Episode 4.0: The Abominable Bride (alias The Special)

[Amber§]

Sorry for my ignorance but, in the film, Sherlock was so convinced to find the body of the two womans (the bride and her "sostitute") in the same grave. I didn't understand why Sherlock was so sure to find them together. They could have been inhumed in different places,couldn't they?

[Arcadia]

By the way, I was talking with a couple of friends yesterday about the Special; they'd watched it, but didn't care much for it, because it was too "complicated." So I pointed out I'd had to watch it a few times to get my head around it; to which they responded they didn't want to have to watch a show more than once in order to understand it.
 
Okay, fair enough. That sort of answers a question I asked earlier; why is "self-referential" considered such a bad thing by reviewers? It's fairly obvious, actually, now that I've thought it through; they're not fans, anymore than my friends are. My friends have liked the show when they've seen it, but they don't go out of their way to watch it, let alone rewatch it, and they certainly don't care enough to remember what happened two years ago. Unlike Downton Abbey, which they follow obsessively ... and which I can't watch even once, let alone multiple times, because it's just too ... whatever it is. :P So I get it. Being "self-referential" does sort of place casual fans on the outside looking in. But they're there by choice, so I can't get too upset about it.
 
Anyway, what I'm working my way around to is; the reason I appreciate my friends is because they were content to leave it there. They didn't rant against how bad the show was, or complain because it wasn't the show they wanted it to be; they simply didn't enjoy it as much as I did, and that was that. Unlike another friend of mine, who couldn't stop talking about how bad it was because it wasn't the Jeremy Brett version. I finally snapped at her, and she finally realized how hurtful it was to me to hear someone go on and on and on about how much she hated something I loved. She still hates the show, but at least she has the sense not to talk about it in front of me anymore. (Although she still disses it behind my back, which I still find hurtful. I wish she'd just shut up about it already, and talk about something she DOES like, instead. But she's never been known for her sensitivity. ;) ) (Hi, Liz! I'm talking about you! :D ) Anyway, I've taken my revenge; I steadfastly refuse to watch Doc Martin, which she adores. So there. :P

[Pamela]

 

And who was the "Mary's in danger" note from, anyway? Sherlock's subconscious, I presume. As a way to divert John/Watson from the real issue, which was Sherlock od'ing at that point?

 

 

I thought it was from Mary herself. After all, she was waiting for them at the church, wasn't she?

[Slithytove]

 

Not my Sherlock

I predicted that I won't like the Victorian version of Sherlock. And so it is. I don't like him. I don't like John either. Their aggressive approach to one another, their fights, them insulting one another openly. Our Sherlock would never call someone a short-a**e either - his insults usually have much higher standards. While the twisted and knotted plot is a feast for my brain, there is nothing for my heart. Nothing I could relate to, in the way I do to the rest of the series.

Mycroft is the only emotionally moving person in the episode. But I'm not even sure if he's real. Furthermore, the possible interpretations of his behavior contain his possible death in S4 and this is something I don't even want to think about. :o

Plus - as much as I love the setting, I don't like how our boys look like.

 

Funny that several of you around here say that you didn't particularly care for the Victorian Sherlock and / or felt like he was a completely different person. It wasn't so for me. Not only did I really like him, but I felt at home and comfortable with him, both as Holmes and as Sherlock. He was little more dignified and a little more mature, but no surprise, since this is Sherlock's idea of himself plus his idea of himself as written by John. Of course this man doesn't lie on the sofa pouting, or stutter or go to Buckingham Palace dressed in a bed-sheet. Sherlock isn't likely to think of himself that way. Very human, very understandable. Don't we all have idealized versions of ourselves who we cast into the stories that make up our daydreams? Victorian Holmes had me thinking "whew, he's back and in top form" one moment and "awww, Sherlock" the next.

 

John however... You know, I am kind of sad to say this, but I don't really like his recent character development. He was "off" for most of series 3 in my eyes, and the mind palace version simply highlights this. I was really relieved to see him more "like himself" on the plane. I thought the contrast between 21st century John and this 19th century Dr Watson was pretty striking. 

 

Things are definitely getting louder. Everyone is more aggressive, not just the boys. Even Molly is shouting and slapping and killing people (the latter only inside Sherlock's mind as far as we know, but still). I also liked Molly better before.

 

What I did miss a little during the Special was the gentleness the series used to have. Not always, but often. Even His Last Vow, for all it was such a brutal episode, had all this low sad music and the softly spoken dialog and subtle little moments.  But then, The Abominable Bride takes place inside Sherlock's mind, and he's not a gentle person nor would he harbor gentle fantasies. He loves crashing and banging and yelling, fighting. Far from objecting to John as a macho bulldog, he likes him that way, and the women he dreams of are all more or less d0minatrices.

 

I do share Sherlock's taste for melodrama. Melodrama is my guilty pleasure, I can identify with him very well in that respect.

 

 

I agree completely. 

 

You summed up the way I feel about Sherlock, in his modern and Victorian incarnations, and also about John.  I love ACD's Dr Watson - a kind, brave and loyal man - and John in S1 and 2 is a perfect modern version.  He has the virtues of the original but he is also prepared to challenge Sherlock and guide him when he is being insensitive to other people's feelings.  Perfect.  In S3, though...Well, it is understandable that he is angry when he discovers the lie about Sherlock's "death."  More believable than Watson's immediate acceptance and forgiveness.  However, something about him seems to have changed.  He seems harder towards Sherlock, less understanding and, in my opinion, less moral.  I still love the dialogue between the two men, which is still quick and funny, but I hope John in S4 is more like the man he used to be.

[Slithytove]

Unlike Downton Abbey, which they follow obsessively ... and which I can't watch even once, let alone multiple times, because it's just too ... whatever it is. :P

Downton Abbey...Boring, predictable, stuffed with stock characters - loyal old butler, heart-of-gold cook, proud but kindly head of the family, proud but spirited daughters, proud but spirited old lady, etc, etc - and every line a cliché OR REALLY OBVIOUS EXPOSITION SPELLED OUT IN CAPITAL LETTERS. I hated it but could not avoid it, because my husband liked it.

 

Incidentally, it gets 5 stars and glowing reviews on Amazon.  So much for their opinions!

[Arcadia]

Sorry for my ignorance but, in the film, Sherlock was so convinced to find the body of the two womans (the bride and her "sostitute") in the same grave. I didn't understand why Sherlock was so sure to find them together. They could have been inhumed in different places,couldn't they?

Oh, it's not just you, I can't figure that out either, why he was SO sure the second body had to be in the grave. But I think maybe it was meant to be more symbolic than real at that point ... his drugged mind trying to lure him off track, and follow some useless idea instead of focusing on waking up. Or something like that. As I said, I haven't figured it out yet!

 

 

And who was the "Mary's in danger" note from, anyway? Sherlock's subconscious, I presume. As a way to divert John/Watson from the real issue, which was Sherlock od'ing at that point?

 

 

I thought it was from Mary herself. After all, she was waiting for them at the church, wasn't she?

 

Oh. Yes, of course, that makes perfect sense. So much for obeying Mycroft's orders to not let them know she was working for him! :d

[J.P.]

I just had a thought; wouldn't it be funny if S4 opened with Sherlock still on the plane, and we discover everything about this episode was a dream? :P

 

I actually want it to happen.

 

 

Ooooh, you're going to be in big trouble with some people for that one! :D

Now I'm lost

[Arcadia]

 

 

 

Ooooh, you're going to be in big trouble with some people for that one! :D

Now I'm lost

 

Some people have been offended by the fat jokes.

[J.P.]

Oh, thanks.

Victorian Mycroft IS a joke. Don't shoot at ME! :P

[T.o.b.y]

Yes, I'm afraid I had a similar thought ... the language he was using in the cab when he was demanding to know about Mary did not sit well with me.

 

That bit didn't bother me at all. I thought it was funny and in character, besides, I liked how the lines between the modern and the old world began to blur inside Sherlock's head.

 

And who was the "Mary's in danger" note from, anyway? Sherlock's subconscious, I presume. As a way to divert John/Watson from the real issue, which was Sherlock od'ing at that point?

 

I thought it was from Mary herself! She had found the meeting place of the secret society and wanted Sherlock to have a look at it. I doubt the message actually said "I am in danger" - although that would have been very effective in bringing the boys over fast.

 

The scene where Dr Watson asks if Holmes is in any fit state to go out and he insists on doing so because "for Mary", that really reminded me of His Last Vow, where Sherlock tried to sort out Mary's affairs while internally bleeding form a bullet wound. (Interesting, by the way, that Mind Palace John is concerned for Sherlock's health and ability to work, while the real John didn't even seem to notice Sherlock was on the brink of collapsing until the ambulance came).

 

By the way, I was talking with a couple of friends yesterday about the Special; they'd watched it, but didn't care much for it, because it was too "complicated." So I pointed out I'd had to watch it a few times to get my head around it; to which they responded they didn't want to have to watch a show more than once in order to understand it.

 

Okay, fair enough. That sort of answers a question I asked earlier; why is "self-referential" considered such a bad thing by reviewers? It's fairly obvious, actually, now that I've thought it through; they're not fans, anymore than my friends are. My friends have liked the show when they've seen it, but they don't go out of their way to watch it, let alone rewatch it, and they certainly don't care enough to remember what happened two years ago. Unlike Downton Abbey, which they follow obsessively ... and which I can't watch even once, let alone multiple times, because it's just too ... whatever it is. :P So I get it. Being "self-referential" does sort of place casual fans on the outside looking in. But they're there by choice, so I can't get too upset about it.

 

Yes, Sherlock is a really series that's really suited for obsessive fandom and maybe not quite so suited for casual viewing. I find this particularly amusing because I remember the writers having made remarks on several occasions on how they don't work with the hardcore fans in mind and that these are actually only a small part of the audience.

 

Anyway, it's a very rewarding show for someone like me, who not only doesn't mind watching something I like multiple times but actually prefers to.

 

 

You summed up the way I feel about Sherlock, in his modern and Victorian incarnations, and also about John.  I love ACD's Dr Watson - a kind, brave and loyal man - and John in S1 and 2 is a perfect modern version.  He has the virtues of the original but he is also prepared to challenge Sherlock and guide him when he is being insensitive to other people's feelings.  Perfect.  In S3, though...Well, it is understandable that he is angry when he discovers the lie about Sherlock's "death."  More believable than Watson's immediate acceptance and forgiveness.  However, something about him seems to have changed.  He seems harder towards Sherlock, less understanding and, in my opinion, less moral.  I still love the dialogue between the two men, which is still quick and funny, but I hope John in S4 is more like the man he used to be.

 

To be honest, I don't really care all that much about John being moral. I've never seen him as The Good Guy, I think he's that only in direct comparison with Sherlock and only in certain areas. What bothers me is that I feel the character has lost something, call it subtlety or nuance or what you will. There was something more dry and understated about John during the first two series. Now he leans more towards action hero and that's just not my thing.

 

Oh, it's not just you, I can't figure that out either, why he was SO sure the second body had to be in the grave. But I think maybe it was meant to be more symbolic than real at that point ... his drugged mind trying to lure him off track, and follow some useless idea instead of focusing on waking up. Or something like that. As I said, I haven't figured it out yet!

 

I think it was more about confirming that there was a second body than the exact location. The grave was just the only place Sherlock could think of to begin looking.

[Arcadia]

 

And who was the "Mary's in danger" note from, anyway? Sherlock's subconscious, I presume. As a way to divert John/Watson from the real issue, which was Sherlock od'ing at that point?

 

I thought it was from Mary herself! She had found the meeting place of the secret society and wanted Sherlock to have a look at it. I doubt the message actually said "I am in danger" - although that would have been very effective in bringing the boys over fast.

 

Me -->

 

Yes, Sherlock is a really series that's really suited for obsessive fandom and maybe not quite so suited for casual viewing. I find this particularly amusing because I remember the writers having made remarks on several occasions on how they don't work with the hardcore fans in mind and that these are actually only a small part of the audience.

 

Anyway, it's a very rewarding show for someone like me, who not only doesn't mind watching something I like multiple times but actually prefers to.

Hear hear! It's sort of how like I prefer lengthy novels; once I like a book enough to get into it, I don't want it to end.

[sfmpco]

My overall sense with TAB is that people who saw it and either didn't get it or didn't like it simply saw it but did not observe it.  This includes the vast majority of "legit" reviewers, bloggers, etc. I do feel a bit sorry for the people who went into it having never seen any Sherlock at all and didn't understand the backstory that went into TAB.

 

This episode was not crafted on the back of a weekend bender on a lark as some naysayers seem to suggest.  No.  There is not a word or scene out of place.  I suspect this usage of the mind palace is the most extensive view we will ever see, even if it was drug-addled.  It is actually very smart and layered.  

 

And chew on this one for a while:  if Sherlock, in Victorian times, had treated women the way he treated Janine and Molly in present times, he likely would have been paid a visit by one of the ghost brides too for a bit of reckoning, which is what he realizes.

 

I am not convinced Lady Carmichael killed her husband.  Enough said on that.  (and as a side note, in case you missed it, the Jet captain is played by the same actress - so Sherlock obviously used her face and voice for his descent into a bit of madness).

 

Did anyone notice that when Sherlock woke up on the Reichenbach ledge that his body was in the same position it was  when he was on the pavement after the fall from Barts?  The episode is loaded with visual and story parallels.  It's not only him trying to figure out if Moriarty could still be alive but also a bit of reworking of everything he got wrong in His Last Vow.

 

This is what people are missing who think they should pronounce judgement on it after a single viewing where they have seen but not observed.

[J.P.]

You know what I would love to get?

The script - with annotations which part was written by whom.

This delicious dialogue between Watson and the maid - I think it was Mark, but I would love to know for sure.

[J.P.]

Okay, I think someone here would find it sooner or later (probably as soon as re-viewing TRF), but someone was quicker.

http://sadfilmophile.tumblr.com/post/136736348798/ricolleti-was-in-the-reichenbach-fall-so-emilia

[Slithytove]

You summed up the way I feel about Sherlock, in his modern and Victorian incarnations, and also about John.  I love ACD's Dr Watson - a kind, brave and loyal man - and John in S1 and 2 is a perfect modern version.  He has the virtues of the original but he is also prepared to challenge Sherlock and guide him when he is being insensitive to other people's feelings.  Perfect.  In S3, though...Well, it is understandable that he is angry when he discovers the lie about Sherlock's "death."  More believable than Watson's immediate acceptance and forgiveness.  However, something about him seems to have changed.  He seems harder towards Sherlock, less understanding and, in my opinion, less moral.  I still love the dialogue between the two men, which is still quick and funny, but I hope John in S4 is more like the man he used to be.

 

Quoting T.o.b.y:

To be honest, I don't really care all that much about John being moral. I've never seen him as The Good Guy, I think he's that only in direct comparison with Sherlock and only in certain areas. What bothers me is that I feel the character has lost something, call it subtlety or nuance or what you will. There was something more dry and understated about John during the first two series. Now he leans more towards action hero and that's just not my thing.

 

We've debated the moral issue a lot, regarding HLV, so I won't go on about it except to say that I think it is Dr Watson's reason for existing.  He is isn't just the narrator in ACD's stories, he is the yardstick against which the behaviour of the other characters - including Holmes - is measured.  Watson isn't a genius like Holmes but he is intelligent, humane, courageous and fair.  In short, a decent man.   Holmes does not expect him to be able to solve a mystery but he does trust him to be able to judge right from wrong (as in "The Adventure of the Abbey Grange, for instance.)  I feel that John should fulfil the same role for Sherlock.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Arcadia
Put Toby's remarks in quotes

[Slithytove]

Sorry, can't get the hang of quotes!  The middle paragraph beginning "To be honest" and ending "not my thing" was a quote from T.o.b.y.  I seem to have deleted the little box which showed it was a quote.
 
My only excuse is that I'm old and technology confuses me...


That's okay, fixed it. -- Arcadia

[Arcadia]

You know what I would love to get?

The script - with annotations which part was written by whom.

OMG YES.

 

Okay, I think someone here would find it sooner or later (probably as soon as re-viewing TRF), but someone was quicker.

http://sadfilmophile.tumblr.com/post/136736348798/ricolleti-was-in-the-reichenbach-fall-so-emilia

Hrm. I have to admit I doubt it means anything, but you never know........

[J.P.]

I don't think it's important, but it's funny :D

[Grey]

I'm just worried about Mycroft, he's my favourite!

[J.P.]

Gray, I'm worried too. I just hope that Mark has too much fun playing him... on the other hand, he would also have fun playing Mycroft's ghost tormenting Sherlock in his MP. Please, don't turn it into Game of Thrones

[Arcadia]

Let's just hope he needs the money. :p

[J.P.]

You think he gets more for playing alive Mycroft?

[sittything]

I'm optimistic (mostly) that Mycroft isn't dying.  Mostly b/c I think Gatiss really does love the part.  Although, as others have always pointed out... there's always MP Mycroft.

[Boton]

I don't think Mycroft is dying.  I can't point to anything concrete in the acting or dialogue, but the second time I saw TAB (after I knew what was mind palace and what wasn't) I thought that Sherlock was reflecting on how cold his relationship was with his brother.  That they'd probably laugh and take bets on one another's death, it was so impersonal.  And right now I'm going with that interpretation and thinking that Mycroft isn't in any real danger, especially not from obesity.

[Arcadia]

I mentioned before that I detect a sense of loss in some of the scenes with Mycroft, but I didn't think it meant he (or anyone else, for that matter) was doomed to die. It felt more like ... well, what I thought was, is that Mycroft knows (or thinks) something is coming that he fears will turn Sherlock against him completely.

 

I have nothing whatsoever to go on except the expression on Mycroft's face, though. Well, no ... there's also his repeated attempts (real or imagined) to get Sherlock to turn to him should he ever need anything.