DVD/Blu-Ray Extras for Series 3

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Here's a deleted scene from His Last Vow. I assume it's from one of the special editions DVDs, but I don't know. I am waiting to receive mine. Should arrive in a couple of days.

 

I feel like warning you that the scene is with Magnussen, and it's as gross as the man himself. I really, physically hate what goes on here. It's almost worse than the John-Watson-face-flicking scene.

 

that scene was mentioned in another thread.  I do put it as worse than the face flicking because Magnussen seems more creepier in the deleted scene and more of a bully in the face flicking scene.

[sherlockandjohn]

 

Here's a deleted scene from His Last Vow. I assume it's from one of the special editions DVDs, but I don't know. I am waiting to receive mine. Should arrive in a couple of days.

 

I feel like warning you that the scene is with Magnussen, and it's as gross as the man himself. I really, physically hate what goes on here. It's almost worse than the John-Watson-face-flicking scene.

 

that scene was mentioned in another thread.  I do put it as worse than the face flicking because Magnussen seems more creepier in the deleted scene and more of a bully in the face flicking scene.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not surprised it's here somewhere

 

It's also that Sherlock is lying there, heavily sedated, and can't do a thing.      It's downright painful to watch.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Yes it a definitely painful to watch.

[Boton]

I watched that last night before bed and literally had nightmares about it. (So kudos to LM for a brilliant, revolting portrayal.) I am almost physically ill at CAM's predatory actions and Sherlock's vulnerability and literal inability to defend himself.

 

I assume this would have been placed after Mary's visit but before Janine's? If so, I'm glad it was deleted because Janine's scene would not have been the necessary comic relief and may have read as yet another person taking advantage of Sherlock.

 

I'm also glad it was deleted because it makes the shooting at Appledore more a selfless act of Sherlock defending his friends. With the scene in place, all I can think is that going to the lair of someone like CAM, who has no qualms about physically assaulting someone immobilized by sedation, with one handgun in your friend's pocket means not that you are committed to solving the problem intellectually but that you are woefully underarmed.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I assume this would have been placed after Mary's visit but before Janine's?

My best guess (without having watched the scene, just from reading some of the comments here) would be it's definitely before Janine's visit and probably (but not so decidedly) after Mary's. Of course, I am uncertain about a good bit of the chronology of "Last Vow" (and of "Empty Hearse" as well). I wonder if the events would make any more sense to me if I just had them in the right order?

 

[Pamela]

About that awful scene -- has anyone noticed that CAM removed the pulse thing from Sherlock's index finger and replaced it ... well, on a different finger?

[Boton]

Yeah, Carol, I kinda think this visit has to come after Mary but still on the first day post-shooting. Depending on the orientation of Sherlock's room in Bart's, the orangey light in Mary's scene could be early dawn. This scene is full daylight, but I'm going to say that Sherlock's immobility means first day post-op, so we are dealing with general anesthesia plus blood loss more than just a morphine stupor. (Also note the PCA machine is not yet where Sherlock can easily reach it.)

 

I'll have to look for the repositioning of the pulse oximeter.

 

ETA: I forgot what I actually came here to say, which was that I haven't decided what I'm going to believe about whether this "actually happened." Normally, I assume all deleted scenes a show releases on official DVDs are part of the story. But this alters the story significantly for me, and I'm not sure that it wasn't deleted in part to avoid that. I will, however, continue to enjoy the rose from The Woman (since Arwel Wynn Jones confirmed it earlier).

[Arcadia]

Hmmm, Zain said something similar, that this scene seems to alter Sherlock's motivation for killing CAM. I don't know, though ... have we ever seen Sherlock give a fig what anyone does to him? He just doesn't seem to take personal assaults personally. That would distract him from his "work" ... which in this case, for whatever reason, seems to be protecting Mary.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... and/or John ... and/or Janine ....

 

[Arcadia]

Right. Well, maybe not Janine so much (sorry, Janine!)

[Schlauer Fuchs]

Hmmm, Zain said something similar, that this scene seems to alter Sherlock's motivation for killing CAM. I don't know, though ... have we ever seen Sherlock give a fig what anyone does to him? He just doesn't seem to take personal assaults personally. That would distract him from his "work" ... which in this case, for whatever reason, seems to be protecting Mary.

 

I quite agree, for me the scene doesn't alter Sherlock's motivation so much. Maybe it intensified his despise for CAM to some degree, but I never thought (and still don't do) that Sherlock shot him because he despised him but because he wanted Mary and John to be safe. Otherwise, the scene fits in nicely with my interpretation of the story. We know that Mary didn't shoot CAM, we know that he kept her identity from the police, we know that he still had the information on Mary and that he would potentially use them against her. So no new information there.

 

But I think we may have seen one incident in which Sherlock got angry over a personal assault: I know he isn't particulary polite or deliberate on people's feelings anyway, but I think the "You repel me" that he spit into Kitty's face (and dictaphone) was more intense than his usual thoughtless rudeness, it was meant to hurt.

[Arcadia]

.... 

But I think we may have seen one incident in which Sherlock got angry over a personal assault: I know he isn't particulary polite or deliberate on people's feelings anyway, but I think the "You repel me" that he spit into Kitty's face (and dictaphone) was more intense than his usual thoughtless rudeness, it was meant to hurt.

Yes, the venom he showed towards her was rather surprising. But then I thought later he did it on purpose, to turn her against him so she would write negative articles about him ... all as part of his plan to catch Moriarty.

[Boton]

 

Hmmm, Zain said something similar, that this scene seems to alter Sherlock's motivation for killing CAM. I don't know, though ... have we ever seen Sherlock give a fig what anyone does to him? He just doesn't seem to take personal assaults personally. That would distract him from his "work" ... which in this case, for whatever reason, seems to be protecting Mary.

 

I quite agree, for me the scene doesn't alter Sherlock's motivation so much. Maybe it intensified his despise for CAM to some degree, but I never thought (and still don't do) that Sherlock shot him because he despised him but because he wanted Mary and John to be safe. Otherwise, the scene fits in nicely with my interpretation of the story. We know that Mary didn't shoot CAM, we know that he kept her identity from the police, we know that he still had the information on Mary and that he would potentially use them against her. So no new information there.

 

 

 

I guess, for me, it alters Sherlock's motivation in a couple of different ways:

 

1.  Sherlock himself is being threatened.  CAM's "you'll get used to it" about the wetness of his touch makes the whole use of one of Sherlock's pressure points (John, via Mary) very personal.  We have CAM explaining very clearly that Sherlock will do as CAM pleases, or CAM will destroy Mary (and therefore John).  For me, that's slightly different than Sherlock doing the math on his own but remaining a bit removed from being blackmailed himself.  It is more personal, and therefore his eventual shooting of CAM is less selfless. 

 

2.  I also have to take into account the effect of the scene on the viewer and what that does to our own understanding of motivations.  Even if Sherlock can emotionally remove himself from being the target of CAM's physical contact boundary issues, I can't.  And I, as a viewer, bring that disgust into future scenes.  It may not change the overall trajectory of the episode, but the deleted scene makes me go from seeing the face-flicking with John as the the last straw to more of a bridge too far.  With the scene in place, I basically want Sherlock to shoot CAM in the restaurant (the hospital "canteen") and then spend the last 25 minutes of the show just having Christmas Day at the Holmes house with no need for an Appledore invasion.  The eventual shooting starts to feel too late, rather than at the breaking point.

 

Basically, to paraphrase Mummy, someone has gotten physically creepy with my boy, and I'm absolutely monstrous.  And I can't separate my emotions from the character's motivations, so I'm glad the scene is gone.

[T.o.b.y]

About that awful scene -- has anyone noticed that CAM removed the pulse thing from Sherlock's index finger and replaced it ... well, on a different finger?

 

I did notice, but I don't "get" it. Is there supposed to be some kind of significance? Btw, my real world experience kicked in when he removed it and I went, dumb move, buddy, because this is going to trigger an alarm - "no signal", and that in turn will probably get a nurse to the room sooner than later. But then I remembered, Sherlock-world isn't always like that, and besides, how often in real life are beeping alarms ignored because they are so often false. And I bet Sherlock is just the kind of person who removes clips and cables continually, because they annoy him or whatever, and also just the kind of patient a nurse does not feel like having more encounters with than necessary...

 

Hmmm, Zain said something similar, that this scene seems to alter Sherlock's motivation for killing CAM. I don't know, though ... have we ever seen Sherlock give a fig what anyone does to him? He just doesn't seem to take personal assaults personally. That would distract him from his "work" ... which in this case, for whatever reason, seems to be protecting Mary.

 

I don't think the visit bothered Sherlock that much, either. A lot less than us, probably. He seems great at just ignoring petty insults - remember how little he cared about Magnussen urinating in his fireplace? It's pretty likely that Sherlock simply wrote Magnussen's behavior off as just another pathetic display of power, deduced a few salacious details about why the man needed those to feel good about himself, and then went back to his drug-enhanced slumber.

 

Some member of the writing team must have a taste for villains doing creepy things with his helpless hero. Remember the unaired pilot? Syringe, drug, cabbie, rolling around on the floor? Somebody it seems cannot quite let go of that... Though personally, I think they did it best with Irene.

[Schlauer Fuchs]

 

Basically, to paraphrase Mummy, someone has gotten physically creepy with my boy, and I'm absolutely monstrous.

 

^_^ That's really sweet! I always feel like this when I see Mycroft watching how Sherlock gets beaten by the Serbians.

 

I seem to be the exception here, but to me CAM's assault of Sherlock's private space in the deleted scene is less disgusting than what he did to Lady Smallwood. Of course it's something that forbids itself, but to  me it's less gross than licking Lady Smallwood's face and even less encroaching than flicking John's face.

[Boton]

 

I seem to be the exception here, but to me CAM's assault of Sherlock's private space in the deleted scene is less disgusting than what he did to Lady Smallwood. Of course it's something that forbids itself, but to  me it's less gross than licking Lady Smallwood's face and even less encroaching than flicking John's face.

 

 

No, I actually agree with you.  I think the face licking was actually the worst invasion we saw, which may have been part of what made this scene superfluous -- we already know from the Lady Smallwood scene that CAM has no problem with putting his wet hands and his possibly-forked tongue anywhere he wants, so why repeat it?

 

It's actually the dialogue that elevates the Sherlock scene to ultra-creepy for me.  Sherlock is lying there, immobilized by sedation and blood loss, and CAM basically tells him, "You're a sensitive guy.  You're practically a weak little woman as far as I'm concerned.  You'll do whatever I want, and I will make you my b**ch."

[Janie]

So I finally saw the deleted scene and it wasn't as creepy as I thought it would be. The flicking John's face scene seems much worse to me. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Now y'all have got me really curious about this scene -- but I still think I'll wait for the DVD, so I can get the full effect all at once.

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

 

I seem to be the exception here, but to me CAM's assault of Sherlock's private space in the deleted scene is less disgusting than what he did to Lady Smallwood. Of course it's something that forbids itself, but to  me it's less gross than licking Lady Smallwood's face and even less encroaching than flicking John's face.

 

 

No, I actually agree with you.  I think the face licking was actually the worst invasion we saw, which may have been part of what made this scene superfluous -- we already know from the Lady Smallwood scene that CAM has no problem with putting his wet hands and his possibly-forked tongue anywhere he wants, so why repeat it?

 

It's actually the dialogue that elevates the Sherlock scene to ultra-creepy for me.  Sherlock is lying there, immobilized by sedation and blood loss, and CAM basically tells him, "You're a sensitive guy.  You're practically a weak little woman as far as I'm concerned.  You'll do whatever I want, and I will make you my b**ch."

 

Yeah, I read the dialogue, thanks to Ariane DeVere's transcript, and I agree it's pretty bad.

 

I'm guessing what the scene was originally for was to let the audience know that Magnussen was alive, that Mary had not shot him as well after she had shot Sherlock, and also that he had not gone to the police, and why not. They integrated all that information very well into the Empty House / Baker St confrontation scenes, so this scene became superfluous. Also, it is pretty similar to the scene we get with Mary, so keeping both would have been a little repetitive, and I much prefer the one with Mary. Wouldn't have been strictly necessary, either, but if they wanted something like that, I'd much rather see "Mary is scary and ruthless" than "Magnussen is creepy and disgusting".

 

Besides, they can't have every villain flirt with the hero, and Moriarty just does it so much better.

 

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Besides, they can't have every villain flirt with the hero, and Moriarty just does it so much better.

 

 

Agree Moriarty does flirt well and we only need one flirting with him (not including The Woman).

[Boton]

 

 

I'm guessing what the scene was originally for was to let the audience know that Magnussen was alive, that Mary had not shot him as well after she had shot Sherlock, and also that he had not gone to the police, and why not. They integrated all that information very well into the Empty House / Baker St confrontation scenes, so this scene because superfluous. Also, it is pretty similar to the scene we get with Mary, so keeping both would have been a little repetitive, and I much prefer the one with Mary. Wouldn't have been strictly necessary, either, but if they wanted something like that, I'd much rather see "Mary is scary and ruthless" than "Magnussen is creepy and disgusting".

 

Besides, they can't have every villain flirt with the hero, and Moriarty just does it so much better.

 

 

 

 

From a story-telling perspective, too, I think it's much better to have Sherlock deduce Mary's motives through Mary alone than by getting any information through CAM.  It lets us have Mary as a more ambiguous character, which I like.  Mary is also "safer" to have speaking to Sherlock.  I believed from my original viewing that Mary was visiting Sherlock while he was sedated because he was already saying "Mary" and she wanted to rush in before he could babble, but she was never going to take advantage of him in any physical way.  With CAM, I believe he visited early because he wanted his victim as vulnerable as possible, which also brings on the creepy.

 

One thing I will give this scene is that it sort of modernizes the explanation behind CAM's awfulness that ACD gave in "The Adventures of Charles Augustus Milverton."  In the original story, even though the blackmail materials are very Victorian (mostly information that would destroy women's marriages and engagements to wealthy and titled men), you got a real sense of how CAM was just collecting data and holding it until he could either use it for extortion or release it to further prove how much havoc he could wreak.  This scene did give me a modern sense of that, but I totally agree that we got the point by putting the information elsewhere in the episode.

[Arcadia]

....With the scene in place, I basically want Sherlock to shoot CAM in the restaurant (the hospital "canteen") and then spend the last 25 minutes of the show just having Christmas Day at the Holmes house with no need for an Appledore invasion.

I don't know if it was supposed to but that really made me laugh. Partly because I get the impression Sherlock would almost rather be dead than spend Christmas with his family. 

 

I seem to be the exception here, but to me CAM's assault of Sherlock's private space in the deleted scene is less disgusting than what he did to Lady Smallwood.....

I agree, but I think it angers me more because I "know" (and love) Sherlock, and I don't have much connection to Lady Smallwood. CAM creeped me out when he licked Lady S; I wanted to leap into the screen and throttle him when he touched Sherlock!

 

One thing I will give this scene is that it sort of modernizes the explanation behind CAM's awfulness that ACD gave in "The Adventures of Charles Augustus Milverton."  In the original story, even though the blackmail materials are very Victorian (mostly information that would destroy women's marriages and engagements to wealthy and titled men), you got a real sense of how CAM was just collecting data and holding it until he could either use it for extortion or release it to further prove how much havoc he could wreak.  This scene did give me a modern sense of that, but I totally agree that we got the point by putting the information elsewhere in the episode.

Maybe I said this already, but one thing this scene does do is help me "feel" CAM's threat more directly. One (fairly minor) problem I've had with HLV from the start is that CAM just wasn't scary enough, somehow. Creepy, distasteful, etc., but until I saw this scene I never really felt it in my gut. I guess because he was threatening strangers in all the other scenes (or in Mary's case, near-stranger), and not a "friend"??? (So much for my innate compassion for others!!! )

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Dunno if it's already been posted in this thread, but I found the deleted scene you guys're talking about on YouTube:

 

http://youtu.be/fNpCm1y1xEk

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Just watched it again and it still creeps me out. I would love to see it in context with the actual episode.

[sittything]

Just watched it again and it still creeps me out. I would love to see it in context with the actual episode.

 

I'm still over here making this face: