Mycroft Holmes

[Surelock]

Eurus could very reasonably have asked Mycroft how he expected her to get a live video feed from an airplane. It would have been a piece of cake to get a hook-up to Molly's place when they were (supposedly) planting the explosives. I think I could do that. But it sounds far more difficult to tap into whatever might be transmitted from a plane in flight.

 

Well Euros could get everyone on the plane to fall asleep except for one little girl. How did Euros do that? If I were Mycroft, I'd think that she had some sort of accomplice on the plane.

[Pseudonym]

The beginning of the plane scene, when the phone rings and it's Jim, is that meant to be him breaking through to Eurus? Like she's so high above everyone, but he manages to reach her, just briefly?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well Euros could get everyone on the plane to fall asleep except for one little girl. How did Euros do that? If I were Mycroft, I'd think that she had some sort of accomplice on the plane.

True -- though I wouldn't care to be that accomplice if the plane is about to crash -- or they could have bugged and otherwise "equipped" the plane before it took off. The main difference between that and dealing with Molly's place would be airport security, but that could presumably be managed, especially since they presumably didn't want to put any bombs on board.

[bedelia1984]

 

 ...

Oddly enough, even though I thought the girl on the plane scenario was unrealistic, it didn't occur to me to think it was unreal. On the other hand, it was clear to me that eventually Eurus would tell Sherlock to shoot the other two, and that his solution would be to shoot himself instead. To me it was so obvious, I couldn't believe Eurus wouldn't have realized it herself. Although she must have anticipated something could go wrong, or why have the tranq darts installed? But if she did anticipate Sherlock's solution, then why did she sound panicky when Sherlock threatened to kill himself? The ultimate goal was to get him and John to Musgrave so she could put John in the well, right? So what did she hope to achieve with the "games" in Sherrinford, anyway? I have trouble seeing any connection between the "games" and the puzzle in the graveyard. It just seems rather random, to me. But she IS crazy, I think, so maybe her actions are supposed to make sense? Urgh.

 

 

Even though I agree the logic of Eurus's behaviour in all this is flawed in the episode (like, I don't think the writers sat down for each scene and thought about her motivation. Rather, it seems as if they thought what points of Sherlock's character and relationships they wanted to push and pull at, and then had her behaviour fit), it could in some way make sense that Eurus' objective was to have Sherlock kill Mycroft (in revenge for her longterm captivity/ isolation, which has possibly made her hate him in a special way we have yet to really uncover), then have Watson die, and finally she will keep Sherlock somehow contained as the brother she always wanted.

[Shadow Dweller]

I believe that way of thinking on Eurus's part is called, 'Projection' and therefore a fatal mistake commonly done by people who doesn't bother to study the target's mindset first.

[gerry]

Eurus could very reasonably have asked Mycroft how he expected her to get a live video feed from an airplane. It would have been a piece of cake to get a hook-up to Molly's place when they were (supposedly) planting the explosives. I think I could do that. But it sounds far more difficult to tap into whatever might be transmitted from a plane in flight.

Why? There is WIFI in planes now. If you can surf the web on a plane why can't you FaceTime? It should definitely be possible especially if she was claiming responsibility for why all the people on the plane were unconscious or dead and had it all planned out.

 

Mycroft had plenty to doubt and question Eurus about the plane and how it was possible.

[Redbeard]

I think that even if Mycroft or Sherlock had an inkling that the girl on the plane situation wasn't real, they would have still talked it out as though it were...just in case.  Since a visual in the ads for the episode included a chess board, I look at it like that too.  They are always trying to think 3 moves ahead of Eurus but at the same time they can't show their hand too obviously.  They could have very well thought the situation was false (there is no ghostly airplane rocketing toward London) but that the girl actually was real (Eurus has some little girl locked in a room somewhere reading a script and if we don't play along she might die).  They were dealing with someone crazy and unpredictable,  real people were dying (governer's wife, Garridebs) so why take the chance?  

[gerry]

I could believe they were just playing along but they didn't question her at all so to me they weren't scheming 3 moves ahead but instead just bought what she was selling hook line and sinker.

 

I think they were just going for TGG on steroids, meaning how would Sherlock be affected if the people in danger/challenged were people Sherlock cared about and not complete strangers? Could Sherlock still be rational/solve the puzzle or is he more emotional than he lets on? Of course the intent is the latter.

 

I still wonder if Eurus really did rig Molly's house or if it really was all a bluff to play mind games with Sherlock? Couldn't get a sense for that.

[Redbeard]

The beginning of the plane scene, when the phone rings and it's Jim, is that meant to be him breaking through to Eurus? Like she's so high above everyone, but he manages to reach her, just briefly?

 

Personally, that is how I take it.   He manages to connect with her, wake her up, reach her on a level that that all those brain dead others can't.   I think her contact with Moriarty is what started it all. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Eurus could very reasonably have asked Mycroft how he expected her to get a live video feed from an airplane. It would have been a piece of cake to get a hook-up to Molly's place when they were (supposedly) planting the explosives. I think I could do that. But it sounds far more difficult to tap into whatever might be transmitted from a plane in flight.

Why? There is WIFI in planes now. If you can surf the web on a plane why can't you FaceTime? It should definitely be possible especially if she was claiming responsibility for why all the people on the plane were unconscious or dead and had it all planned out.

 

Anything like that would have to be initiated by the little girl, who may not know how.  Plus, I believe those capabilities are enabled only part of the time.  But as I conceded just a few posts ago, Eurus and her people could easily have bugged the plane while they were tampering with the oxygen or whatever it was they were supposed to have done.

[Surelock]

I think one noticeable feature of the little girl is that when she was talking to Sherlock over the phone, you can't hear any of the background noises that you often hear when calling someone on a plane. Usually you can hear the engine noises etc. However when Sherlock hears the little girl talk, all he hears is her voice. There isn't any sound of any noise in the background.

 

However when we're shown the little girl's perspective, the background noises are present. I guess that's because it's all occurring in Euros' head so she hears noises while other people don't.

 

Why didn't Mycroft or Sherlock pick up this inconsistency?

[Pseudonym]

Oh God, the whole plane idea is so stupid. The more we talk about things in these episodes the more they irritate me.

[J.P.]

I still think they could get the same effect by just letting us hear the girl's voice.

A side note: I don't ever remember a movie where the noise in an airplane is really noticeable. The same with cars. :P

 

Back on track:

it occured to me that Mycroft might be made by Eurus to the same extent as Sherlock. He might have been a more or less normal person emotionally (despite the genius), but after the disaster he sworn to himself never to get attached to anyone or anything to avoid Sherlock's fate. The story about making friends we hear in TEH might as well be an alternative truth.

 

Isn't it crazy, how the show (and the fandom) mirror the situation in the outside world? It's like we were all exposed to some very strange cosmic radiation or the chemtrails finally started to work.

[bedelia1984]

 

...

Isn't it crazy, how the show (and the fandom) mirror the situation in the outside world? It's like we were all exposed to some very strange cosmic radiation or the chemtrails finally started to work.

 

Yes, what I find interesting about season 4 is that even though it was written/ filmed in a time of greater optimism and positivity for world politics, the actual mood of it was more suited to the darker mood of the outside world when the season actually aired. 

[Arcadia]

I remember thinking the same thing, Bedelia. Maybe it had something to do with Brexit? I imagine that got a few people in a dark mood.

[bedelia1984]

Yes, except it didn't officially happen until the summer, after filming. Though, I will guess there was unrest in the lead-up, but I don't know what might have been happening in Britain way back when the scripts were originally written. I have to confess I was one of the naive people who thought Brexit would never happen, but I think season 4 captures something of the cut-throat nature of current world politics- even Eurus and her video surveillance seem about right.

[Surelock]

The beginning of the plane scene, when the phone rings and it's Jim, is that meant to be him breaking through to Eurus? Like she's so high above everyone, but he manages to reach her, just briefly?

 

Actually I think the opening scene of The Final Problem is actually a later scene in the episode. The only exception is that in the opening, this scene is shown from the perspective of Child-Eurus.

 

The 'later scene' I'm referring to is when Euros first informs Sherlock that she has a little girl captive on board the plane while Sherlock and the others are waiting in their cell:

http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/91554.html

 

(The sound of a phone ringing out can be heard. John stands up.)

JOHN: Are we phoning someone?

SHERLOCK: Apparently.

(John looks across the room to the governor.)

JOHN: What’s he doing here?

SHERLOCK: As he is told. (He stops and turns to John.) Eurus is in control.

(The phone connects and a young girl’s distressed voice can be heard over the speakers.)

GIRL (anxiously, tearfully): Help me. Please, I’m on a plane and everyone’s asleep. 

(We cut to the first scene we saw in the episode. The young girl is standing in the middle of the aeroplane’s aisle not far from the flight deck door, holding the phone to her ear.)

GIRL: Help me!

(The lights in the cell go red and Jim’s voice can be heard over the speakers.)

JIM’s VOICE: Hello. My name’s Jim Moriarty. 

(Mycroft sighs heavily.)

JIM’s VOICE: Welcome ... to the final problem.

 

 

The lines that I've bolded above are the exact same lines that we hear in the opening:

http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/91118.html

 

 

GIRL (anxiously, tearfully): Help me, please. I’m on a plane and everyone’s asleep. Help me!

(A very familiar male voice speaks over the phone.)

VOICE: Hello. My name’s Jim Moriarty. Welcome ... to the final problem.

 

 

So I think the opening scene is the same scene in which Sherlock and the others first find out about the little girl on the plane. Except this time we get to see the scene from the perspective of Child-Euros rather than Sherlock and the others.

[Pseudonym]

Ah yes, you're right. *sigh* It's all just so daft.

[Shadow Dweller]

I really have way too much time in my hands today, hence the fanfic-reading marathon. One thing makes me wonder;

 

1. Is sarcasm counts as passive-aggressive technique?

2. Except to Sherlock and Mummy, when and to who Mycroft used that?

[Pseudonym]

Depends on the tone and the point it's making, normally I find sarcasm quite funny but my brother has been known to use it quite nastily at times.

 

I can't think of anyone else I've heard him be sarcastic to. But then we don't know much about his personal life outside of Sherlock.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Now that John has been officially declared "family," some of it may come his way.

 

I hadn't thought of it, but I believe you're right.  He generally acts quite polite and even respectful with other people.  Though of course he did tell Mrs. Hudson to shut up (which is not sarcasm, just not polite either).  I have a feeling that he's been at least borderline sarcastic at John a time or two already, but can't think of any examples just now.

[Pseudonym]

He says a few things that could be taken either way, like when he asks John what it's like living with Sherlock and he says he's never bored, Mycroft's response is 'good, that's good, isn't it?' Which I've always wondered if it was meant to be sarcastic or not. I imagine he gets a bit sarky/bitchy if his staff don't do what he wants. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, I've never known quite how to categorize that "that's good."

 

It just struck me that Mycroft's dental problems in Great Game may have been a reflection of Mark Gatiss's real-life situation.  I mean, why else would they have introduced that plot point?  Well, maybe to justify his texting John (rather than phoning), but I can't think that I would have been puzzled by that, even if there'd been no explanation.  I'm thinking maybe MG was concerned that his face might be swollen or his lip might be numb, so Mycroft's dental work was brought in as a cover.

[Shadow Dweller]

According to stats females made the biggest portion of fanfic writers on this fandom. In RL, passive-aggressive often are their choice of method to communicate displeasure (default mode). I am wondering if their own preference / habit actually shaped the character's or is it actually an aspect that he have but I missed to notice. The case of A Study in Fanfic Writers' Writing Tendency.

[Pseudonym]

Maybe. Though when I write my characters are more aggressive than me, more likely to tell someone to go f*ck themselves whilst I just think it. 

 

Meanwhile...