Speedy's Cafe - General Chat about anything you like!

[Arcadia]

There's a huge (well, biggest I've ever seen, anyhow) array of windmills in northwestern Indiana, visible from Interstate 65 between Indianapolis and Chicago.  Dunno how many, must be at least a hundred, and there may be more that aren't visible from the road.

 

Added:  Here it is.

 

That's actually rather beautiful. I sort of regret them putting them on top of mountains and hills, sure changes the skyline. I wouldn't be surprised if that's one reason we don't have them here ... Virginia makes a mint off of its mountain skylines, wouldn't want to mar them.

 

There's a huge array somewhere between here and Maine, though. They look cool, yet at the same time I can understand why people don't want to see them everywhere. They need to make them more productive so it doesn't take as many of them, or something.

[Pseudonym]

I know there are plans to put them out to sea, so they aren't visible from land. I don't mind them on the mountains here, but there are quite a few areas around here classed as 'areas of outstanding natural beauty' and protected as national parks so the prettiest tourist magnets parts are protected. 

[Van Buren Supernova]

I always think they are beautiful, and very happy when I visited one, luckily I didn't see any birds.

The sound didn't annoy me, but maybe because I was just visiting.

And Doe, nice pic on the older type of windmill. Will love to see that one, one day.

 

The sea would be strategic for wind but the amount of structures needed would kill a lot of sealife.

 

[Pseudonym]

I don't think it does actually. I had a look on wikipedia, and other that the risk to birds as already discussed it says concerns are:

 

*The underwater noise associated with the installation process of driving monopile turbines into the seabed;

*The physical presence of offshore wind farms altering the behavior of marine mammals, fish, and seabirds with attraction or avoidance;

*The potential disruption of the nearfield and farfield marine environment from large offshore wind projects.

 

So it seems more about the behaviour of creatures more than the actual killing of them. Apparently we already have 26 offshore wind farms - I had no idea there were so many! And another 3 under construction. 

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

The behaviour of ones that are still alive..!

Most probably the project would destroy significant amount of ecosystem and make it inhabitable for at least a couple of years. Then bits by bits, painstakingly slow, it could come back.

Eventually it's possible too that they could thrive. Some of the great diving sites are actually under jetty or oil rigs, however it takes forever to reach that level. And considering no future disruption or climate changes.

[Pseudonym]

I don't know, I'm guessing there must have been a lot of studies done on the various areas before they were granted planning permission. I saw the London one was denied permission to expand over concerns of a particular species of bird being too adversely affected. 

 

Did you see that horrible story about the two guys doing maintenance work on top of a turbine when it caught fire? There was no hope of saving them so basically they had to make a choice between staying and burning to death, or jumping.  :(

[Van Buren Supernova]

I think, the inconvenient truth is, the permission will be granted, if they consider having them get more advantages. The amount of destruction and impact would be about the same for those approved or rejected projects. There are possibility that it's built on 'barren' sealife area, which reduce the impact, but maybe I'm too sceptical that environment is the main factor that the decisions are based on, especially underwater welfare. It's only quite recently that people started to pay serious attentions. Older project, nah. Can't see it, don't feel it.

 

I didn't read the story. Those are horrible choices, but I would jump everytime. Fire is too nasty. Poor them.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

And is the noise from them a problem?

 

I've heard that before about what they do to birds. Always a downside to everything, dang it. Equivalent exchange, phoo on you!

Haven't notice much in the way of noise from the retail location. The other one maybe once or twice in the rare occasion I've driven by.

 

Also if they ran the turbines more often, then they could use less. Just need to have proper storage of the generated energy.

[Carol the Dabbler]

One place that Alex and I visit in the UK has some offshore windmills, way out where they're barely visible, and I've heard there were some objections from local folks, saying they spoiled the view. Guess if you've spent a ton of money on a nice seaside home, you'd like to keep it nice.

 

I find the ones up north of here kind of picturesque and hypnotically soothing -- but no idea how I'd feel if they were in my own neighborhood.

[Arcadia]

That was one of many heart-rending stories from 9/11 ... people were jumping out of the World Trade Center in order to avoid being burned alive. Horrible choice. The kind of thing I find it hard to forget about. :(

[J.P.]

Well, there is no such thing as a "clean" energy.

 

The windmills do make noise, which is in the very low frequency range, it's more like large turbulences. Not audible but still not good for anything living around. As for visibility: there were mills positioned in a way that they caused shadows, that were constantly flickering in people's windows when the sun was shining behind them. Like beebing disco lights in slow motion. I do understand when nobody wants those things around.

 

Maybe a windy desert would be a good place for them, but again, there will surely be something that they will be affecting.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Right, everything's connected, so everything affects everything -- we just need to decide which effects we're willing and able to live with and which we're not.

 

It seems to be human nature to make up our minds ahead of time as to what we prefer, then look for flaws in the other options.  When we find flaws -- which we most certainly will, 'cause ain't nothin' perfect -- then we rule out those options.  Finally we're left with only our favorite option, which has now been "proven" to be the best.  Problem is, we're very unlikely to subject that option to the same rigor.

 

Therefore, we end up with various factions, each honestly believing their choice to be the best, and unable to understand how the opposition could possibly believe otherwise.  Often as not, the opposition is then accused of lying, when the truth is probably more like we're all deceiving ourselves, just in different directions.

 

What ever happened to impartial scientific inquiry?  :(

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

What ever happened to impartial scientific inquiry? :(

It went out long ago. Many scientists will automatically deny any possibility of an intelligent designer when it comes to how we have the universe the way it is before they even begin to use the scientific method which automatically negates any of their conclusions as the scientific method says not to rule out anything until after the tests have been done. I'm sure many have done it in other areas of scientific study as well: only look for what we want to see and deny anything else as plausible despite what the evidence actually says.

[Van Buren Supernova]

So, anyone still confident that it's easy to understand human nature?  :p

[SherlockedCAMPer]

So, anyone still confident that it's easy to understand human nature? :p

It's quite easy to understand. We're all imperfect and are prone to do what fits our fancy at the moment many times without regard to any consequences (good or bad) the decision ends up having. In other words, we want to do what we want to do whenever we can do it regardless of the consequences so long as we or those we deeply care about are not too negatively affected by the choice made.

 

To quote Jesus of Nazareth: “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.”

[Pseudonym]

One place that Alex and I visit in the UK has some offshore windmills, way out where they're barely visible, and I've heard there were some objections from local folks, saying they spoiled the view. Guess if you've spent a ton of money on a nice seaside home, you'd like to keep it nice.

 

Out of curiosity have you ever been to the Gower?

 

As for visibility: there were mills positioned in a way that they caused shadows, that were constantly flickering in people's windows when the sun was shining behind them. Like beebing disco lights in slow motion. 

 

That would be enough to drive anyone around the bend!

[Carol the Dabbler]

... have you ever been to the Gower?

 

Well, I've been to North Gower Street. ;) As for the peninsula, the closest I've been is Bristol.

[Pseudonym]

Ah, the street doesn't count, lol. :D

[Van Buren Supernova]

It's quite easy to understand. We're all imperfect and are prone to do what fits our fancy at the moment many times without regard to any consequences (good or bad) the decision ends up having. In other words, we want to do what we want to do whenever we can do it regardless of the consequences so long as we or those we deeply care about are not too negatively affected by the choice made.

That maybe represent just some percentage of human.

Imperfect, yes, of course. But there are perfection in imperfection.

 

I wish those people who harm their own family and loved ones hear you. Pedophiles, domestic abusers, kinslayers make up for good percentage in crime.

And for me, mostly thing that stop me from doing what I want to do is money. :P

 

Human nature, it's fascinating. Sometimes it's easy to understand, sometimes it's hard. And I get tired trying most times.

I'd say it probably has more possible outcome than moves in chess. And there are move possible moves in chess than number of atoms.

[Pseudonym]

I try not to dwell on it too much, especially after seeing something depressing. 

[Fantasy Lover]

Like what happened in Manchester?

[Pseudonym]

What particular story? All cities have their horror stories.  :(

[Pseudonym]

Oh sh*t I realise what you're talking about now, I hadn't even heard about it! Just watching reports now.

 

And what did Trump have to say?

• World leaders have expressed solidarity with the UK, including US President Donald Trump, who called those responsible "evil losers".

 

Evil losers. Wow, what strong words Trump, really suitable for the gravity of the situation. 

[Fantasy Lover]

:picard:

[Arcadia]

"Evil losers." I was actually screaming at the TV screen when he said that; "What are you, twelve?"

 

Not that I can think of anything better to say. Such a pointless tragedy. :(