Episode 4.3 "The Final Problem"

[Shadow Dweller]

^ Exactly! There're other ways to extract information that doesn't involve over the top melodrama. One must know when to indulge our inner Thespian and when to choose to turn it off.

 

By the way, did you make the picture yourself, J.P.? :D

[J.P.]

Nope. It's from Tumblr and there is a second part to it:

[Shadow Dweller]

*snickers* What an apt description of what might comes out from that harebrained-scenario.

[Arcadia]

What power play are you referring to, Shadow? Putting John in peril?

[Arcadia]

Except that Sherlock knows Mycroft well; well enough to know that wouldn't happen? And maybe he had the foresight to put some armor on the clown. But the cartoon is funny, I thought of that too. That whole scene was preposterous ... what would it take to set up the bleeding portraits? Ugh.

 

Anyway, I assume once Mycroft found out Eurus was on the loose, the last thing on his mind was punishing John and Sherlock. At that point he needed their help more than anything else. And since he's the one that (sort of) caused the problem to begin with.... Pot. Kettle. Black.

[J.P.]

But they ruined family portraits!

[Shadow Dweller]

If Sherlock know Mycroft well enough to guess how he would react, that makes what he did even worse than if he was just being a spoiled brat as usual.

 

What could two men do compared with the kind of resources Mycroft could pull in? Sherlock only could serve as a bait at best, the decision to storm the fortress with only the three of them is too forced and doesn't make sense at all.

[Shadow Dweller]

Playing on Sherlock's insatiable curiosity, his tendency to not take warnings seriously if it doesn't burn him yet, his longing for external acknowledgement, etc. At the flight of the dead Mycroft's precise words is, " In the end, are you really so obvious? Because this was textbook: the promise of love, the pain of loss, the joy of redemption; then give him a puzzle ... and watch him dance." Put the bait on the hook, throw the line, wriggle the bait a bit then pull it away just slightly out of his reach but still offering hope for him to capture it with some efforts.

[Arcadia]

Well, it doesn't make sense to me either, but the plot hinges on it, so it must have made sense to them. :P

 

How about this? Mycroft insisted it be just the three of them because he didn't want anyone outside the family to know? He's made worse decisions....

[Arcadia]

Okay, so how's this answer: Every hero has his weakness or he wouldn't be interesting. If Sherlock stopped being curious, there wouldn't be much point in watching him, would there?

 

Or: He is what he is, you can no more stop him from chasing the clue than you can stop a cat from chasing the string.

 

Or.... there must be some other fitting platitude. :P

[J.P.]

They couldn't reveal themselves because Eurus would known they were coming. Which didn't work, obviously.

 

Erm… wrong thread again. :P

[T.o.b.y]

Mycroft couldn't know that the people working at Sherrinford were no longer controlling the place. He must have thought that once they were there, he would have plenty of backup. And yes, I do think that the fewer people knew about Eurus, the better, so ideally, it would have been only him and Sherlock breaking in (and not officially visiting because they wanted to find out where the security flaw was), but Sherlock insisted on involving John (that must certainly have been a surprise for Mycroft) so there were three of them.

[Shadow Dweller]

If what Mycroft intended is to minimize the people who knows about their unofficial visit then it would make sense if the whole thing conducted incognito from the beginning to end without have to play a stranded fisherman at all. Such as staff rotation from the outside. He knows that almost everyone who spend time with Eurus becomes reprogrammed, and yet he still put too much faith on the fortress' staff. The whole thing smells like Sherlock's impulsiveness in action and Mycroft's inability to say no to his overindulged sibling.

[Shadow Dweller]

Exasperating to watch the same thing get recycled repeatedly. By the way, The 'Psyche Behind The Character' thread needs our attention now that we have all season 4's materials. ;)

[Shadow Dweller]

By the way, Sherlock already hit the back of his head against hard surface several times, the last is at Sherrinford. o.o

[T.o.b.y]

Rewatching this episode. The Baker Street duo is lucky that it is Mycroft they are messing with instead of me, my reaction for their action in the house won't be that benign. Really tempted to ignore my own principle about no corporal punishment and spank both grown men to the last inch of their life for the stupid game.

 

Edit: Wrong thread, this should be on the s4-3

 

Not any more, I have moved your post and the ones that followed it here.

[Boton]

 

The whole thing smells like Sherlock's impulsiveness in action and Mycroft's inability to say no to his overindulged sibling.

 

Mycroft admits as much at the end of HLV, when he claims he's not given to episodes of brotherly compassion (or whatever he says).  Somehow, he views his actions regarding Eurus as being overly emotional, and he thinks he's not going to make the same mistake with Sherlock.  Of course, he's completely emotional with Sherlock anyway, as the whole of S4 shows.

 

Can you imagine what must have been going through Mycroft's mind between Appledore and whenever in S4 he finally figured out that Sherlock is sane?  There had to be some time there where he thought that both of his siblings had homicidal tendencies and that he was ultimately going to have both of them permanently in jail.  No wonder the man tries/tried to shut out all emotion; at one point, it must have looked to him like every time either of his siblings so much as thought about having an emotion, it turned them psychotic.

[Shadow Dweller]

Agree to most of Boton's points except for the 'finally figured out that Sherlock is sane' part. Sherlock always seems to appears as sane, only with poor emotional control. Mycroft was used to Sherlock's tantrums and we can even see it on S4 when he only watched from the door as Sherlock destroyed the coffin. If Sherlock is to be locked permanently in jail it is not because of insanity but when he finally did something and crossed the wrong people, even big brother's influence cannot get him out of it. Mycroft truly carried the weight of the world on his shoulders and has been doing it since still a child himself (and people wondered why I don't sympathize with Sherlock instead of him :P ).

[gerry]

I agree Shadow. I have always found Sherlock rather petulant, especially in regards to Mycroft. Considering how often Mycroft has had to bail him out of trouble or protect Sherlock from himself, it showed a lack of self awareness on Sherlock's part.

[Boton]

Agree to most of Boton's points except for the 'finally figured out that Sherlock is sane' part. Sherlock always seems to appears as sane, only with poor emotional control. Mycroft was used to Sherlock's tantrums and we can even see it on S4 when he only watched from the door as Sherlock destroyed the coffin. If Sherlock is to be locked permanently in jail it is not because of insanity but when he finally did something and crossed the wrong people, even big brother's influence cannot get him out of it. Mycroft truly carried the weight of the world on his shoulders and has been doing it since still a child himself (and people wondered why I don't sympathize with Sherlock instead of him :P ).

 

And I mostly agree with you.  :P

 

I think Mycroft fairly quickly figured out that Sherlock had crossed the wrong people and that there was another mess he needed to clean up, but I think there had to have been a moment -- maybe only while he was in the helicopter at Appledore -- that he thought, "oh, my God, it's Eurus all over again."  

[J.P.]

I think the fear always was there. That Sherlock might snap and cross the line into madness. I also can imagine that Mycroft was wondering the same about himself. Poor chap.

 

As for drug use - I did believe that Sherlock was only a user - until TAB. (But I still don't believe he was high on the tarmac!) Anyway, it wouldn't be anything unusual for people with traumatic past, no matter if they remember it or not (I know a woman who didn't remember the abuse until she was in her fifties), because no matter how deep hidden the memories, the brain forgets nothing.

Plus I think Sherlock rebelled against Mycroft's overbearing supervision. Which is also quite common.

 

And I also think that the same fear stopped the whole family from telling Sherlock the truth when he was older. It probably might have been healing (because it obviously was in the end), but you never know… As I wrote somewhere else, nowadays even psychiatrists don't try to reveal hidden traumas at any cost, because it tends to make things worse (I don't really understand, why it is better to live with shadows without even knowing them, but… eh, well…) So I do understand why they were too scared to try, even if it would make at least Mycroft's life much easier.

[Boton]

I think the fear always was there. That Sherlock might snap and cross the line into madness. I also can imagine that Mycroft was wondering the same about himself. Poor chap.

 

As for drug use - I did believe that Sherlock was only a user - until TAB. (But I still don't believe he was high on the tarmac!) Anyway, it wouldn't be anything unusual for people with traumatic past, no matter if they remember it or not (I know a woman who didn't remember the abuse until she was in her fifties), because no matter how deep hidden the memories, the brain forgets nothing.

Plus I think Sherlock rebelled against Mycroft's overbearing supervision. Which is also quite common.

 

And I also think that the same fear stopped the whole family from telling Sherlock the truth when he was older. It probably might have been healing (because it obviously was in the end), but you never know… As I wrote somewhere else, nowadays even psychiatrists don't try to reveal hidden traumas at any cost, because it tends to make things worse (I don't really understand, why it is better to live with shadows without even knowing them, but… eh, well…) So I do understand why they were too scared to try, even if it would make at least Mycroft's life much easier.

 

I think Sherlock was pretty much always "just" a user, not an addict, although I think its likely that in TAB he had just given up and decided to numb the pain of departure with no thought to the consequences -- he thought he was a dead man when the plane took off anyway, so why exercise caution?

 

I've been doing some reading about paradoxical reactions to opioids (because unfortunately, I'm one of those people), and, for some people, opioids act like an upper rather than a downer.  It would cast an interesting light on Sherlock if he were also a person with paradoxical reactions, so that instead of him having an upper and a downer in his arsenal (cocaine and heroine), he actually had two separate uppers.  Just a thought, not supported by anything in the show.

 

I can definitely see a family not opting to clarify/expose Sherlock's hidden memories.  It was quite a traumatic event, and perhaps they were initially fearful that they had "lost" him as well.  If he emerged with a resolution that Redbeard was a pet and that he had no sister, why disturb that?  Perhaps they wanted to tell him when he was older, but why rock the psychological boat, especially if the parents had also more or less submerged the memory of Eurus?

[Shadow Dweller]

Kindness, as defined by Mycroft and uncle Rudy? Then Mr. and Mrs. Holmes doesn't have right to chastise Mycroft for hiding that secret for so long, not without becoming hypocrites themselves. No wonder Mycroft becomes like that. The process of closing oneself from the others always take a long time and peppered by numerous rejection and betrayal from people who by their station in life should be to whom a child can turn to for his problems, namely parents and caretakers. Sherlock is the opposite, he looks like someone who had stayed for too long on the safe cradle of family, mummy's darling boy as revealed at the end of this episode.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

To quote Gerry & bring this discussion to the TFP to prevent a BC News thread hijack: "I see Sherlock playing violin with Eurus but I don't know why he would given what's she done to him, I'm told they're happy as clams but I have no idea how their lives have changed that would make them that happy. That's the best way I can explain it."

 

How I took Sherlock playing with Eurus is Sherlock realizing that all along his sister wanted to play with him, and to help stay more sane, she needs to play the violin and playing it with Sherlock is like killing 2 birds with 1 stone. Her mental health is more stable even if she would never be fully safe on the outside.

 

As for Sherlock being willing to play with her otherwise in spite of what she did to him, we don't know how much time has passed from the fiasco at Sherrinford to what Sherlock comes back to visit with family. It's possible he may have forgiven her enough to be able to play music with her.

[gerry]

As for Sherlock being willing to play with her otherwise in spite of what she did to him, we don't know how much time has passed from the fiasco at Sherrinford to what Sherlock comes back to visit with family. It's possible he may have forgiven her enough to be able to play music with her.

Exactly but this is actually my problem with the end. For a likely series finale they left so much up to supposition and guessing. The other part of the montage and narration was that annoying is that it was like the only important or meaningful relationship of Sherlock's per the writers was Watson with Eurus being second and Eurus just showed up in season 4. What about Molly, Mycroft and Lestrade? All were afterthoughts except for a 2 second snippet.

 

God I really hate that ending.