together with Molly. Now I don't think Moffatiss ever expect to explore a relationship between Sherlock and Molly. I just expect them to put an epilogue at the end where Sherlock is with Molly. I don't expect it to be well written or anything (Personally I don't think Moffatiss would be good at writing romance). I just expect it to be there.

[Arcadia]

I'm not sure she's accepted she's never going to have him. If that were true she'd be willing and able to truly be with someone else in a real relationship. She hasn't shown that ability yet and if the show isn't willing to have Sherlock in a relationship, then I really hope they do have Molly move on because at some point in real life a person in Molly's position wouldn't still be friends with the person that doesn't reciprocate.

 

Sherlock did say to her that they were friends, though. He offered her that much.

 

I like to imagine she is willing to be with someone else ... it's just hard to find someone, especially if (and I don't know that she is) one is clinging to an ideal. And oddly enough, I have a hard time imagining her with someone who is "ordinary." Maybe because she's so clearly drawn to the exotic.

[Artemis]

Didn't Molly just use Tom as a substitute for Sherlock? Tom is quite similar to Sherlock in terms of appearance but lacks his brain power.

 

Ooooooooohhh, so that's why Sherlock reacted so strangely when they met!  For the life of me I could not figure out what was wrong with him!  They don't look alike to me, so I had no idea what everyone was "noticing".

 

 

[kimber8ada]

Brought over from another thread:

 

I remembered what I was going to say about Molly, I find the 'I love you' scene really weird because it seems out of place. In the first two seasons I could believe Molly might have thought she was in love with Sherlock, though really I think it was more infatuation than love, but from TEH onwards she seems to have gotten over that. She no longer fawns over him, she seems to see him as a real and flawed man, and it allows their friendship to grow and deepen. I got the impression she was still fond of him, thought he was sexy, and yea probably would date him if he ever asked but in allowing herself to see his real personality without rose tinted goggles she was no longer in love with him. I liked that, it felt like they had both grown as people and become closer as a result, and now out of the blue we learn that apparently she is still in love with him. The whole debate of what is love and how it ties into this series has been flogged to death, and I disagree with most of it, but having Molly saying that she can't say she loves him because it's true does feel like a step backwards for her. I don't share the feminist view point that it exploits her or belittles her I just think it's out of place when the evidence we've been shown seems to say she's over all that. Feeling unrequited love for a friend for as long as the series has been running seems a bit unrealistic to me - how many years has it been in show time? Hard to say since we don't know how long is meant to occur between episodes, but it's been quite a few years.

That's interesting, because I remember some of us, after S3, thought that Molly had gotten over her crush during Sherlock's post-Reichenbach absence, but that she well and truly fell in love with him during the wedding. Although maybe we were just projecting ourselves onto her. :D

 

I like to think she's accepted she's never going to have him, that the best she can achieve with him is friendship. But since Tom didn't work out, and now this ... she's in limbo now, as far as I'm concerned. Which I don't like.

 

I agree with this up to a point. I think Molly did have a crush on Sherlock in the first two seasons, at least up to the fall. He was handsome, dramatic and brilliant so why wouldn't she? But in TRF when he comes to her needing, wanting her help she sees a whole different side to him. She sees he has matured and sees the lengths he is willing to go to for his friends. I think that's when she realizes her feelings for him are much deeper and she's fallen in love with him.

 

These feelings continue into season three even though she tried to move on with Tom. In TSOT she watched him intently as he played the violin and she was the only one who noticed when he left the reception. The depth of her feelings were shown again in her hurt and anger at his drug use in HLV.

 

Which brings us to season four and TFP. I understand her reluctance to say ILY to Sherlock. He's practical about it and says if it's true then just say it. But she's come to terms with her feelings and with the fact that he doesn't feel the same so actually telling him she loves him finally puts it out there and she has to deal with the reality of it all over again. Plus now that he knows definitely how she feels just compounds her heartache, not to mention that she doesn't realize she has an audience.

 

So in closing this long-winded post I believe there is a very real possibility of a relationship between these two, especially given Sherlock's more emotional repeat of ILY. He didn't have to say it twice, now did he?

 

The big question, apart from when or if there will be another season, is if Moftiss will go there. I really don't think they will but I think they've laid the groundwork for it and could do it.

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

Goodnight.

 

Kimberly

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

Didn't Molly just use Tom as a substitute for Sherlock? Tom is quite similar to Sherlock in terms of appearance but lacks his brain power.

 

Ooooooooohhh, so that's why Sherlock reacted so strangely when they met!  For the life of me I could not figure out what was wrong with him!  They don't look alike to me, so I had no idea what everyone was "noticing".

I don't think they really look alike either, but they are the same physical type -- tall, thin, unruly dark hair. There's been some debate as to whether they wear similar clothing because Tom dresses that way too, or because Molly influenced his clothing choices (and if so, did she realize what she was doing?).

[Artemis]

I don't think they really look alike either, but they are the same physical type -- tall, thin, unruly dark hair. There's been some debate as to whether they wear similar clothing because Tom dresses that way too, or because Molly influenced his clothing choices (and if so, did she realize what she was doing?).

 

The clothing went over my head too, lol.  I've seen other people dress that way in formal or "business casual" settings, so it didn't strike me as something uniquely Sherlock being mimicked.  I just thought he was a standard dude dressing standard nice, lol.  The way he ties his scarf didn't stand out either, it's not unusual for me to see someone wear their scarf like that.

 

Also, about the hair, Tom's appears lighter to me than Sherlock's, so I missed the resemblance, other than the fact that it's curly.

 

I'm so glad I understand what's going on in that scene now though, lol.  Now I get the awkward glances when Molly says she's moved on.  When I watched it the first time I was annoyed that they didn't seem to believe her.  :P

 

 

[Artemis]

So, question for you all about the "I Love You" scene in TFP: Why did Molly ignore Sherlock's first phone call?

 

Was she still angry about his drug use in TLD?  Felt like he was only calling to use her for something?  Just too painful to speak to someone she was still in unrequited love with?

 

 

[bedelia1984]

 

I'm not sure she's accepted she's never going to have him. If that were true she'd be willing and able to truly be with someone else in a real relationship. She hasn't shown that ability yet and if the show isn't willing to have Sherlock in a relationship, then I really hope they do have Molly move on because at some point in real life a person in Molly's position wouldn't still be friends with the person that doesn't reciprocate.

 

Sherlock did say to her that they were friends, though. He offered her that much.

 

I like to imagine she is willing to be with someone else ... it's just hard to find someone, especially if (and I don't know that she is) one is clinging to an ideal. And oddly enough, I have a hard time imagining her with someone who is "ordinary." Maybe because she's so clearly drawn to the exotic.

 

 

I think that also, Sherlock did some things, perhaps not deliberately, that drew her back in, around the time of TEH- There was the asking her to solve crimes with him, and asking her out for chips, and the fact that he showed some understanding of how she had felt, with the 'sociopaths' line- because he described that as the problem between them, when they both know that in fact he really isn't a sociopath, and then the kiss on the cheek. I don't think he's deliberately stringing her along, or anything, but he acts as if he's missed her whilst he's been away, and you can see how hard it is for her to resist that.

 

 

Didn't Molly just use Tom as a substitute for Sherlock? Tom is quite similar to Sherlock in terms of appearance but lacks his brain power.

 

Ooooooooohhh, so that's why Sherlock reacted so strangely when they met!  For the life of me I could not figure out what was wrong with him!  They don't look alike to me, so I had no idea what everyone was "noticing".

 

 

Yes and this was the actor they originally hired to play Sherlock's body double corpse, right? Or did I imagine that. But they are so not alike, not really.

 

 

....So in closing this long-winded post I believe there is a very real possibility of a relationship between these two, especially given Sherlock's more emotional repeat of ILY. He didn't have to say it twice, now did he?

 

The big question, apart from when or if there will be another season, is if Moftiss will go there. I really don't think they will but I think they've laid the groundwork for it and could do it.

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

Goodnight.

 

Kimberly

 

 

I hate to say it, but part of me things the best way to do it is have a few vague hints and show absolutely nothing more. Because, I don't think the writers would do well with the follow- through on the story. If they make the relationship into some kind of arc, then they will have to make something dramatic happen within it, like Sherlock goes back on drugs, or whatever and Molly might have to leave the show. I'm pretty happy with how the writers have done the story up till now actually.

[Artemis]

Yes and this was the actor they originally hired to play Sherlock's body double corpse, right? Or did I imagine that. But they are so not alike, not really.

 

Did they?  I just figured Benedict Cumberbatch was playing his own body double.  The image of his corpse isn't all that clear anyway, I'm not sure how it makes sense to hire another actor for that.

 

 

[gerry]

So, question for you all about the "I Love You" scene in TFP: Why did Molly ignore Sherlock's first phone call?

 

Was she still angry about his drug use in TLD? Felt like he was only calling to use her for something? Just too painful to speak to someone she was still in unrequited love with?

I'm not sure there was any more meaning in her not answering the first time other than the writers wanting to build the dramatic tension and eating up some of the 3 minutes.

[Arcadia]

So, question for you all about the "I Love You" scene in TFP: Why did Molly ignore Sherlock's first phone call?

 

Was she still angry about his drug use in TLD?  Felt like he was only calling to use her for something?  Just too painful to speak to someone she was still in unrequited love with?

 

She was looking upset even before he called, and when she did answer, she said she was having a bad day. So it's not necessarily Sherlock related. One fanfic I read speculated that her cat had just died; that would do it for me! So I think you're last suggestion may be closest to the truth.

 

 

Yes and this was the actor they originally hired to play Sherlock's body double corpse, right? Or did I imagine that. But they are so not alike, not really.

 

Did they?  I just figured Benedict Cumberbatch was playing his own body double.  The image of his corpse isn't all that clear anyway, I'm not sure how it makes sense to hire another actor for that.

If I remember correctly, he was hired to play BC's double (as a waiter) in the restaurant scene at the beginning of TEH. But then they restructured the scene, or something, and didn't need him.

[bedelia1984]

So, question for you all about the "I Love You" scene in TFP: Why did Molly ignore Sherlock's first phone call?

 

Was she still angry about his drug use in TLD?  Felt like he was only calling to use her for something?  Just too painful to speak to someone she was still in unrequited love with?

 

About this: even though Molly gets some flack for never moving on from Sherlock, I think you can see here that she isn't really at his beck and call any more.

 

I thought it was interesting that Sherlock was puzzled at her behaviour, still thinking that she would jump to pick up a call from him. It's a bit like what John was saying to him TLD, that you have a moment where you can have a relationship with someone else, and then that moment is gone- but I'm not sure he ever thought of Molly in those terms. To a degree I think he's been taking her for granted. Which was what was nice about the ILY scene- there is something about what Eurus does that shakes him out of a complacency he has about Molly.

 

Then again, we had so few scenes with them I really don't know what sort of friendship they have now- but we see Molly in a caretaker role a bit too often, I think. it's not that there is anything wrong with her babysitting or looking after Sherlock when he's detoxing, per se, but because we see very little else of how she relates to John and Sherlock, it comes across like she's only there to serve their needs. I wouldn't be taking his calls either, frankly, if that was how things stood.

 

I really like the scene in TSOT where Sherlock comes to Molly for advice on the stag night- mostly because there was no need for him to go to her, so it shows a kind of friendship that transcends whatever has happened with Tom etc, and you can still see they have a bit of a rapport where they can enjoy each other's company, and even have a bit of a laugh (like in TEH with that train car/carriages interview). But I don't think we got anything like that this season? I don't think they even exchanged one smile? (unless she was smiling at him in the montage). This season was just so dark  :(

[gerry]

I just expect them to put an epilogue at the end where Sherlock is with Molly. I don't expect it to be well written or anything (Personally I don't think Moffatiss would be good at writing romance). I just expect it to be there.

And the montage at the end of TFP is supposed to meet this objective? If so, you're right that really wasn't well written. Given Moffat's quotes about Molly and the lack of resolution to the ILY scene, it's probably more likely they just didn't give Molly much thought.

[gerry]

 

 

I'm not sure she's accepted she's never going to have him. If that were true she'd be willing and able to truly be with someone else in a real relationship. She hasn't shown that ability yet and if the show isn't willing to have Sherlock in a relationship, then I really hope they do have Molly move on because at some point in real life a person in Molly's position wouldn't still be friends with the person that doesn't reciprocate.

Sherlock did say to her that they were friends, though. He offered her that much.

 

I like to imagine she is willing to be with someone else ... it's just hard to find someone, especially if (and I don't know that she is) one is clinging to an ideal. And oddly enough, I have a hard time imagining her with someone who is "ordinary." Maybe because she's so clearly drawn to the exotic.

Sometimes I've wondered how and when she and Sherlock met and what had happened in Molly's romantic life that would make her so open to a man like him because the way he treated her at the beginning of the series wouldn't make most women infatuated. I know this show wouldn't do backstory for secondary characters but I think it would help understand why Molly's feelings for Sherlock are as strong as they are.

[gerry]

If they make the relationship into some kind of arc, then they will have to make something dramatic happen within it, like Sherlock goes back on drugs, or whatever and Molly might have to leave the show. I'm pretty happy with how the writers have done the story up till now actually.

For Molly to stay on the show, doesn't she have to either get over Sherlock or be in a relationship arc? I mean haven't they gotten all they can get out of the unrequited love arc?

[bedelia1984]

 

If they make the relationship into some kind of arc, then they will have to make something dramatic happen within it, like Sherlock goes back on drugs, or whatever and Molly might have to leave the show. I'm pretty happy with how the writers have done the story up till now actually.

For Molly to stay on the show, doesn't she have to either get over Sherlock or be in a relationship arc? I mean haven't they gotten all they can get out of the unrequited love arc?

 

 

What I mean is, if they have some hints that they may be involved, but the show never tackles it head on? Which I mostly want because then they can't mess it up. I believe Moffat could write a romantic storyline, and even that part of him wants to do it, as much as he also goes on about Irene Adler. But I think he would also fear changing the show too much, and that's a valid fear. It's the way I feel about their Mary story actually- she would have been better off in the background- too much in the foreground with a contentious issue (which Sherlock/Molly would be) and people get sick of it, and also it is very likely to get killed off very quick because it can't stay in the foreground forever.

 

I kind of like the idea of the characters having a secret life that we don't know about, too.

 

In one way, that might sound mad, because the show is about Sherlock, and obviously if he has some kind of romantic relationship, people would want to know about it. But I see the show as being mostly about Sherlock as a detective- and the aspects of his personality that affect that. It's never going to be a romantic show, that wouldn't suit at all, and it would disappoint a lot of people that come to it for the cases and the adventure. Sherlock seems like the kind of guy that would keep his private life private, and I don't feel the need to know all the details about him either. If I don't know whether he has a romantic relationship he keeps to himself or not, that wouldn't really change how I view him.

 

It could suit to have little moments that may be romantic, where the story calls for it. The other drawback of my point of view is that they would probably still show very little Molly. In fact, I suspected that was what happened in season 4, they want to keep their relationship hidden, so we see less, which is a shame as I like her character a lot. Moftiss are always writing themselves into corners like this.

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good. 

[Arcadia]

About this: even though Molly gets some flack for never moving on from Sherlock, I think you can see here that she isn't really at his beck and call any more.

 

I thought it was interesting that Sherlock was puzzled at her behaviour, still thinking that she would jump to pick up a call from him. It's a bit like what John was saying to him TLD, that you have a moment where you can have a relationship with someone else, and then that moment is gone- but I'm not sure he ever thought of Molly in those terms. To a degree I think he's been taking her for granted. Which was what was nice about the ILY scene- there is something about what Eurus does that shakes him out of a complacency he has about Molly.

 

Then again, we had so few scenes with them I really don't know what sort of friendship they have now- but we see Molly in a caretaker role a bit too often, I think. it's not that there is anything wrong with her babysitting or looking after Sherlock when he's detoxing, per se, but because we see very little else of how she relates to John and Sherlock, it comes across like she's only there to serve their needs. I wouldn't be taking his calls either, frankly, if that was how things stood.

 

I really like the scene in TSOT where Sherlock comes to Molly for advice on the stag night- mostly because there was no need for him to go to her, so it shows a kind of friendship that transcends whatever has happened with Tom etc, and you can still see they have a bit of a rapport where they can enjoy each other's company, and even have a bit of a laugh (like in TEH with that train car/carriages interview). But I don't think we got anything like that this season? I don't think they even exchanged one smile? (unless she was smiling at him in the montage). This season was just so dark  :(

 

 

Sometimes I've wondered how and when she and Sherlock met and what had happened in Molly's romantic life that would make her so open to a man like him because the way he treated her at the beginning of the series wouldn't make most women infatuated. I know this show wouldn't do backstory for secondary characters but I think it would help understand why Molly's feelings for Sherlock are as strong as they are.

 

Oh, I don't know. I've always identified with Molly; socially awkward, nervous around men I find attractive, not much interested in my appearance, educated, dorky ... and I get her attraction to him instantly. :D He's different, he's smart, he's gorgeous, he's intelligent, THAT VOICE, that mind, that figure, that intellect, those eyes, those brains... what's not to like!

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good.

And all too often I think they were just throwing a sop to the Sherlolly fans. :(

[Surelock]

 

I just expect them to put an epilogue at the end where Sherlock is with Molly. I don't expect it to be well written or anything (Personally I don't think Moffatiss would be good at writing romance). I just expect it to be there.

And the montage at the end of TFP is supposed to meet this objective? If so, you're right that really wasn't well written. Given Moffat's quotes about Molly and the lack of resolution to the ILY scene, it's probably more likely they just didn't give Molly much thought.

 

 

Not necessarily that. If there's a 5th season which will be stated to be the final season then I can see Moffatiss doing something more.

 

 

If they make the relationship into some kind of arc, then they will have to make something dramatic happen within it, like Sherlock goes back on drugs, or whatever and Molly might have to leave the show. I'm pretty happy with how the writers have done the story up till now actually.

For Molly to stay on the show, doesn't she have to either get over Sherlock or be in a relationship arc? I mean haven't they gotten all they can get out of the unrequited love arc?

 

 

Let's be honest. Molly doesn't really have a role in the series beyond her romantic interest in Sherlock.

 

Molly is a metaphor for all the ladies that watch Sherlock because they think that Benedict Cumberbatch is hot. That's why Molly has to always be in love with Sherlock and have such an unexplored personality. The latter allows all the female viewers to project themselves into her so they can fulfill their fantasies of being in love with Sherlock and actually working with him at the same time.

 

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good. 

 

 

Considering the original scene was different and was rewritten at the last minute, I think they just pandered to fan service with that scene. I also think being rewritten at the last minute is why that scene never paid off.

[bedelia1984]

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good.

And all too often I think they were just throwing a sop to the Sherlolly fans. :(

 

 

If they were, they could have given us a more consoling sop!

 

I'm available if they want advice on the next one... like Sherlock has to kiss Molly or the villain will blow up Scotland Yard... or they have to go on a romantic holiday to Paris or else an assassin will take out poor Mrs Hudson... or they have to spend the rest of their lives together or else the puppy gets it...

 

 

 

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good. 

 

 

Considering the original scene was different and was rewritten at the last minute, I think they just pandered to fan service with that scene. I also think being rewritten at the last minute is why that scene never paid off.

 

 

I had been assuming that when they said they re-wrote it, it was just in the sense that they made the coffin more hypothetical, rather than Molly actually being in one? But do you think they changed the whole spirit of the scene at the last minute? That seems really risky in such a big episode, and when they've presumably put a bit of planning into what they were doing with Molly this season. 

[gerry]

 

 

 

If they make the relationship into some kind of arc, then they will have to make something dramatic happen within it, like Sherlock goes back on drugs, or whatever and Molly might have to leave the show. I'm pretty happy with how the writers have done the story up till now actually.

For Molly to stay on the show, doesn't she have to either get over Sherlock or be in a relationship arc? I mean haven't they gotten all they can get out of the unrequited love arc?

Let's be honest. Molly doesn't really have a role in the series beyond her romantic interest in Sherlock.

 

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good.

 

Considering the original scene was different and was rewritten at the last minute, I think they just pandered to fan service with that scene. I also think being rewritten at the last minute is why that scene never paid off.

I agree that Molly's role in the show is to portray romantic interest but that's my point, hasn't that run its course? How many more seasons do they think they can get out of that? Season 4 was emblematic of that, like they got bored with that route so you saw much less of her since they have not yet bothered to flesh her out more.

 

Well according to Moffat, the entire production team didn't like the original Molly scene so I'm not sure that it was fan service they were pandering to but the show itself. I also doubt that the lack of payoff was because of how it was written since the original Molly scene didn't have a resolution either apparently. The truth is that Moffat likely just doesn't value the Molly/Sherlock relationship that much so he doesn't write for it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

 

Yes and this was the actor they originally hired to play Sherlock's body double corpse, right? Or did I imagine that. But they are so not alike, not really.

 

Did they? I just figured Benedict Cumberbatch was playing his own body double. The image of his corpse isn't all that clear anyway, I'm not sure how it makes sense to hire another actor for that.

If I remember correctly, he was hired to play BC's double (as a waiter) in the restaurant scene at the beginning of TEH. But then they restructured the scene, or something, and didn't need him.

I'm pretty sure that the lookalike corpse was played by BC's stunt double. Don't think I've ever heard that verified, but that's who it looked like to me (on a pretty good-sized TV). Plus it would have made sense to use a guy that was already right there.

 

And (which I *have* seen/heard officially stated) in an earlier version of the TEH script, the waiter wasn't Sherlock, he was somebody who kinda looked like Sherlock. By the time they rewrote that, they'd already hired Ed Birch for the role -- which made it real easy to find someone to play Tom.

[Redbeard]

 

 

I'm available if they want advice on the next one... like Sherlock has to kiss Molly or the villain will blow up Scotland Yard... or they have to go on a romantic holiday to Paris or else an assassin will take out poor Mrs Hudson... or they have to spend the rest of their lives together or else the puppy gets it...

 

 

Yeah poor Molly, why do her big moments with Sherlock always have to be fake lol.  The "I love you" was fake (or was it?  ;) ), and then that kiss she got after the Reichenbach Fall was super hot...but not actually real either (or was it? ;) )  lol.   Next time'll be the charm, right?

[Surelock]

 

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good.

And all too often I think they were just throwing a sop to the Sherlolly fans. :(

 

 

If they were, they could have given us a more consoling sop!

 

I'm available if they want advice on the next one... like Sherlock has to kiss Molly or the villain will blow up Scotland Yard... or they have to go on a romantic holiday to Paris or else an assassin will take out poor Mrs Hudson... or they have to spend the rest of their lives together or else the puppy gets it...

 

 

 

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good. 

 

 

Considering the original scene was different and was rewritten at the last minute, I think they just pandered to fan service with that scene. I also think being rewritten at the last minute is why that scene never paid off.

 

 

I had been assuming that when they said they re-wrote it, it was just in the sense that they made the coffin more hypothetical, rather than Molly actually being in one? But do you think they changed the whole spirit of the scene at the last minute? That seems really risky in such a big episode, and when they've presumably put a bit of planning into what they were doing with Molly this season. 

 

 

I strongly suspect that the Molly scene was rewritten at the last minute and that's precisely why the whole 'I love you' scene never amount to anything.

 

Originally the Molly scene involved Sherlock having to solve a puzzle to save Molly in a coffin. There was no 'I love you' or anything. If all Sherlock did was save Molly then it would make sense for Molly to be all happy in the epilogue while visiting Sherlock's flat.

 

However if Moffatiss decided to replace that scene in the last minute with the 'I love you' scene then it makes sense for the latter to lead nowhere. I mean they probably didn't have time to insert extra scenes that could add a resolution to that situation. So they just went with Molly smiling in the epilogue although that doesn't make sense with the 'I love you scene'.

 

 

 

 

If they make the relationship into some kind of arc, then they will have to make something dramatic happen within it, like Sherlock goes back on drugs, or whatever and Molly might have to leave the show. I'm pretty happy with how the writers have done the story up till now actually.

For Molly to stay on the show, doesn't she have to either get over Sherlock or be in a relationship arc? I mean haven't they gotten all they can get out of the unrequited love arc?

Let's be honest. Molly doesn't really have a role in the series beyond her romantic interest in Sherlock.

 

Sometimes I think that they wrote TFP the way they did because they really just wanted an excuse for Sherlock to say ILY to her onscreen, because it reflected what they see as his real inner life, and they wanted to show a small glimpse of that before potentially leaving his character behind for good.

Considering the original scene was different and was rewritten at the last minute, I think they just pandered to fan service with that scene. I also think being rewritten at the last minute is why that scene never paid off.

I agree that Molly's role in the show is to portray romantic interest but that's my point, hasn't that run its course? How many more seasons do they think they can get out of that? Season 4 was emblematic of that, like they got bored with that route so you saw much less of her since they have not yet bothered to flesh her out more.

 

Well according to Moffat, the entire production team didn't like the original Molly scene so I'm not sure that it was fan service they were pandering to but the show itself. I also doubt that the lack of payoff was because of how it was written since the original Molly scene didn't have a resolution either apparently. The truth is that Moffat likely just doesn't value the Molly/Sherlock relationship that much so he doesn't write for it.

 

The original Molly scene fit better with how Molly was portrayed in the epilogue being all happy at Sherlock's flat. If all Sherlock did earlier was rescue her from a coffin then her actions at the end make sense. There was originally no confession or anything. It was just a simple rescue scene.

 

Also, other than a love interest, I don't see Molly having any other role in the series other than perhaps acting as a mother figure for Rosie.