Episode 4.0: The Abominable Bride (alias The Special)

[Carol the Dabbler]

I keep wondering if CAM's guards might have been paid off or otherwise persuaded ahead of time to let Sherlock and John in without frisking them. Or whether they might even have been Mycroft's people, planted there some time ago, just in case.

 

'Cause otherwise that oversight seems very out of character, considering that they'd previously frisked the boys in Sherlock's own apartment!

[Arcadia]

How about this -- maybe the people who do the frisking are only on the perimeter of the property -- I assume there's gates and such where they stop and check people. But since CAM brought John and Sherlock in on his own helicopter, they bypassed that  particular security. And the chief of the guards was really lousy at his job so it didn't occur to him that people arriving in helicopters hadn't been checked already, so he doesn't have anyone stationed at the house to do that particular job......
 
Or maybe the helicopter pilot was supposed to check them, but Sherlock bribed him (he knows what he likes ;) ) to skip the frisk.
 
Or, um... that's it. That's all I got.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Like I said, somebody musta bribed 'em.

[clavery111]

I'm going with "plot hole".  A big glaring plothole. : )

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm going with "plot hole". A big glaring plothole. : )

Sure seems to be -- especially the " glaring" part. I just can't fathom how Moftiss could have missed it. All I can figure is, either they knew damn well it was there but couldn't think of a good way to fix it, or else they figured it might come in handy someday (even if they didn't yet know just how).

[Van Buren Supernova]

Or maybe the helicopter pilot was supposed to check them, but Sherlock bribed him (he knows what he likes ;) ....

:o  :o  :o  :o  :o 

 

 

I also always wonder why the CIA agent failed to detect the spray can.

Hmmm...... maybe Sherlock has secret place to keep weapons, cavity in the chest?

[clavery111]

I know, right!  He was patting Sherlock down and ... 

 

Plus, Sherlock extended that hand/arm down and out to touch Mrs. H's face,wrist, etc.  The can would've fallen outta his sleeve and rolled around on the floor!

[Arcadia]

Oh come now. Sherlock is just that good! :d

[Carol the Dabbler]

Wasn't the spray can in Sherlock's coat pocket ... presumably till right before the agent started to pat him down?

 

Now I can't decide whether to watch more closely next time ... or desist for fear of ruining a really funny scene.

[clavery111]

Wasn't the spray can in Sherlock's coat pocket ... presumably till right before the agent started to pat him down?

 

Now I can't decide whether to watch more closely next time ... or desist for fear of ruining a really funny scene.

 if it was in his pocket the CIA guy would've seen it and/or felt it easily I think?

 

 I seem to remember he wriggles his arm to suggest he is making the can fall out of his sleeve and catches it in his hand just before he klonks the CIA guy with it.  There is an image (I stopped the tape to check this) before this - and before he touches Hudders  - where you see the outline of the Zil can inside his sleeve.  <<< ashamed to say I stopped the tape to check this >>>

[Arcadia]

That was always my impression; it was in his sleeve, where presumably the CIA guy wouldn't think to look for a weapon.

 

Hey, maybe that's how John's gun got into CAM's place! And then Sherlock put it back in John's pocket .... because he's just that good! :p

[Pamela]

 

Wasn't the spray can in Sherlock's coat pocket ... presumably till right before the agent started to pat him down?

 

Now I can't decide whether to watch more closely next time ... or desist for fear of ruining a really funny scene.

 if it was in his pocket the CIA guy would've seen it and/or felt it easily I think?

 

 I seem to remember he wriggles his arm to suggest he is making the can fall out of his sleeve and catches it in his hand just before he klonks the CIA guy with it.  There is an image (I stopped the tape to check this) before this - and before he touches Hudders  - where you see the outline of the Zil can inside his sleeve.  <<< ashamed to say I stopped the tape to check this >>>

 

And I always thought he picked it up from the table!

 

And by the way (just curious), why are we discussing this in this thread?

[Arcadia]

We do seem to be rambling all over the place in this thread. Apparently we've run out of things to say about the Bride. Other than she wasn't very good at applying her lipstick.

 

Rewatched most of it last night, and realized something. After Carmichael is killed, Sherlock has this sort of dream sequence (?) in Mycroft's office, where he starts talking about Moriarty having shot himself. And then he says the body was never recovered.

 

Which body was never recovered? The Victorian one who died at the Falls? Or the modern one who died on the roof?

 

If the modern one, then how did Anderson know that Moriarty was on the roof with Sherlock? Because his theory, and the fan club girl's theory, show that they know Moriarty was there. Or just accurately guessed it....

[clavery111]

I  saw TAB last night too - it was on my local PBS - and that 2nd meeting w/ Mycroft (and the subsequent 221b scene w/ Moriarity) are my fav bits

 

Mycroft says to Sherlock that "when you push a maths professor off a cliff".... the first time, to my knowledge, that Moriarity was referred to as a Professor either in TAB or in any of the episodes of modern Sherlock.  Then Sherlock replies that the body was never recovered.  The juxtaposition of these two sentences, and the reference to "professor", made me assume (or deduce) they referred to the Victorian Moriarity here.  But, you are right!  Maybe it will be a clue to the modern day Moriarity and his body.  Maye we will learn in a future episode that he was not recovered from off the roof,  but I don't think so.  Sherlock and Mycroft had 13 plans in place, with all the personnel needed to implement them, and I'm sure cleaning up the blown off head/removing the dead body of Moriarity was on the to-do list.  Anderson just happened to dream up a scenario that somewhat overlapped with Lazarus, just by happenstance.

 

What I noted about TAB last night was how GROUCHY Sherlock was in most of it...to everyone!  crabby, grouchy, yelling (THERE ARE NO GHOSTS!) and downright unpleasant to be around.  Anyone else struck by that? what could it mean?

 

 

[sfmpco]

Well, I would think he's crabby and even more difficult when he's on drugs.  Because he's heavily on drugs during TAB, and his thinking is not clear.  Don't appall him when he's high.

[Arcadia]

I  saw TAB last night too - it was on my local PBS -

Mine too. Yay WETA! ;)

 

and that 2nd meeting w/ Mycroft (and the subsequent 221b scene w/ Moriarity) are my fav bits

 

Mycroft says to Sherlock that "when you push a maths professor off a cliff".... the first time, to my knowledge, that Moriarity was referred to as a Professor either in TAB or in any of the episodes of modern Sherlock.  Then Sherlock replies that the body was never recovered.  The juxtaposition of these two sentences, and the reference to "professor", made me assume (or deduce) they referred to the Victorian Moriarity here.

What made me think of it was just a sentence or two before, Sherlock was talking about how Moriarty blew his brains out -- which is not the Victorian version! So they are deliberately blending the two stories ... but why? A clue, or just messing with our heads? (No, they wouldn't dare.... )

 

But, you are right!  Maybe it will be a clue to the modern day Moriarity and his body.  Maye we will learn in a future episode that he was not recovered from off the roof,  but I don't think so.  Sherlock and Mycroft had 13 plans in place, with all the personnel needed to implement them, and I'm sure cleaning up the blown off head/removing the dead body of Moriarity was on the to-do list.  Anderson just happened to dream up a scenario that somewhat overlapped with Lazarus, just by happenstance.

 

What I noted about TAB last night was how GROUCHY Sherlock was in most of it...to everyone!  crabby, grouchy, yelling (THERE ARE NO GHOSTS!) and downright unpleasant to be around.  Anyone else struck by that? what could it mean?

If I'm not mistaken, that's somewhat closer to his canon personality, though. Not that he's grouchy, exactly, but so cold and formal that he comes across that way. I found him quite cheerful most of the time actually; he kept cracking jokes!

 

Also, I think that's how Sherlock thinks of himself: "I am the most unpleasant, rude, ignorant and all-round obnoxious arsehole that anyone could possibly have the misfortune to meet." So of course that's how he appears to himself in his mind-palace.

 

I like the modern Sherlock better; he's more nuanced.

[clavery111]

I still found it notable and surprising how TAB-Sherlock was really angry and grouchy -- most often w/ John -- so often.  To me, it was a shocker and quite different from his non-TAB persona.

 

 I try to imagine Mofftiss saying to each other:  Sherlock is very very high in TAB and thus thinking about XYZ is going to make him very grouchy and defensive.  But, I can't quite figure out what the XYZ is... just this nagging feeling that some message is there but it is not getting through to me

[Carol the Dabbler]

What we see of Victorian Sherlock is necessarily via modern Sherlock's mind palace ... whereas most of the time we're presumably seeing what's "really" happening. So the Victorian character is bound to be different, simply because he's Sherlock's view of himself rather than our direct view of him.

[clavery111]

What we see of Victorian Sherlock is necessarily via modern Sherlock's mind palace ... whereas most of the time we're presumably seeing what's "really" happening. So the Victorian character is bound to be different, simply because he's Sherlock's view of himself rather than our direct view of him.

Yeah, that's what I'm puzzled about... the Victorian Sherlock (ie. drugged Sherlock's drug-MP) seemed SO different to me -  in a markedly grouchy way.  What does it mean when drugged modern Sherlock dreams of himself as extremely grumpy/grouchy/ yelling at everyone? and especially at John? Is it just being short-tempered due to drugs? on top of his snobbery/superiority? or something else?

[Arcadia]

I still found it notable and surprising how TAB-Sherlock was really angry and grouchy -- most often w/ John -- so often.  To me, it was a shocker and quite different from his non-TAB persona.

 

 I try to imagine Mofftiss saying to each other:  Sherlock is very very high in TAB and thus thinking about XYZ is going to make him very grouchy and defensive.  But, I can't quite figure out what the XYZ is... just this nagging feeling that some message is there but it is not getting through to me

Well ... when is he grouchy, though? First (I think) is when Carmichael is killed -- Sherlock feels responsible, to an extant, for not saving him, and takes his anger with himself out on John. Or that's how I read it ... he blew up at John because he felt like a failure, and like a lot of people when they're not feeling too good about themselves, he lashed out. (Also John did genuinely screw up.)

 

And the rest of the grouchy scenes are after Mycroft has deduced that he's high, aren't they? So I would say yeah, defensive guilt there, similar to his behavior after being caught high in HLV.

 

All narcissistic behaviors, by the way..... I don't think there's any denying that Sherlock is no saint. I still cling to the belief that there's a good man inside there somewhere, though.

 

What we see of Victorian Sherlock is necessarily via modern Sherlock's mind palace ... whereas most of the time we're presumably seeing what's "really" happening. So the Victorian character is bound to be different, simply because he's Sherlock's view of himself rather than our direct view of him.

I take that to be part of the joke ... in his mind, Sherlock is an even more unsavory person than he actually is -- but that's how he wants to be perceived! He relishes his image as an unprincipled bohemian! Proving once again that he's actually an idiot... :d

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

... the Victorian character is bound to be different, simply because he's Sherlock's view of himself rather than our direct view of him.

I take that to be part of the joke ... in his mind, Sherlock is an even more unsavory person than he actually is -- but that's how he wants to be perceived! He relishes his image as an unprincipled bohemian! Proving once again that he's actually an idiot... :d

Not at all! I don't know whether that self image is intentional on Sherlock's part, but if not (which I consider likely) then it seems unfair to call him an idiot for what his subconscious thinks. But if he has actually chosen to see himself that way (which also seems likely), then it's very sensible (from his "sociopathic" point of view). It's easier to be grumpy and inconsiderate, isn't it? And if that's how he generally behaves, then people won't expect anything better from him, so he won't have to waste energy either trying to be nice (and quite possibly failing anyhow) or else defending himself against charges of being un-nice.

[J.P.]

But it's JOHN! he's unpleasant with!

On the other hand, John is no better. I've wrote it before: We haven't seen John being so unpleasant outside of TAB.
 

Sorry, my net connection broke down, so I have to use a surf-stick and be brief. :(

[Van Buren Supernova]

Surf stick? What is that? :D

I only have access to my phone now, but I don't have cool name for it. XD

 

Regarding Sherlock snaps, "There is No Ghost!", to me is exact parallel with there is no hound. Something impossible, unexplainable, beyond him, that make him very agitated and afraid..that he is losing his mind. It's scary because his mind is what he is.

 

And for him snapping at Anderson, Such As?!?, imho it's just quite normal irritated reaction to people making unreliable conclusion or remarks based on nothing when situation is serious or you are trying to think, and most probably in Sherlock's mind, Anderson does it all the time.

 

And, what is the matter with you this evening?!? I think John is indeed very prying and what make it worse for Sherlock, most of the things he says actually hit home.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Surf stick? What is that? :D

I only have access to my phone now, but I don't have cool name for it. XD

I'd never heard of 'em either, so I googled. Apparently surfstick is the German name for a type of USB device that plugs into your phone and gives you prepaid internet access. Nearly all the sites that came up were in German, but I finally found one English-language forum (based in Germany). I still don't know what the things might be called in English.

[Arcadia]

 

 

... the Victorian character is bound to be different, simply because he's Sherlock's view of himself rather than our direct view of him.

I take that to be part of the joke ... in his mind, Sherlock is an even more unsavory person than he actually is -- but that's how he wants to be perceived! He relishes his image as an unprincipled bohemian! Proving once again that he's actually an idiot... :D

Not at all! I don't know whether that self image is intentional on Sherlock's part, but if not (which I consider likely) then it seems unfair to call him an idiot for what his subconscious thinks. But if he has actually chosen to see himself that way (which also seems likely), then it's very sensible (from his "sociopathic" point of view). It's easier to be grumpy and inconsiderate, isn't it? And if that's how he generally behaves, then people won't expect anything better from him, so he won't have to waste energy either trying to be nice (and quite possibly failing anyhow) or else defending himself against charges of being un-nice.

 

That sounds like just the kind convoluted logic Sherlock would use.... :p