Molly Hooper

[SherlockedCAMPer]

And if Sherlock were allowed back in, how would Molly fit into that picture?

 

(Just trying to un- as Jenny tried to do back in November ;))

[sfmpco]

I would say that he would have probably left the country with little to no communication with her, so he would have disappeared from her life.  She would have gone to John to find out what she could, but I'm not sure how much John actually understood at the end, just that he was not going to see Sherlock again.  Then she might have gone to Mycroft.  I think she would have waited six months or so to see if he survived, and then she may have moved on with her life again.  But I think she might have stayed single for a long time... too much heartache.

 

I think if he somehow survived and were allowed back in, he might be a whole lot humbler.  In fact, I sort of suspect we might see a little more humility in his character in S4.  And a slightly more humble Sherlock means his heart is a little more open... and Molly will be the first to recognize it because at this point she reads him the way he reads others.

 

To clarify, I do think John knew that Sherlock was being punished by being sent away but I'm not sure he understood the ultimate ramifications about the six month thing and Sherlock's "who knows?" comment.  Maybe John understood it was a Black Ops mission.  Maybe Mary understood.  Hard to say.

[Arcadia]

I can't find it in me to believe John understood the "death sentence" part of it. If he did, then I nominate him as the #1 suspect in the case of the Moriarty gif!

 

My guess is "the British government" would have come up with a cover story that explained the disappearance of both CAM and Sherlock. And I'm guessing John and Mary would have been sworn to keep the secret. And while I'm guessing, I'll guess Sherlock would've asked Mycroft to convey his regrets to Molly, Lestrade etc. So, yeah, basically Molly would have been left hanging, and finally moved on. Best thing for her, actually. But cruel. Poor Molly, I wish she'd just get over the guy, but I understand completely why she doesn't.

 

I expect a somewhat humbler Sherlock too. After all, CAM beat him ... I think he's smart enough to learn from that. I'm afraid he'll be more somber as well, but maybe that's because I notice BC doesn't seem to smile much in public anymore. But I'd love to see him leap in the air again and shout "yes!" because he's got an interesting case.

[Shadow Dweller]

Somehow in my eyes Molly would be better with someone stable and mature, someone like D.I. Lestrade. Sherlock would remain to be a fantasy but he is not someone who could make her content and happy for long.

[Boton]

 

 

To clarify, I do think John knew that Sherlock was being punished by being sent away but I'm not sure he understood the ultimate ramifications about the six month thing and Sherlock's "who knows?" comment.  Maybe John understood it was a Black Ops mission.  Maybe Mary understood.  Hard to say.

 

 

I don't think John understood the ramifications of what was going on.  I think you are right that maybe Mary did.  She was positioned the best to know what happened to a spy that was, well, not "burned" but at least punished in an extra-legal fashion.

 

 

 

I expect a somewhat humbler Sherlock too. After all, CAM beat him ... I think he's smart enough to learn from that. I'm afraid he'll be more somber as well, but maybe that's because I notice BC doesn't seem to smile much in public anymore. But I'd love to see him leap in the air again and shout "yes!" because he's got an interesting case.

 

BC hasn't seemed happy in a couple of months, really.  I haven't seen a lot of the usual exuberance, and he seems continually putting on a front.  I hope everything is OK or he gets whatever it is sorted.

 

Back to Molly, I almost think that she would have been an emotional casualty if he hadn't come back.  She would have waited and wondered until finally the penny dropped for John, and maybe then John told her.  

 

I agree about Molly and Lestrade.  If our people have to be paired up with one another (realistically, they do to keep the recurring cast to a manageable level), then he seems like the right degree of caring, competence, and bad-assery for her.  

[T.o.b.y]

Somehow in my eyes Molly would be better with someone stable and mature, someone like D.I. Lestrade. Sherlock would remain to be a fantasy but he is not someone who could make her content and happy for long.

 

Yes, that is my lookout as well.

 

But it is based on my real-life experiences of course, and Molly isn't me, and her story isn't real life. So god knows what will happen. I get this feeling that at least Steven Moffat is pretty keen on the idea of Sherlock and Molly getting together somehow, though if you look at how he's written relationships on this show so far, it won't be in a particularly straight-forward, simple, traditional way. Sooner Molly than Janine, to please me, that's for sure, and I'd still prefer it to be nobody. But what I prefer isn't really relevant, is it.

 

We shall see.

 

[sfmpco]

Well, whatever happens with Molly, I hope she realized that if she had stayed with Tom, she would have "settled" rather than really gone for someone who was more her equal.  I think Tom may have been her rebound guy.

[T.o.b.y]

Tom was an idiot. Sorry, but a man who will dress up as another man to be with someone is pathetic. He must have known damn well whom Molly's heart actually beat for, and if he was willing to settle for being no more than a cheap copy of that, then he must have been a flaming imbecile. No wonder she didn't really respect him.

 

Molly is much, much, much stronger than that. She refused to be a stand-in for John, even though that could have bought her a lot of time with Sherlock. She insists on being valued for who she is alone, period. How many women, in fiction and real life, are capable of that?

 

I hereby declare, for them umpteenth time, my unfading love and admiration for Miss Molly Hooper.

[sfmpco]

Tom will be forever remembered as "the meat dagger" guy.

[Arcadia]

I don't think John understood the ramifications of what was going on.  I think you are right that maybe Mary did.  She was positioned the best to know what happened to a spy that was, well, not "burned" but at least punished in an extra-legal fashion.

Which fits in neatly with my theory that Mary's behind the Moriarty gif!

 

BC hasn't seemed happy in a couple of months, really.  I haven't seen a lot of the usual exuberance, and he seems continually putting on a front.  I hope everything is OK or he gets whatever it is sorted.

For now I'm going to assume it's all the press junkets, they look to me like they are horribly boring, exhausting and intrusive.

 

Back to Molly, I almost think that she would have been an emotional casualty if he hadn't come back.  She would have waited and wondered until finally the penny dropped for John, and maybe then John told her.  

 

I agree about Molly and Lestrade.  If our people have to be paired up with one another (realistically, they do to keep the recurring cast to a manageable level), then he seems like the right degree of caring, competence, and bad-assery for her.

I will continue guessing, and guess at some point Mycroft would have announced to the world that Sherlock died in a freak dogsled accident, or something.

 

Am I the only one who thinks Molly should be with someone closer to her own age, so she doesn't end up as a caretaker for an old codger while she's still in her prime? Or is that just too darn unromantic of me to think of it that way? :D

 

.... I get this feeling that at least Steven Moffat is pretty keen on the idea of Sherlock and Molly getting together somehow, though if you look at how he's written relationships on this show so far, it won't be in a particularly straight-forward, simple, traditional way. ....

Based on what, if I may ask? I know he said Sherlock loves Molly but from the context it's clear he didn't mean it "that way." I can't think of anything else I've seen one way or the other, so I'm curious.

[Boton]

 

Am I the only one who thinks Molly should be with someone closer to her own age, so she doesn't end up as a caretaker for an old codger while she's still in her prime? Or is that just too darn unromantic of me to think of it that way? :D

 

 

.... I get this feeling that at least Steven Moffat is pretty keen on the idea of Sherlock and Molly getting together somehow, though if you look at how he's written relationships on this show so far, it won't be in a particularly straight-forward, simple, traditional way. ....

Based on what, if I may ask? I know he said Sherlock loves Molly but from the context it's clear he didn't mean it "that way." I can't think of anything else he's said.

 

 

Let's see, Loo is 35 and Rupert is 51, which is a big age difference but doesn't have to be an insurmountable one.  He's a DI, so we know he's fit and active and may not become an "old codger" for quite some time.

 

I disagree that Moffat wants Sherlock and Molly together.  I thought I read an interview where he was asked (maybe along with BC?) if Sherlock and Molly should get together, and they both said "no" fairly definitively.  I think it was the same one in which one of them said that Molly always had hope, which was the tragedy for her.

[Arcadia]

I disagree that Moffat wants Sherlock and Molly together.  I thought I read an interview where he was asked (maybe along with BC?) if Sherlock and Molly should get together, and they both said "no" fairly definitively.  I think it was the same one in which one of them said that Molly always had hope, which was the tragedy for her.

I seem to remember the same thing, although it may have been BC only, the time I'm thinking of. Also I think it was in the interview BC did with Loo, when she asked "is there hope for Molly?" and he responded something along the lines of "always, that's what's so cruel." Based on that and a couple of other things I've read, I get the distinct impression BC thinks Sherlock is something of a bastard when it comes to women.

[Shadow Dweller]

 

I disagree that Moffat wants Sherlock and Molly together.  I thought I read an interview where he was asked (maybe along with BC?) if Sherlock and Molly should get together, and they both said "no" fairly definitively.  I think it was the same one in which one of them said that Molly always had hope, which was the tragedy for her.

I seem to remember the same thing, although it may have been BC only, the time I'm thinking of. Also I think it was in the interview BC did with Loo, when she asked "is there hope for Molly?" and he responded something along the lines of "always, that's what's so cruel." Based on that and a couple of other things I've read, I get the distinct impression BC thinks Sherlock is something of a bastard when it comes to women.

 

 

In that regard Sherlock was no better from 'Jim from IT', both of them were stringing Molly for their own amusement and or convenience. That's an abusive relationship.

[sfmpco]

Yes, but that was S1, and we're beyond that now.  Now she puts up with nothing from him.

[Boton]

 

 

I disagree that Moffat wants Sherlock and Molly together.  I thought I read an interview where he was asked (maybe along with BC?) if Sherlock and Molly should get together, and they both said "no" fairly definitively.  I think it was the same one in which one of them said that Molly always had hope, which was the tragedy for her.

I seem to remember the same thing, although it may have been BC only, the time I'm thinking of. Also I think it was in the interview BC did with Loo, when she asked "is there hope for Molly?" and he responded something along the lines of "always, that's what's so cruel." Based on that and a couple of other things I've read, I get the distinct impression BC thinks Sherlock is something of a bastard when it comes to women.

 

 

In that regard Sherlock was no better from 'Jim from IT', both of them were stringing Molly for their own amusement and or convenience. That's an abusive relationship.

 

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it quite rises to the level of abuse.  It's manipulative.  It's less than honorable.  But Sherlock tends to do whatever he thinks necessary to get the outcome he wants, especially in regard to relationships.  I hesitate to say it rises to the level of abuse because it seems to me it's in that grey area.  We'll see if Sherlock behaves more honorably as time goes on.

[Shadow Dweller]

 

 

 

I disagree that Moffat wants Sherlock and Molly together.  I thought I read an interview where he was asked (maybe along with BC?) if Sherlock and Molly should get together, and they both said "no" fairly definitively.  I think it was the same one in which one of them said that Molly always had hope, which was the tragedy for her.

I seem to remember the same thing, although it may have been BC only, the time I'm thinking of. Also I think it was in the interview BC did with Loo, when she asked "is there hope for Molly?" and he responded something along the lines of "always, that's what's so cruel." Based on that and a couple of other things I've read, I get the distinct impression BC thinks Sherlock is something of a bastard when it comes to women.

 

 

In that regard Sherlock was no better from 'Jim from IT', both of them were stringing Molly for their own amusement and or convenience. That's an abusive relationship.

 

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it quite rises to the level of abuse.  It's manipulative.  It's less than honorable.  But Sherlock tends to do whatever he thinks necessary to get the outcome he wants, especially in regard to relationships.  I hesitate to say it rises to the level of abuse because it seems to me it's in that grey area.  We'll see if Sherlock behaves more honorably as time goes on.

 

 

Holmes brothers' favourite quote and life motto, "The end justified the means"  :lol:

[sfmpco]

[Arcadia]

Yes, but that was S1, and we're beyond that now. Now she puts up with nothing from him.

I hope that's right, we really didn't get a clear enough picture of their relationship in S3. Or rather, the relationship was in transition the whole time, I'd say. For all I know she's so disappointed in him right now that she doesn't want anything to do with him any more.

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it quite rises to the level of abuse. It's manipulative. It's less than honorable. But Sherlock tends to do whatever he thinks necessary to get the outcome he wants, especially in regard to relationships. I hesitate to say it rises to the level of abuse because it seems to me it's in that grey area. We'll see if Sherlock behaves more honorably as time goes on.

Same here, "manipulative" and "abusive" not quite the same thing to me either. But I do think he's meant to have moved beyond that, at least with Molly.

[sfmpco]

I think it surprised him in TRF that she "read" him when he thought he was being so guarded.  I think it surprised him that she COULD read him and I think it surprised him that he wasn't keeping his emotions in as perfect control as he would have liked.  

 

Molly and Sherlock have a longer relationship that John and Sherlock.  The fact that Molly has romantic feelings for Sherlock enables her to see into his heart in the way that John never can.  That's the way romantic feelings work. 

 

I also think that they do quite a bit of chatting when John's not around, as revealed in ASIB's Christmas scene.  She was a bit indiscreet with some of the things he had casually said to her and his tone is saying them "Sherlock was complaining...saying," but when we get to TRFs, she has never lost faith in him, never.  Certainly she has seen the scalding press, but she knows him.  That's why she never wavers when she asks (despite everything), "what do you need?"  If she had wavered at all, he would have chosen some other path to deal with Moriarty.

[Shadow Dweller]

In Sherlock's voice, "Romantic feeling is largely self-delusion that cloud the mind's eyes. What you see is what you want to see."

 

*SD is feeling mischievous today*  

[sfmpco]

I have seen BC glowing, actually, for some time.  However, it has got to be a real drag doing those press circuits.  Or maybe I should press circus.  Plus he was flying here and there and everywhere constantly, then going back to shoot Richard III. Jet-lagged, exhausted.  I think after Sherlock he will be having some down time with wedding planning/wedding/and then a baby.  Personal time for a few months.  I am going to estimate that he will bow out of "The Lost City of Z because of time constraints (mostly that production's problems), and then he goes into Hamlet rehearsals and then Hamlet for 3 months, and then I think he's got 3 eps of Sherlock after Hamlet.  

[Arcadia]

I had to laugh, because wedding planning/wedding/baby sounds like anything but down time to me! But personal time, yes, he'll have to fit it in somewhere, won't he? :D

[sfmpco]

It's more "down time" than running around on planes to this screening, that press junket, this award, that award...ugh.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Tom was an idiot. Sorry, but a man who will dress up as another man to be with someone is pathetic. He must have known damn well whom Molly's heart actually beat for, and if he was willing to settle for being no more than a cheap copy of that, then he must have been a flaming imbecile. No wonder she didn't really respect him.

If that's the way it happened, I would agree with you. But I've been assuming that Tom always dressed that way -- such coats have been "in" recently, after all, and the "European knot" way of arranging a scarf is popular in London. And he really can't help it that he's tall and thin. So anyhow, Molly just unthinkingly went for him.  At least that's my take.

 

Tom will be forever remembered as "the meat dagger" guy.

I still maintain that if Sherlock had come up with that idea, we'd have been supposed to think it was brilliant!

 

Am I the only one who thinks Molly should be with someone closer to her own age, so she doesn't end up as a caretaker for an old codger while she's still in her prime? Or is that just too darn unromantic of me to think of it that way? :D

Yes. It is.

[Arcadia]

In spite of everything I do have a pragmatic streak. :P