John Watson

[Carol the Dabbler]

Besides, the fake death was pretty convincing. I already knew there was going to be a season 3 when I saw TRF (plus I knew Holmes survived the Falls in canon); even so, the first time I saw Sherlock hit the pavement, it was pretty convincing to me! For a few minutes there I wondered if they'd killed him off after all. So imagine if we didn't see Sherlock at the end, and didn't know there was an S3 ... we might be just as convinced as John that it was all over. My sister thought so.

Tell me about it. I didn't know the canon and got hit by HFTDS: Horrifying Fictional TV Death Syndrome and curled in my bed, rocking back and forth and that sent me here guys, being a lunatic, just like the rest of you.

 

Man, you interpreted "tell me about it" in a far different way than I did, Carol! :D I thought VBS meant "I know what you mean". Don't you love the English language?

Yes, that's what I meant, not literally.

 

I assume that when somebody says they don't know something, and asks me to tell them -- they mean that to be taken literally.  Otherwise I might as well stop answering questions altogether, on the assumption that nobody actually wants to know anything.

 

But yeah, now that I've read your post over again, I can see that you could have meant it the way Arcadia took it.  In fact, if a native English speaker had said exactly what you said, I would have been more likely to take it figuratively from the start.  But you don't always phrase things quite the way a native speaker would, so I guess I've developed the habit of taking you pretty literally.  (Well, most of the time! :P )

 

In canon what is Holmes doing in the time he is pretending to be dead?

 

I assume you mean that to be taken literally?  If not, please ignore the following.

 

What we saw in Many Happy Returns is a pretty reasonable interpretation of what canon Holmes did, including the trip to Tibet.  Basically, he was disassembling Moriarty's network abroad, then he returned to London to take down the local branch with Watson's help, starting at the top with Moran.

[Pseudonym]

Yes, it was literal, ta muchly. They should have stuck with the Moran storyline then, would have been much more exciting and would have helped John feel like he was valued again. I know they did a very vague nod with the terrorist plot and Lord Moran but I prefer the fic versions of Moran so much more, where he's like an anti-John the way Moriarty is an anti-Sherlock. Keep the terrorist plot - make Moran more badass instead of a bit of a pathetic Lord. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, that's my feeling too.  But I guess they figured that's what we were expecting them to do, so heaven forbid!

 

They do seem in general to have gotten progressively further and further from a modern adaptation of Doyle, so that now they're pretty much doing a modern anti-Doyle.  Mary isn't really John's sweet little wife, she's a retired assassin-for-hire.   John punches Sherlock mercilessly, then kicks him when he's down.  They're making both Elementary and the Guy Ritchie movies look slavishly true to Doyle by comparison.  Why they think this would be attractive either to Holmes fans or to people who loved Series 1 and 2 is beyond me.

 

Though that's not why they do Sherlock, is it?  They're just playing in their sandbox and letting us watch.  *sigh*

[Pseudonym]

That's the weird thing, they started off as fanboys and then they seem to have egged each other on to the point it's all too far removed from the parts people loved in the first place, ie, Holmes, Watson and cases. 

[Arcadia]

Actually I imagine that if John didn't jump to Sherlock and just attempted to punch (and Sherlock didn't let him), Sherlock would be able to duck every single punches and in my evil mind, that would be...hilarious? Sorry. XD

Don't be sorry, it would be hilarious. Evilly so. :P I wanna see it!

 

For those who don't know, hysteria is syndrome known since probably 13th to early 20th century, mostly 19th, for women. It includes anxiety, difficulty sleeping, heaviness in lower abdomen, fantasizing and others that you could google yourself. The treatment for it is orgasm, yep, and there are some historians who suggested that this led to invention of vibrator because it must be tiring for the doctors?

The things I've learned on this forum......

 

 

There needs to be a little symbol you can add after a phrase to indicate if it's meant literally or not.

I vote that we say how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood after the phrase.

 

I vote no.

 

Though that's not why they do Sherlock, is it?  They're just playing in their sandbox and letting us watch.  *sigh*

 

That's the weird thing, they started off as fanboys and then they seem to have egged each other on to the point it's all too far removed from the parts people loved in the first place, ie, Holmes, Watson and cases.

 

And then you get people like me that don't really mind what direction they go in ... as long as it's a well-done story. That's my problem with S4, two of the episodes ... one in particular ... were not, imo, well told. But then S1 and S2 each had a weak episode, so I'm still stuck liking S3 the best, because I thought all 3 eps were brilliant. Sure, HLV was preposterous, but it punched about every emotional button I possess in just the right way, and that rarely happens. I think the last thing that affected me like that was Fullmetal Alchemist. (If you like having your tears jerked, I can recommend it. )

 

It's funny, I thought TFP was the most fan-boyish of the lot; emphasis on boyish. It was like watching my nephew take his Buzz Lightyear toy and act out every possible scenario with it, each one more gloriously gruesome than the one before. But Buzz always triumphed. Naturally.

[Pseudonym]

The woodchuck suggestion? You typed it, so the rest of it can just copy and paste. :D

 

But I mean they were fans of ACD and Holmes at the beginning, but I take your point, season 4 is fanboys gone wild.

 

I liked the way they took the original stories and tweaked them, there is only so many times I can watch the same story being retold before I'm dying of boredom, I don't need yet another faithful Hound adaptation for example. But I also don't care about bit characters and those entirely invented. I think that's why I dislike season 3, too much Mary.

[Arcadia]

And I think that's why I'm not as engaged by TBB and Hounds; too much time spent with the bit players, who aren't that interesting, instead of giving us more time with the boys, who are. But I can't really accuse S4 of that, I think, so that's not the reason it bugs me.

 

I liked Mary and the way she interacted with Sherlock, so that didn't bother me. Still think making her an assassin was stupid, though. But very much a boy thing. That's what I keep circling back to; if I just keep reminding myself that Moftiss are basically little boys, I'm not too surprised by anything they think is cool.

[T.o.b.y]

 

Actually I imagine that if John didn't jump to Sherlock and just attempted to punch (and Sherlock didn't let him), Sherlock would be able to duck every single punches and in my evil mind, that would be...hilarious? Sorry. XD

Don't be sorry, it would be hilarious. Evilly so. :P I wanna see it!

For those who don't know, hysteria is syndrome known since probably 13th to early 20th century, mostly 19th, for women. It includes anxiety, difficulty sleeping, heaviness in lower abdomen, fantasizing and others that you could google yourself. The treatment for it is orgasm, yep, and there are some historians who suggested that this led to invention of vibrator because it must be tiring for the doctors?

The things I've learned on this forum......

 

There needs to be a little symbol you can add after a phrase to indicate if it's meant literally or not.

I vote that we say how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood after the phrase.

I vote no.

Though that's not why they do Sherlock, is it? They're just playing in their sandbox and letting us watch. *sigh*

That's the weird thing, they started off as fanboys and then they seem to have egged each other on to the point it's all too far removed from the parts people loved in the first place, ie, Holmes, Watson and cases.

And then you get people like me that don't really mind what direction they go in ... as long as it's a well-done story. That's my problem with S4, two of the episodes ... one in particular ... were not, imo, well told. But then S1 and S2 each had a weak episode, so I'm still stuck liking S3 the best, because I thought all 3 eps were brilliant. Sure, HLV was preposterous, but it punched about every emotional button I possess in just the right way, and that rarely happens. I think the last thing that affected me like that was Fullmetal Alchemist. (If you like having your tears jerked, I can recommend it. )

 

It's funny, I thought TFP was the most fan-boyish of the lot; emphasis on boyish. It was like watching my nephew take his Buzz Lightyear toy and act out every possible scenario with it, each one more gloriously gruesome than the one before. But Buzz always triumphed. Naturally.

Exactly, The Final Problem was such a fanboy fest. I would never have let that script pass if I had been the producer but as a fangirl myself, I found I could appreciate it very much. I just giggled, grinned or outright laughed all the way through. I feel as if The Lying Detective was the serious ending for the series and the last episode more of an epilog à la "now we've gotten all hard stuff sorted out, let's have some real fun before we say goodbye and end on a more lighthearted note".

[Arcadia]

"Lighthearted" is not how I would characterize TFP! But I get your point and essentially agree with you ... TFP is where they went "ah, f*ck continuity, let's just fulfill all our boyhood fantasies!"

[Boton]

The fans will sort continuity out - let's give them something to do!

[Artemis]

Actually I imagine that if John didn't jump to Sherlock and just attempted to punch (and Sherlock didn't let him), Sherlock would be able to duck every single punches and in my evil mind, that would be...hilarious? Sorry.

 

I envisioned that scene so many times during the show!  It seemed such a natural way to go, I kept expecting it and was actually a little surprised that it never came about.  It would have been hilarious, lol.

 

I think the last thing that affected me like that was Fullmetal Alchemist. (If you like having your tears jerked, I can recommend it. )

 

Oh man, Fullmetal Alchemist...   I don't like having my tears jerked (and I don't normally cry at TV), but that show was good.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hey, Artemis -- welcome back!  I've been missing your posts.

[Artemis]

Thanks Carol!    I've been missing here, too.  It appears I have something of an on-again-off-again relationship with this forum, posting in spurts for a few months and then disappearing for a few months.  I *think* about posting a lot more than I actually get to, lol.

 

 

[Hikari]

Late to this thread, so apologies if this has been covered, but have we discussed what was going on with Martin Freeman's hair in S4?

 

It was so poufy, so blond . . .it was very distracting.  Martin said previously that he much preferred the short haircut.  The Case of the Curiously Growing Hair in S1 (in which both actors' hair was very long and Bohemian in 'The Great Game' and short in the other two) was due to TGG being shot *first*, before the pilot.  Because Steven Moffat was so wrapped up with Doctor Who, he didn't get his pilot script done in time for the shooting schedule.  Study in Pink was actually shot last, just proving that our actors are very adept.

 

Watson's hair in S4 was entirely out of character for our soldier-doctor.  If anything it made him look like an aging club boi.  Wonder what the thinking was there.

[Boton]

Yes!  That's it: aging club boi!  I've wondered for most of the year exactly what was wrong with S4 Watson-hair, and that is exactly it.

[T.o.b.y]

I wonder whose idea that hairstyle was and what it was supposed to be all about. Sign of a midlife crisis maybe?

[Hikari]

Yes!  That's it: aging club boi!  I've wondered for most of the year exactly what was wrong with S4 Watson-hair, and that is exactly it.

 

I almost said 'aging rent boy' but thought better of it. 

Martin has sandy brown hair which is totally appropriate for Dr. Watson, but I swear they bleached his hair much blonder than its normal shade for S4.  Whatever they were going for, it was way too much, of everything.  He looked like a  WHAM! video.  I thought it aged his face considerably.

[Pseudonym]

I wouldn't call that blond, I'd just call it grey, which he does seem to be now. 

[T.o.b.y]

Maybe they did it to make him look older?

[Pseudonym]

I think that just is his hair colour now. It's the same as Phil Rask and when he's in interviews. Whether they should have dyed it to make him look a bit younger or not is another thing. 

 

That's not to say I like the hair, the swoop is much too dandyish and fussy for an apparently no-nonsense man like John Watson. 

 

It's like they had an entirely difference stylist who had never seen the first few seasons. John and Mary's hair grew at an astonishing rate. Sherlock looked old and haggard. John and Mary also apparently changed their personal clothing choices to look like undertakers. A whole lot of bizarreness. 

[Boton]

 

Yes!  That's it: aging club boi!  I've wondered for most of the year exactly what was wrong with S4 Watson-hair, and that is exactly it.

 

I almost said 'aging rent boy' but thought better of it. 

He looked like a  WHAM! video. 

 

 

Exactly.  I initially thought they were going for subtle proof that Johnlock was really going to happen.   ;)

[Pseudonym]

Everything is subtle proof Johnlock is going to happen. ;)

[Boton]

Maybe they did it to make him look older?

 

Mission accomplished.

[Carol the Dabbler]

It's apparently just Freeman's current hair style, but I do wish he had worn it in the classic Watson style (AKA Freeman's *former* personal hairstyle) for S4.  I think the Swoop makes John look way too much like Martin Freeman!  Not that that's a bad thing, just that it's not John.  I agree, it's a far-too-high-maintenance style for no-nonsense John (who according to his roomie merely washes his hair).

 

As for John's hair color, I agree that it seems to be Freeman's own color, dark blond with a gradually-increasing amount of silver.  Looks good on him, I think, and of course John wouldn't dye his hair either.

 

But since we seem to be stuck with the Swoop for S4 at least, then I agree, John's presumably having a midlife crisis.  Goodness knows he's had enough reasons!

[J.P.]

Late to this thread, so apologies if this has been covered, but have we discussed what was going on with Martin Freeman's hair in S4?

 

From https://loveismyrevolution.tumblr.com/post/167080198352/sherlocked-uk-2017-12-on-hair-styles

 

Sherlocked UK 2017 #12 on hair styles

 

During the make up workshop with Claire Pritchard-Jones I got the chance to ask some questions….. (annoying question me striking again ;-)))

Claire was talking about Ben’s wig for TAB which they made especially to have a good continuity for the modern time scenes as his own hair had to be cut short for the Victorian style

 

ME: Claire, may I ask… speaking of continuity… why did you chose for Martin’s and Amanda’s hair style to be totally different from the ones they had in HLV? Because regarding the timeline there wouldn’t be much time between the end of HLV and the start of TST?? Isn’t it?? I mean.. not enough time to grow the hair that much… innit?

 

CLAIRE: Yeah… THAT was mostly Martin’s doing… he came back from another project having this long-ish hair and ..well.. he quite liked it! And he had the oppinion that his character had moved on and that he’d like to make that visible! Same with Amanda… I mean they were married and all..they were different now and they wanted to show that on screen. And Martin was kind of really fond with his new hair style… well… and as a style artist you sometimes have to do it with what you get. You know… we try to suggest things… we talk a lot about it with the actors and of course I have a certain picture of how that would look like… but we would never force an actor into something… if they’re really not comfortable with something we’d never force them to do something they don’t like!!!! Well… and that was with Martin… he was very convinced about this idea and… well.. you know… we talked about it… and Sue was like “please just make Martin stay happy” *laughing*… so there we went…. 

I tried to ease the look a bit throughout the series though… *smirk* … if you watch closely you’ll see that the style becomes a bit more moderate… 

We were … I gues… one week into shooting, when Martin started to doubt… he came to me and said : “Did I make a mistake??”…but..you know… ther was already so much filming done, different important scenes… because of course we don’t shoot chronologically… this were scenes spread all over the episode… so we couldn’t just re-do them…. So we stayed with the style and modified it a bit… *laughing again*… we have to work with what we get!!! It isn’t always easy!!!

 

ME: But if John’s hairstyle changed because his character changed….I wonder… did you ever think about changing Sherlock’s hair style as well?? Because.. I mean… his character developed a lot too, isn’t it??? Especially as we know that Ben hates it…..

 

CLAIRE: Oh… you know… most of all Ben hates it because he cant’t handle it on his own. He just comes to me after showering, hiding under a hat or something… and his hair is like… *makes messy-hair movements around her head* *laughing*…. but then after a while when we put conditioner in and then we “twist and diffuse” you know… and then he’s fine… but he just couldn’t do that on his own… I mean.. which man possibly could  *laughing* !!!

But no, we never wanted to change that style. We put a lot of thought into that style…from the pilot on we had lot’s of talks about it and tried different things… and this is what we stayed with! And now it’s such an iconic look, we won’t change Sherlock’s look…. 

(end of this part)

 

(please be aware, that I recount all this from my memory and therefore bring it into my own words. I have no records, so this is not word for word what the people in question actually said!! I try to word the main essence of the sometimes rather ridiculous long monologues *eyeroll* :-)))