Mycroft Holmes

[Arcadia]

Hello, first post here (after my présentation, but I don't know if it's been approved yet), dedicated to my favorite <3! What a good idea to have developed this character, with the dynamic of the rivalry between the two brothers! And what a paradoxical character! Sometimes frightening (in spite of Watson's reaction in the pilot), sometimes childish, sometimes protective...and what an actor for him! I haven't seen all the épisodes yet, and I think there is much to discover about him (I'd like to see him attracted in someone -man or woman, writers' choice, I don't mind).

 

I agree, the rivalry between the brothers adds an interesting element to the story. I wouldn't mind seeing an episode that explores what made them that way.

[Janyss]

Well Carol it is quite difficult to answer ... I have seen few parts in every episode, including the 4.3, as I was busy with my small kids, with job, or exhausted...when aired on French TV. I thus have an idea of the main evolutions of the story (I don't worry too much about spoiler, to my mind liking a series is about atmosphere mainly), characters...but not into details. My schedule seems clearer now as children grow. There is another Sherlock airing these days and I have begun seeing a few whole episodes (the pilot, Scandal in Belgravia, The hounds of Baskerville and The fall of Reichenbach). That is why I asserted there is much left to know about Mycroft (happy)!

 

Arcadia, I think this program is really something about two sides of brotherhood: on the one hand developing Mycroft raises the question of a brotherhood Sherlock hasn't chosen. On the other hand he builds another brotherhood with someone of his choice, i.e. Watson. The tension between these two sides is sometimes funny, sometimes a tragedy...perfect. And you can read the tension, the contradiction...on Mark Gatiss' very face, gesture...I wouldn't like to repeat too many things already said, I guess, in the topic, but the character and the actor are a pleasure to be seen.   

[J.P.]

Hi, another Mycroftian here!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Arcadia, I think this program is really something about two sides of brotherhood: on the one hand developing Mycroft raises the question of a brotherhood Sherlock hasn't chosen. On the other hand he builds another brotherhood with someone of his choice, i.e. Watson. The tension between these two sides is sometimes funny, sometimes a tragedy...perfect. And you can read the tension, the contradiction...on Mark Gatiss' very face, gesture...I wouldn't like to repeat too many things already said, I guess, in the topic, but the character and the actor are a pleasure to be seen.

Yup, agree to this.

Although I can rely on Sherlock-Mycroft brotherly relationship very well too with my siblings.

Can't stand each other, being competitive, blame and make each other's lives miserable, secretly protect your back but find it lame and nasty to say nice things to each other :p Yuck.

 

 

[Janyss]

Hi J.P.! Yes, I think I'm in love, definitely (which according to what I have read here and there would appear to some as a lost cause :lol:)! "Mr Iceman" doesn't only raises the question of brotherhood in the show, but also ones about power, about tough décisions to be made even if you hate yourself to make them...both in Shakespearian and funny ways. He also reminds me of traditional British series, like Mr Steed 60's "the Avengers", or even Lord Brett Sinclair.

[Hikari]

Hi, another Mycroftian here!

 

Mycroftians, unite!

 

A few of my favorite Holmes brothers fanvids from YouTube, featuring Big Brother.  Hopefully they will open in your country!

 

*************************************

 

Holmes Boys (a lighter side)

 

 

Permanent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbFclt9hew

 

[Hikari]

Hi, J.,

Unfortunately some of the ones I wanted to play for you do not transfer to this platform.  Mycroft is very popular on YouTube. 

 

I am the eldest sibling in my rather large family so I totally understand 'Big Brother' 's frustration when Little Brother is being a brat.  Mycroft and I also share being the smartest in our families.  :P :P

 

Mycroft only appears a couple of times in the Canon stories, but Sherlock speaks warmly of his big brother and easily admits that Mycroft is more brilliant than he is.  The modern TV show has turned this fraternal camaraderie into sibling rivalry which is pretty vicious on Sherlock's part. 

 

My explanation for Sherlock's poor attitude toward his big brother is that when he was 14 years old, their parents died and Mycroft, 7 years the elder and about to graduate from Cambridge and begin a brilliant career in Her Majesty's government couldn't have little brother running around getting into trouble and spoiling his chances at advancement.  So Mycroft put Sherlock in a very strict and austere Scottish boarding school.  Sherlock has never forgiven this.

 

That's my theory.  The Holmes parents are obviously dead--these senior citizens posing as the Holmes parents were jammed into the show because they are Benedict's real parents and Moffiss couldn't resist using them.

[Janyss]

There are many, most of them give you a great deal of fun! Thank you so much. One of my favorites is with Lily Allen's song. Unbelievable how the lyrics fit the situation! I think VBS mentionned the fact that Mycroft and Sherlock's relationship reminds many people of their own situation with brothers and sisters!

 

By the way Hikari, thanks for being so supportive with my English in the presentation topic! I must mention that I need subtitles for DVDs, English ones at least. And yes,BC's voice in French is also "baryton".

[Hikari]

C'est bon!

 

You do very well with English.  Please forgive our slangs and don't be afraid to ask for a translation!

 

 

[Janyss]

Thanks, and some slang has interest too, although I'm not always sure of the standards of language. I may ask if you don't mind. Looks like you speak French too?

 

Your assertions are very interesting, but I don't know enough about seasons 3 and 4 to say something. I'll let you know.

 

My own situation with my little brother also looks quite similar with Sherlock and Mycroft's: kind of rivalries in our field, rather difficult relationship, hard to say I love you, but sooooo important for each other...seems that Moffat and Gatiss have told a universal story with that idea of developing Mycroft... Does anyone know whose idea, where it came from, had the writers thought about this side, or was it only about political power and things like that in the first place?

[Hikari]

Thanks, and some slang has interest too, although I'm not always sure of the standards of language. I may ask if you don't mind. Looks like you speak French too?

 

Your assertions are very interesting, but I don't know enough about seasons 3 and 4 to say something. I'll let you know.

 

My own situation with my little brother also looks quite similar with Sherlock and Mycroft's: kind of rivalries in our field, rather difficult relationship, hard to say I love you, but sooooo important for each other...seems that Moffat and Gatiss have told a universal story with that idea of developing Mycroft... Does anyone know whose idea, where it came from, had the writers thought about this side, or was it only about political power and things like that in the first place?

 

J.

 

Je ne parle pas fracais.  Un petit peu!  J'ai 2 amis du Quebec.

 

Back to English, because that's all my French!

 

Mark Gatiss is a busy actor as well as a co-executive producer and a writer on "Sherlock".  I assume that Mycroft's enhanced role on the show came out of MG wanting to write a good and rather complex part for himself.  He probably discussed/worked with Benedict a great deal to craft this relationship of brothers.  The age difference between the actors is similar to the characters, and Mark is, in a sense what they call in Japanese 'sempai' to Ben--the senior, mentor figure, in the same way that Mycroft is to Sherlock.  Though Benedict is much more polite and grateful to his onscreen 'brother' than Sherlock is!  He and MG have a finely-calibrated screen chemistry together just as BC and Martin Freeman have their own dynamic. 

 

I consider Mark's version to be an improvement on the original.  I always thought that Arthur Conan Doyle wasted many of his most memorable characters including Mycroft and Moriarty.

 

Mark Gatiss has the physicality to be a Sherlock, too . .perhaps a Victorian version. 

[Artemis]

Je ne parle pas fracais. Un petit peu! J'ai 2 amis du Quebec.

 

Back to English, because that's all my French!

 

I can't believe I understood that, I haven't spoken French since school days, lol.

 

Welcome, Janyss! Mycroft is one of my favorite characters. I love his repartee with Sherlock, and I think he's a bit of a softie underneath, like his brother.

 

By the way, Hikari, I like your signature! (The Naval Treaty, yes?)

[Janyss]

What is "softie underneath"?

Yes, MG has donne well with this balance between brotherhood and friendship. I didn't know this actor before Sherlock, but sure he deserves great role! But him as a Sherlock... Too much expressive, I would say. But I only know him as Mycroft. The paradoxes of the character bring him into playing on contrasts between facial expression and body steadiness (does the word exist?). Mr Iceman, OK, but with such ardent fire inside. The one saying "caring is not an advantage" and "I worry about him, constantly".

OK...I'll try to see MG in other roles, but I think he'll be Mycroft forever to many people.

[Hikari]

 

Je ne parle pas fracais. Un petit peu! J'ai 2 amis du Quebec.

 

Back to English, because that's all my French!

I can't believe I understood that, I haven't spoken French since school days, lol.

 

Welcome, Janyss! Mycroft is one of my favorite characters. I love his repartee with Sherlock, and I think he's a bit of a softie underneath, like his brother.

 

By the way, Hikari, I like your signature! (The Naval Treaty, yes?)

 

 

Oui, madame.

 

Though in The Naval Treaty, Sherlock calls *Watson* the stormy petrel of crime.  Droll, because being a stormy harbinger of malfeasance wouldn't really seem to be Watson's area.  But the Great Detective hast spoken, so it must be true!

 

I like that story, but if pressed, I have to say I prefer 'The Bruce-Partington Plans'.  "The Great Game" (written by our Mycroft, MG) is a riff on the B-P Plans, with a smidgen of 'The Five Orange Pips'.

[Hikari]

What is "softie underneath"?

Yes, MG has donne well with this balance between brotherhood and friendship. I didn't know this actor before Sherlock, but sure he deserves great role! But him as a Sherlock... Too much expressive, I would say. But I only know him as Mycroft. The paradoxes of the character bring him into playing on contrasts between facial expression and body steadiness (does the word exist?). Mr Iceman, OK, but with such ardent fire inside. The one saying "caring is not an advantage" and "I worry about him, constantly".

OK...I'll try to see MG in other roles, but I think he'll be Mycroft forever to many people.

 

"Softie underneath"

 

Picture a crusty roll au pain, and you bite into it, and under the tough outside layer, it is full of crème.

 

This is Mycroft.  Seems hard on the outside, but on the inside where no one can see (or underneath his skin) he has a soft heart.

[Janyss]

Completely how I see Mycroft...Adding he is a kind of John Steed who would have lost his good mood, humour and irony after seeing amounts of tragedies and disgusting behaviours in his job. He could be the character of Dire Straits' "Private investigation" (treachery and treason, there's always an excuse for it, but when I find the reason, I still can't get used to it"..."Waht have you got at the end of the day? A bottle of whisky and a pain behind the eyes"..Sorry, I'm a zero at finding videos and transfering them, so I just quoted the lyrics).

 

We could think of Sherlock owing to the title of the song, but to my mind Sherlock also has seen this kind of things, but has accepted them in a way, while Mycroft cannot in the end. That is why he is the one who could phrase these words.

[Hikari]

Completely how I see Mycroft...Adding he is a kind of John Steed who would have lost his good mood, humour and irony after seeing amounts of tragedies and disgusting behaviours in his job. He could be the character of Dire Straits' "Private investigation" (treachery and treason, there's always an excuse for it, but when I find the reason, I still can't get used to it"..."Waht have you got at the end of the day? A bottle of whisky and a pain behind the eyes"..Sorry, I'm a zero at finding videos and transfering them, so I just quoted the lyrics).

 

We could think of Sherlock owing to the title of the song, but to my mind Sherlock also has seen this kind of things, but has accepted them in a way, while Mycroft cannot in the end. That is why he is the one who could phrase these words.

 

J.,

 

I should add that Mycroft is only a pain de la crème with his little brother.  With everyone else, he can be ruthless.  He has to be--it's his job to protect Britain from terrorists.

 

Sherlock is his Achilles heel, his pressure point.  He told Sherlock, "Caring is not an advantage."  Not because he is a robot, but because he knows from personal experience what a disadvantage it is at times to care so much for Sherlock Holmes.

[Janyss]

Agree. Mycroft deals with questions about political power (in the political field because of his position, and in his family, as the eldest...), decisions to be made...There is something dark and shakespearian about him, and Gatiss perfectly conveys this double side. I wouldn't like to be in Mycroft's interrogation room as a suspect.
(well, in other kinds of situations I wouldn't refuse it, if I could avoid being ranked in the "goldfish group", we could have a very interesting word or two about literature or other fields, I guess...).

[Arcadia]

Thanks, and some slang has interest too, although I'm not always sure of the standards of language. I may ask if you don't mind. Looks like you speak French too?

 

Your assertions are very interesting, but I don't know enough about seasons 3 and 4 to say something. I'll let you know.

 

My own situation with my little brother also looks quite similar with Sherlock and Mycroft's: kind of rivalries in our field, rather difficult relationship, hard to say I love you, but sooooo important for each other...seems that Moffat and Gatiss have told a universal story with that idea of developing Mycroft... Does anyone know whose idea, where it came from, had the writers thought about this side, or was it only about political power and things like that in the first place?

 

"Moftiss" has mentioned several times that they based the relationship between Mycroft and Sherlock on the movie The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes. I've seen the movie, but I honestly can't remember that they treated each other that badly! But that's what they say.

 

Mark has also said - I can't remember where - that he also got ideas from his relationship with his own brother when they were younger. Apparently they didn't get along too well growing up.

 

There's another story that, once they'd written Mycroft into the show, they were wondering who should play him, and one of the crew said why not Mark? And Mark said yes. I haven't really noticed that he wrote himself a bigger role as a result, though ... he's barely in Hounds of Baskerville! He does have a slightly bigger role in The Empty Hearse, though, doesn't he? Hmmmm......

[J.P.]

They were apparently quite impressed with Mark's part in… erm… where he plays this sinister politician. Mark said they actually used that other character as a model for Mycroft too.

[Janyss]

Thus..."Sherlock", a family therapy for the Gatiss boys :D? If only every family problem could be turned into such a work!

 

JP, I don't know any other role by MG, but I have read he took the model of Peter Mandelson, a British politician, to create his Mycroft.

 

I would'nt say he wrote something just for himself. Mycroft is there only when needed, it is not an overwhelming and unjustified presence. But he's so good that he takes it all in any scene, even the shorter ones, even if there are no lines, just with gesture and expressions on his face.  

[J.P.]

And it seems clear from the beginning that Mycroft is a very important person for Sherlock, even if it's not clear in which way.
 

Mandelson! That's the name.

 

There are quite a lot Mark's movies online. I think I've posted some links… somewhere. Maybe in Mark Gatiss News?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I should add that Mycroft is only a pain de la crème with his little brother.

And with everyone else, he's a pain de la butt?

 

 

 

 

(sorry .... never could resist a straight line)

[Janyss]

I think I see your point, Carol !

 

After the last episode, I have the temptation of drawing a parallel between Mycroft and (despite my crush on the character) Neville Chamberlain, the British PM just before WW2. He was widely blind in front the dangers of his time, made bad decisions as he didn't want a new war and wanted to comfort people, to prevent them from worrying and suffering -just like Mycroft did about Euros, Sherlock and their parents-, but the stake was so heavy. I wouldn't have liked bearing the weight of Chamberlain and Mycroft's decisions with their conséquences. The overwhelming weight may be an explanation for Mycroft's behaviour sometimes (asserting he doesn't want blood on his hands while obviously he has rivers of it on them at the moment of this line).

[Hikari]

 

I should add that Mycroft is only a pain de la crème with his little brother.

And with everyone else, he's a pain de la butt?

 

 

 

 

(sorry .... never could resist a straight line)

 

 

I think he's probably just a pain in the butt to Sherlock . . sometimes John, when he abducts him for intel . . and M. is occasionally rude to Mrs. Hudson.  But otherwise, I think he is widely respected as terrifyingly good at his job . . which is keeping Britain safe for all the 'goldfish'.

 

Respected is not 'liked' . . . but Mycroft doesn't seem prone to being discontent with his lot in life. He would be devastated to be compared to Neville Chamberlain, widely acknowledged cult failure.  In sartorial style, maybe but in no other way.  Mycroft, unlike Chamberlain, is competent.

 

I don't actually understand all the Mycroft hate . . .to me, MG's scenes with 'Little Brother' are some of the best.  There's only one other person in the universe that completely comprehends what it's like to be a Holmes--they have to stick together.

 

I do not acknowledge Eurus as a Holmes.  Eurus is SM's idea of a bad joke.