What about Sherlock's feelings for Molly?

[Carol the Dabbler]

I've never had high hopes for this ship, as I've said on here before.  But would an outright denial make me throw in the towel?  Would I still enjoy the doomed ship for what it is ... a nice idea?   I'm not sure if I'd be more upset about Sue and Steven's comments if I had ever had any real hope?

 

Sherlolly isn't quite my cup of tea (those I'm certainly not opposed to the idea).  I'm more rooting for Molly and Greg to get together.  But I'd very much NOT want to know whether Moftiss have that in mind or not, for at least two reasons:

 

1.  They may not know yet, so any immediate pronouncements might be unnecessarily heartening or disappointing.

 

2.  I wouldn't even want to fire up my crystal ball, because there would go the fun of conjecturing.  I'd much prefer to keep just about everything within the realm of the possible, so that A] I can enjoy being surprised when [whatever] happens, and B] I can enjoy everybody's fanfic ideas in the meantime, without having to ignore the stark reality of what's actually going to happen on the show.

[sfmpco]

Well, I don't ever see any big romantic story line for Sherlock.  I could almost definitely say that it will never be the main focus of a story.  But that doesn't mean that Sherlock won't experience that sort of thing.  However, since Sherlock has traditionally not been involved in romantic entanglements, I don't see Moftiss blatantly breaking with that tradition.

 

On the other hand, if S4 has any romance for Sherlock, I would suspect that it would be handled very subtly as a non-issue.  Look how they treated John and Mary at the beginning - we were just presented them as a couple.  No fanfare, all the romantic stuff had occurred off-screen during Sherlock's faked death.  

 

They have said relationships will be deepened, but they didn't say whose.   

 

And Molly is still around.  She's been in every episode except HOB.  She's been engaged and broke it off - because she was still burning a candle for Sherlock.  I do think their friendship will be deepened in S4.  Beyond that statement, I couldn't say in what direction.

[Arcadia]

Aw, Michael Phelps is crying as they play the national anthem.
 
I agree with sfmpco, if any romance for Sherlock occurs (which I don't believe will happen), it's going to be more implied than overt. Because the show's written by, for and about boys, and they don't like that mushy stuff. :P They want to go on adventures, not dabble in ... ugh ... feelings.

 

When I was a kid it wasn't uncommon for the heroes of TV shows to be loners. Why it's such a big deal now, I don't get.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I've always found the "Sherlolly" ship kind of sweet, because Molly "represents every girl of a certain age who wants to run her fingers through his curls" ...

Eh.. by certain age you mean 12-80? XD

 

Well, I don't ever see any big romantic story line for Sherlock.  I could almost definitely say that it will never be the main focus of a story.  But that doesn't mean that Sherlock won't experience that sort of thing.  

This..definitely.

 

I am a platonic shipper through and through for Sherlock.

But if he has something with someone someday, my first choice is Molly.

[sfmpco]

I think Molly will come under some sort of threat in S4, but I've been saying that even before we ever saw  a trailer.  And in some way I think Sherlock will prove his friendship to her by protecting her (not necessarily rescuing, just protecting), because he can say she was the one who mattered the most, but I think he will prove it, and that is enough to deepen their friendship.  But they have a rough history, and she has no problem telling him off  and setting him straight, so I expect a bumpy ride, especially if he's back on the drugs.

[Arcadia]

 

I've always found the "Sherlolly" ship kind of sweet, because Molly "represents every girl of a certain age who wants to run her fingers through his curls" ...

Eh.. by certain age you mean 12-80? XD

 

 

Ye-P.

[bedelia1984]

I think Molly will come under some sort of threat in S4, but I've been saying that even before we ever saw  a trailer.  And in some way I think Sherlock will prove his friendship to her by protecting her (not necessarily rescuing, just protecting), because he can say she was the one who mattered the most, but I think he will prove it, and that is enough to deepen their friendship.  But they have a rough history, and she has no problem telling him off  and setting him straight, so I expect a bumpy ride, especially if he's back on the drugs.

 

I'm so looking forward to seeing them have scenes, I've pretty much resigned myself to going along wherever the narrative takes us... and I agree the threat seems almost inevitable, as does the conflict. I would like them to veer away from the drugs storyline for Sherlock, only because it's so depressing to me. I'd rather he found some new way to annoy Molly. It will be nice to see how their friendship has changed, in any event. Even though TAB was a bit outside the normal show, you could see some interesting subtle shifts in the Sherlock/ Molly (and Sherlock/ Women in general) dynamics, which I just can't wait to see explored further onscreen.

[T.o.b.y]

I definitely do not "ship" these two characters, but I must say, the chemistry between the actors is amazing and they really do bring out the best in one another. Molly and Sherlock have lots of absolutely amazing scenes - especially in The Reichenbach Fall and in The Empty Hearse.

[Arcadia]

That's true, isn't it? I hadn't really thought of it that way before, how beautifully the actors play off of each other. Interesting. No wonder people ship their characters.
 
I will speculate that Molly will finally lose her hero worship of Sherlock, see him for what he really is (not a nice man), and possibly even turn hostile towards him. I have nothing whatsoever to base this on, that's just the way I would take their story if I were writing it ... because that would put Sherlock in the position of having to put some effort into winning her trust again, instead of just taking her for granted. Because Molly deserves that much from him, at least. And then of course she'd fall in love with him all over again, because hey, who can resist him? :D

[T.o.b.y]

Maybe I idolize Molly too much, but my interpretation is that she actually has a very clear view of who and what Sherlock really is. More so than anybody, perhaps. She has a crush on him, yes, and she knows it, but she can see above and beyond that.

 

I think she really loves him. Aside from her infatuation, there is a very pure and wise kind of true love in her that wants Sherlock to be the best possible version of himself. I think she sees through his bluster and drama and recognizes the flaws and vulnerability they are meant to cover up.

 

Also, unlike John who is so, so concerned about Sherlock being The Great Sherlock Holmes, she seems to care mostly about just Sherlock the person. If he wasn't a brilliant, famous detective, she would love him all the same.

 

I don't think they would be a good couple, and I think she knows that. But she loves him all the same.

 

And I love her, obviously. Dear Molly.

[sittything]

Maybe I idolize Molly too much, but my interpretation is that she actually has a very clear view of who and what Sherlock really is. More so than anybody, perhaps. She has a crush on him, yes, and she knows it, but she can see above and beyond that.

 

I think she really loves him. Aside from her infatuation, there is a very pure and wise kind of true love in her that wants Sherlock to be the best possible version of himself. I think she sees through his bluster and drama and recognizes the flaws and vulnerability they are meant to cover up.

 

Also, unlike John who is so, so concerned about Sherlock being The Great Sherlock Holmes, she seems to care mostly about just Sherlock the person. If he wasn't a brilliant, famous detective, she would love him all the same.

 

I don't think they would be a good couple, and I think she knows that. But she loves him all the same.

 

And I love her, obviously. Dear Molly.

 

I 2nd all of this minus maybe that 2nd to last line.   ;)

[kimber8ada]

I would love to see Molly and Sherlock together and think they could be a believable couple. They have a lot in common and I agree that Molly understands Sherlock pretty well. But while I'm hopeful, I'm also realistic that it won't happen. But I can dream can't I?

 

Forgot to say I agree LB and BC have amazing chemistry. I can't tell you how many times I've watched their scenes at the train guys place in TEH. They are fantastic!

[sfmpco]

I think Molly HAS lost her hero worship.  Her slaps in HLV should have proven that.  She expects more out of him than what he's done just to prove something for a case.  She says he has "beautiful gifts," and that's probably not a way that anyone ever in his life has described his gifts.  Even he probably doesn't see them as "beautiful."  She sees and believes in the man he could be and should be, and when he throws it away on drugs, she lets him have it.  But notice that we don't see her again (discounting the MP sequences) until she is questioned and reveals that he uses her flat as a bolt hole.  That's it for Molly in the episode.  Have her words hit home?  We don't know.  There is no more interaction between them in HLV.  When we get to TAB, her interaction in the morgue is feisty and confrontational.  She puts up with nothing from him.  That's how he sees her.  And at the end of TAB when she is dressed as a woman, she is near him and is framed in warm light.  That's how he sees her.  Near him and with great warmth.  Janine, meanwhile, does not stand out from the other women.  Only Molly.  She has never betrayed him, abused him, used him.  According to her blog she was always aware when he was trying to use her to get something.

 

If something more is between them in S4, it will be handled as a non-issue.

 

And for those of you who think it is a terrible pairing, I suggest you try writing a little fan faction with them together.  It's not always easy, but they work just fine.

[sittything]

I'm pretty sure I only ship certain characters b/c of the chemistry of the actors.   See... it's not my fault.   :P

[Van Buren Supernova]

I would love to see Molly and Sherlock together and think they could be a believable couple. They have a lot in common and I agree that Molly understands Sherlock pretty well. But while I'm hopeful, I'm also realistic that it won't happen. But I can dream can't I?

Yes of course.

 

Why my first choice is Molly is because I think Sherlock can take off his mask and his exoskeleton with her. He can feel safe and vulnerable, doesn't need to be consistently clever and constantly trying to impress her (like to Mycroft and John), that is nice and he needs that.

 

It sort of nice image of Sherlock comfortably sleeping soundly in Molly's place and maybe in kitty pajama she bought for him, before he faces the rest of the day being all mysterious and putting up his collar and armed with his exoskeleton to go out there.

[sfmpco]

Although to play the Devil's advocate, I have been in Molly's place - the supportive one, the one who believes everything for him and about him and his future... and the piece of eye candy is what was taken instead (and six weeks later he got divorced... how's that eye-candy thing working out for you, bud???? - but I digress...).  Anyhow, if something more were to develop in S4, I would hope that he wouldn't just pursue eye-candy.  I hope he sees the true value in further developing something with the one who knows him the best.

[sfmpco]

He has a public persona and a private persona, and even an ultra private persona.

[Arcadia]

Eh, you lot are turning all mushy on me. (I love it.)
 
I guess my problem is, I know someone who is in love with a narcissist (a term that I think, unfortunately, fits Sherlock all too well) ( https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder ) and while he has his cute, sweet moments, by and large he treats her like s**t. She is someone close to me, so it's very upsetting ... and I just think, realistically, that is what would happen to Molly. Narcissists can't help it, they are the way they are, and they can have their good points. But they will never be able to place anyone else above themselves, and I hate seeing women accept their assigned role as a lesser form of being in this kind of relationship. But accept it they must, or endure endless conflict. Or leave.
 
I think that's why Sherlock's best fit appears (to me) to be Irene or Moriarty; they can handle him. They enjoy the fight and the one-upmanship, and they're good at it. I can't see Molly being like that. Putting up with it fondly, or out of loyalty, maybe, but not enjoying it. I guess it's naïve of me to think a relationship should be enjoyable, but there you are.
 
But I think Irene (and definitely Jim!) would make Sherlock a worse man, not a better one, so I don't ship that either. John can handle him too, but I don't think he enjoys the fight, he just finds it necessary in order to keep them both grounded. Molly? The only way I can see her handling Sherlock is if she becomes yet another "psychopath", and then what's the point of her? She's supposed to be the ordinary one, it does no good for Sherlock's evolution into a human if she switches to the "god" side.
 
And yes, yes, I know Sherlock has sacrificed himself for John. But so far those sacrifices have been motivated, as I see it, by "what I want for John." He still hasn't progressed to "what John wants." I wait to see if he can, but realistically, I don't think it's possible. But this show's more about wish fulfillment than reality, isn't it? So we'll see.

[Arcadia]

I just realized that I missed a couple of posts before scribbling my rant, and some of you think Sherlock is wearing a mask that only Molly, so far, can see through. Hmmmm. Well, that's a more charitable analysis of him than mine; he's not a narcissist, he just pretends to be one to protect himself. ( ? ) (I'm tempted to put in at this point, "well, gee, what a big chicken cry-baby!" but I will refrain. :d ) Okay, so I can buy that notion. Certainly it's a more hopeful pov than mine.

 

I just spent about 14 hours with the above-mentioned narcissist, plus innumerable phone calls for several days afterwards, and I guess I'm still feeling a little bruised and tender from the rough handling (verbal, folks. No worries. And I give as good as I get when I deem it necessary. As a result, he thinks I'm soooo cool, the jerk.) So perhaps I'm projecting a bit too much onto Our Hero. At any rate, I still adore you, Sherlock. Now be a good boy and show Molly you deserve her.

[bedelia1984]

Eh, you lot are turning all mushy on me. (I love it.)

 

I guess my problem is, I know someone who is in love with a narcissist (a term that I think, unfortunately, fits Sherlock all too well) ( https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder ) and while he has his cute, sweet moments, by and large he treats her like s**t. She is someone close to me, so it's very upsetting ... and I just think, realistically, that is what would happen to Molly. Narcissists can't help it, they are the way they are, and they can have their good points. But they will never be able to place anyone else above themselves, and I hate seeing women accept their assigned role as a lesser form of being in this kind of relationship. But accept it they must, or endure endless conflict. Or leave.

 

I think that's why Sherlock's best fit appears (to me) to be Irene or Moriarty; they can handle him. They enjoy the fight and the one-upmanship, and they're good at it. I can't see Molly being like that. Putting up with it fondly, or out of loyalty, maybe, but not enjoying it. I guess it's naïve of me to think a relationship should be enjoyable, but there you are.

 

 

I have a totally different read on Sherlock, I guess, because I don't see him as a narcissist at all. I have read him being described as on the Autistic/ Aspergers spectrum also, and I can see aspects he has in common in terms of both narcissism and autism, but perhaps due to BC's wonderfully complex portrayal, I think he's beyond either definition. I don't see him as self-adoring, far from it- the self destructive drug addict side of him seems laced with self loathing. I also don't believe he puts himself first all the time- and yes, as you mention he is able to put John first- but more than that he puts the mystery first- he's more puzzle-centred than self centred from my viewpoint.

 

When he really hurts Molly, say at Christmas, and then again about Jim being gay, and finally his digs about her broken engagement- the first two times he seems genuinely clueless, more intent on solving the puzzle of why she's so dressed up, or what Jim is really up to (nice try, but no cigar), but not maliciously manipulating her, as a true narcissist would. He does manipulate her through her crush, for professional gain, but to a lesser and more forgiveable (in my eyes) degree.

 

Sorry Arcadia, you updated as I was typing, but I agree about the cry-baby bit wholeheartedly. And my sympathy on dealing with the Narcissist, they aren't at all pretty up close, in real life at any rate.

 

 

Although to play the Devil's advocate, I have been in Molly's place - the supportive one, the one who believes everything for him and about him and his future... and the piece of eye candy is what was taken instead (and six weeks later he got divorced... how's that eye-candy thing working out for you, bud???? - but I digress...).  Anyhow, if something more were to develop in S4, I would hope that he wouldn't just pursue eye-candy.  I hope he sees the true value in further developing something with the one who knows him the best.

 

Because your eye-candy comment immediately makes me think of Irene... I was really disappointed with how the show portrayed Sherlock/ Irene, mostly because to me they totally blurred the lines between attraction and something deeper. If they had kept it as a physical interest between them, I would have totally believed it, and I think they could have had fun with that. But I don't believe either character to be the type to suddenly fall for each other, especially Irene (being the way more experienced of the two). The fact that Sherlock read her pulse as being elevated to me was a sign that yes they had chemistry, but when she used him as her password, to me that was trying to make her seem a sort of romantic schoolgirl type too, which to me is just wrong. 

 

About the chemistry between the actors- I think what I like the most about LB and BC is that they are both attractive but in a quirky way, with an inner intelligence that translates to their performances. They are fantastically matched. I think Molly was written as a character with a crush on someone out of her league, but onscreen LB just came across as an equal. I know others see them differently, though.

[T.o.b.y]

I don't think Sherlock and Molly would be a terrible couple so much as that Sherlock would be a terrible boyfriend - to anybody.

 

I love Sherlock dearly and I don't see him as a Bad Person, but he does treat people like shit, and particularly people he loves. Look at what he's done to John. Plus, sorry, he's Sherlock Holmes and to me Sherlock Holmes and a traditional romantic relationship are mutually exclusive. He doesn't want one and if he did, he would cease to be himself. I have always thought of him as some form of asexual, but I could imagine an on-and-off tempestuous affair with Irene for him. Or a friends with benefits kind of setup with Janine (I certainly wouldn't like that, I don't like Janine all that much and I do not want her in Sherlock's bed at all, but I am not necessarily talking about what I would find appealing here, only what I consider believable for the characters based on what I have seen of them so far). But Molly? Okay, she's a bit of an extraordinary being too, but my impression is that she would be happiest with a more committed, more steady and more domestic relationship than Sherlock could offer long-term, even if he tried.

 

I really want Molly to be happy and I think she deserves the best possible life, love, family and everything. I also really like high-functioning sociopath impossible extraordinary Sherlock and do not wish for him to change much. I consider a relationship between them impossible without compromising either her happiness or his personality. And that is why I don't "ship" them. But like I said, I do think they have great chemistry and they have their own little bittersweet lovestory going on that I very much appreciate.

[Arcadia]

I think Molly was written as a character with a crush on someone out of her league, but onscreen LB just came across as an equal. I know others see them differently, though.

 

Yeah, I in no way saw them as equals at first, but I think Molly has slowly laid claim to that status. And Sherlock has slowly learned to respect her, even though she comes at the world from a different place than he does. I've said from the beginning, what I'd really like to see them become is true friends.

[sittything]

I've probably posted this before but I've been stuck on rewatching it the last few days...

 

 

 

[sittything]

Sappy videos aside, I'm really excited to see what they have in store for Sherlock and Molly in S4.  Not in the sense of.... THIS IS IT!  THEY'RE GOING CANON!  But b/c it seemed she filmed a good deal outside the studio (for Molly) so for my own self-serving reasons I'm hoping we get more Molly.   I'm still hoping that's her apartment in the trailer even if that puts her in danger.  I want to see more of Molly and Molly's life outside the morgue.

 

I am also still tickled pink over S3 and how things changed for Sherlock and Molly with regards to their relationship.  S1... poor Molly was just there in the background, almost a joke for all her attention and crush on Sherlock.  S2... she gained a bit of ground by getting him to apologize and then him going to her for help.  S3... that was the first season I felt we really got a good look at how much Molly means to Sherlock, even as just a friend, plus at this point I feel like the playing field is leveled between them.  It's clear Sherlock has the utmost trust and respect for her, and as a Molly fan I'm all...

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think [...] Sherlock's best fit appears (to me) to be Irene or Moriarty; they can handle him. They enjoy the fight and the one-upmanship, and they're good at it. I can't see Molly being like that. Putting up with it fondly, or out of loyalty, maybe, but not enjoying it. I guess it's naïve of me to think a relationship should be enjoyable, but there you are.

 

But I think Irene (and definitely Jim!) would make Sherlock a worse man, not a better one, so I don't ship that either. John can handle him too, but I don't think he enjoys the fight, he just finds it necessary in order to keep them both grounded. Molly? The only way I can see her handling Sherlock is if she becomes yet another "psychopath", and then what's the point of her?

 

You're forgetting Janine.  I think she's definitely got the moxie to handle Sherlock, and I think he recognizes that and respects her for it.  They got off to a bumpy start, but they dealt with that like calm, rational adults (rather than with a screaming match), so there's every hope for a reconciliation.  Unlike T.o.b.y, I think they could turn out to be a good match for one another.  True, Janine doesn't appear to be a raving genius, but one of those per household is probably quite sufficient.  (And of course it ain't gonna happen in any case.  This is Sherlock Holmes we're talking about, after all.)