John Watson

[Arcadia]

I've concluded he was seeing Ella to get ideas how to "win back" John, not for therapy himself. Not that that makes sense either, given what he ended up doing. But maybe he thought she had some insight into John's nature that he himself did not?

 

Oh, wait ... someone suggested she was in his mind palace, and that makes sense to me, although there was nothing about the way it was filmed to suggest that (other than that weird room they were in). But given the way the rest of that episode was filmed, that shouldn't surprise me. :(

[Pseudonym]

Surely, if it was real, she wouldn't have been able to share enough information with him to be of any help anyway. And has he seen Ella to know what she looks like for her to be in his mind palace?

[Boton]

Quoting Pseudonym

 

 

In his three continents days would John have been able to seduce you? Discuss  ;)

 

How did I miss this excellent discussion question?  

 

John is one of those guys who would have sort of "snuck up" on me, seduction-wise.  He's not really my physical type (which is generally tall, dark, and olive), so I may not have walked across a bar room to meet him.  However, if he were in a group that I was a part of and I got to know his personality, I think one day I would have been surprised to discover how absolutely hot he really is.  Personality wise, he's quite a bit what I would look for:  gentle on the surface, extremely smart (doctor), and potentially able to break every bone in someone's body while naming them.  

 

[bedelia1984]

 

 

...

I agree on everything but the "warm" part.  John strikes me as very cold actually!  I don't think I would have succumbed to the charms of Dr. Watson lol, at least not this version. 

 

 

:( Aww, but I always saw John as the human male equivalent of some sort of cute furry animal- Freeman compares him to a hedgehog, doesn't he? (Which is prickly, I'll allow but still pretty darn cute). I know he has that cold sniper side to him, but I always found him quite warm and endearing when it came to the ladies- I sort of imagine him being that kind of Dad too.

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

I agree on everything but the "warm" part.  John strikes me as very cold actually!  I don't think I would have succumbed to the charms of Dr. Watson lol, at least not this version.

 

:( Aww, but I always saw John as the human male equivalent of some sort of cute furry animal- Freeman compares him to a hedgehog, doesn't he? (Which is prickly, I'll allow but still pretty darn cute). I know he has that cold sniper side to him, but I always found him quite warm and endearing when it came to the ladies- I sort of imagine him being that kind of Dad too.

 

I agree with everything except whose idea the hedgehog was.  Actually, I have no idea who came up with it, but seriously doubt it was MF himself.

 

I'm glad that they gave John a baby (even though I can understand the objections), because I've always thought he'd be a great dad.  Anyhow, it's possible that the original Watson was a father but simply didn't see that as relevant to his accounts of Holmes's cases, just as he rarely even mentioned his wife.  And weren't the kids in Victorian homes often raised by servants?

[J.P.]

Not on the cuddly side. John looks funny, but he isn't. Again, angry little man is what fits my idea of John the best.

[Pseudonym]

Yea, I think that's what would put me off. I'd start out thinking he was a nice guy, and then slowly realise he isn't. He's too angry.

I guess in that way the hedgehog analogy does work, I used to have an African Pygmy Hedgehog which is what he most seems to be compared to in the memes, and she looked adorable but those spikes... God they are sharp. I sat on one she had moulted and had to actually pull it out of my leg. Oh, and she was angry, lots of hissing and growling. So yea, that's John. 

[Arcadia]

Surely, if it was real, she wouldn't have been able to share enough information with him to be of any help anyway. And has he seen Ella to know what she looks like for her to be in his mind palace?

If he followed John around all the time like John seemed to think he did ... probably, yeh.

[Pseudonym]

I dunno if he would be that interested. John is going to his therapy appointment? Dull.  ;)

[Arcadia]

I'll bet that's what John thought about his middle name, too. ;)

[Van Buren Supernova]

 

Is that why we haven't been seeing many comments from you, because updated posts weren't showing up on your contents page? That is messed up. 

 

No, I suppose the ones that I have participated in show up fine in My Content (The one that I haven't don't show, unless I dig it up).

I just have a lot of difficulties following those hidden threads especially S4. Everytime I log in, there are plethora of new pages and new posts. I don't have enough time to keep up. When the threads are in the open, I can sneak a glance everytime I have short minutes, during waiting or boring discussion without logging in and it helps.

 

 

..... The only, possibly, ideal way is that they end up together, BUT, that won't be the case, at least not in Sherlock's mind at that moment, that's why he was so crushed because he realizes that is actually something not reversible. He could say anything to anyone; insult, condemn, make fun, chastise or indirectly saying something endearing but he never ever ever say things like that because I am sure, he doesn't know how to process that yet. It is still the currency he doesn't know how to use, and he is forced to do that in quite brutal ways. To me, there is every reason of why that coffin is in pieces.....

I'm not sure I'm following your point here. Is the currency you're referring to specifically the words ILY and what that implies? So you think he broke the coffin because he had to say ILY and doesn't know what that means in the Molly context or because he didn't mean it but had made Molly say it anyway?

I am referring to how Sherlock value himself in relationship. He doesn't know how much he is 'worth', the effects he has on other people or what he means to them.

[Van Buren Supernova]

@John's charm as a guy.

 

On the very beginning, no. He seems keen and interested (like when he was asking non-Anthea) and to me, that is actually works the other way around or even repulsive. I tend to be interested with mysterious guy who avoid attention instead of seeking it. The more he is not interested, the more he is intriguing. And I hardly look, like I mentioned somewhere, guys are merely talking lump of shadow until they catch my attention with their capabilities, personality or brain power, so it always starts as friend. Actually, Sherlock is really my type. :p

 

IF John becomes friend and shows more of his personality, maybe still no, somehow he seems detached and, sorry, a bit boring. He doesn't seem to take a lot of initiatives. This is before TLD, because hell no, if I witness what he did in TST and TLD.

 

Eta: I don't have anything to add in your discussion about John, Sherlock and Irene.

But I have been wondering about them, and to bring this back to John.

 

Regarding John's question to Sherlock about Irene. Why after all this time, John is still doing what he is doing?

The way I see it, John always demands Sherlock to be a person he thinks Sherlock is. Demand is probably too strong word, but he is persistent. He wants Sherlock to be a hero, he wants him to hold higher standard, he wants him to lead 'normal' life the way he thinks it's good for Sherlock.

 

I get it. I get it. That he is a good friend and wants Sherlock to be the person he could be. It's all for good intention.

But geez, it must be very tiring being friend with him.

[Arcadia]

 

Is that why we haven't been seeing many comments from you, because updated posts weren't showing up on your contents page? That is messed up. 

No, I suppose the ones that I have participated in show up fine in My Content (The one that I haven't don't show, unless I dig it up).

I just have a lot of difficulties following those hidden threads especially S4. Everytime I log in, there are plethora of new pages and new posts. I don't have enough time to keep up. When the threads are in the open, I can sneak a glance everytime I have short minutes, during waiting or boring discussion without logging in and it helps. 

 

But that is what confuses me ... they're not hidden! Well, not on my end, they're not. But if you are using My Content instead of New Content, that may explain it. I've never used My Content.

 

I agree that guys who try to flirt with me (not that that happens often ) tend to turn me off; especially the ones who try to turn every word into innuendo. Them, I just want to get away from as soon as possible. But I do find John cute when he's trying to be, which is a plus. And capable, which is a big plus. But, yeah, overall, I'm afraid Sherlock ... who doesn't even try ... is more my type. I'm doomed.

[Van Buren Supernova]

You mean you can still see those posts even when you are logged out?

 

The new threads that I couldn't see, like we discussed back then, don't appear in either My content or New Content. I can find them if I look for them, but not when I'm logged out.

 

 

Since I'm bashing John a lot lately, I'll add to say that I find John cute when:

- He tries to lie in SIB

- When he gets excited trying to solve Connie Prince's murder.

- When he makes Sherlock his nurse.

- Best man speech

- He steps up to protect Sherlock in TAB and TGG. :( Those were the days..

[Arcadia]

Aha. I don't know, I never log out. Still .... it's not like we're doing anything on this end that would keep them from appearing just like any other thread. I mean, spoiler threads simply have the word "spoiler" in the title, they're not specially coded or in a special place. That's why I'm puzzled ... if you're seeing anything at all when your not logged in, there's no reason for those threads to be invisible. Unless the software on your phone doesn't like the word "spoiler..."?

 

ETA ... okay, I see the problem ... when I'm not logged in, I don't have access to the content list. Got it. I just automatically am kept logged in, and never thought about it.

 

Yeah, yeah, I'm slow ........  

[Carol the Dabbler]

Also, I think some threads are accessible only to members -- the "adult" areas, obviously, but also some of the new-series stuff, presumably as an inventive to join.  And if you're not logged in, the software can't tell whether you're a member or not, so no access.

[Arcadia]

Found this little musing on John, and thought it quite lovely: http://nemoholmes.tumblr.com/post/157646988306/tldjohn-or-just-john

[J.P.]

This is monumental <- and I love the expression

[Van Buren Supernova]

Nope. Nope.

Sorry guys, the conclusion is okay and all, I won't dispute that. But what is included in that conclusion is really not.

 

I will forever pick on this..

..John’s humanity is this: his violent streak, a certain kind of monstrosity...

..That humanity included beating Sherlock bloody...

 

I defend a lot of dark sides, questionable actions of Sherlock's characters, including Sherlock, Mycroft and John and characters from other shows. I find many villains amusing and for lack of better word, entertaining. I enjoy getting into their heads, digging into the reasoning, backgrounds and their histories. While I can sometimes (most times) understand very complex bad guys/bad actions (not cartoonish moustache twirling one-dimensional villains) there is still NO way I'd use the word 'humanity' to justify what they do.

 

To make it clear, athough I may continue to b*tch about John, I do understand begrudgingly that I have different interpretation and feeling about TLD beating than what the showmaker intended, so I leave it at that, close one and half eyes, and move on.

 

But imho, h stands for honest, it's so wrong to justify what John did, with glorified word humanity. I mean, really?? Do you guys really agree to that?

 

Because if those were humanity, there shouldn't be any cry anymore because the world obviously have enough of it.

Hmmmph.

*play screeching violin*

[Pseudonym]

Yea, I'm with VBS on this, I don't agree with that analysis either, which unfortunately I don't have time to get into right now. Later perhaps. 

[J.P.]

To me humanity is nothing to be glorified. It actually has more shadow than light.

[Shadow Dweller]

Did someone just called me here? :D

[Pseudonym]

I think my main issue is that I've always seen John as human and not an especially nice guy, so making him even more unpleasant isn't something to be celebrated as a way of making him more human. Sherlock is an arse, and you expect that because your told to expect it from the beginning, John is tasked with helping him bring that side of himself under control, but if John is even worse than Sherlock it seems like there is no point in having him there. If Sherlock were following John's say on what is and isn't good he'd be going around battering people for being in the way too. I get what the author is trying to say but I think it's too simplistic. Also the part about him sobbing in front of Sherlock because he trusts him enough to do that in front of him (I'm paraphrasing, don't have it here right now to refer back to) he doesn't sob, he curls in on himself and is utterly self-contained and closed off - even when Sherlock hugs him he remains curled in on himself.

[Pseudonym]

Forgot to add, and my phone won't let me edit, it's the lack of an apology that tips it over from being bad and human to just being bad.

[Arcadia]

Drat, I would stumble into this just as it becomes time to go to work. I really need to retire so I can spend my days here.

 

But quickly, before I forget what I was thinking, so maybe I can pick it up and clarify later...

 

1. Humanity, human ... they have multiple meanings ... or maybe it's nuances ... so they might fit everyone's use of the term. One of the meanings has to do with being humane, and another has to do with human nature ... which is, as we all know, seldom humane.

 

2. I think John did apologize, more than once ... just not with the words "I'm sorry." As usual, he found a less direct way (because God forbid John should ever reveal himself by speaking directly ) but when I get a chance I'll try to show why I think he did, and rather handsomely.