John Watson

[T.o.b.y]

When we meet John in S1, he can definitely afford to take some risks. He is single, childless and has very little to loose, his life is pretty empty and "nothing happens". It makes perfect sense from his point of view to disregard the warnings of people like Donovan and Mycroft and to stick with the person who offers him purpose and opportunity to use his skills.

 

Also, John has a very positive reference for Sherlock in Lestrade, clearly an upstanding, decent member of the police who trusts Sherlock with delicate information and gives him access to crime scenes.

[Pseudonym]

If I was out and about with someone new, and someone who already knew them told me they were a psycho and likely to murder someone someday I'd be pretty wary. But the fact she immediately calls Sherlock a freak, whilst Sherlock calls her Sally, makes her seem like nothing more than a bully so maybe that's why John takes her warnings with a pinch of salt. 

[Artemis]

But the fact she immediately calls Sherlock a freak, whilst Sherlock calls her Sally, makes her seem like nothing more than a bully so maybe that's why John takes her warnings with a pinch of salt. 

 

Yeah, frankly that's what I would have thought if I were him.

 

 

[Arcadia]

It IS what I thought. On the other hand, unlike John, I knew before I met him who Sherlock Holmes is.

[Pseudonym]

I'm always a bit torn on whether I think Donovan and Anderson are bullies or not. 

[Artemis]

"Bully" might (or might not) be too strong a word, but in any case if you call someone "Freak" like it's their name my respect for you will automatically plummet.

 

 

[Pseudonym]

I don't know, I think they try to bully him, but because it's Sherlock he doesn't really care and is sharp enough to give as good as he gets. However, if they treated someone else like that, someone who was a bit more sensitive, it would definitely be bullying. 

 

I think maybe it comes down to a few things;

 

1. Do they only treat Sherlock that way because he's said and done unpleasant things to them in the past? Are they naturally inclined to be that way to someone they perceive as different or is it uniquely to him?

 

2. Whether you believe Sherlock does have an element of Asperger's or not. 

 

3. Whether you believe Sherlock intends (or intended upon first meeting Anderson and Donovan) to cause offence or whether he's just oblivious. 

 

4. Whether you think it does secretly bother Sherlock deep down to be called Freak or if he genuinely doesn't care. It can't be a pleasant thing to be called. 

[Arcadia]

I think if he didn't care he wouldn't try to hurt them back.

[Pseudonym]

Ah yes, good point. Well it is bullying then. Just because he doesn't seem upset about it they are still blatantly picking on him just because they don't like him. 

 

Not to mention they see he possibly has a new friend and immediately try to sabotage it. 

[Artemis]

I think he does care.  But I don't think it matters all that much how much he cares or whether he can give just as good back; their intent is what matters, and what makes it bullying (or not).

 

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Well yes, freak, I never like Donovan because of that.

There could be more stories behind, but TRF make me believe that they are merely picking on Sherlock because to them, he is unbelievably good and in return, make them look like idiots. Of course, Sherlock being Sherlock, he doesn't bother to make that sounds/looks better, especially in my imagination, they probably always tried to counter Sherlock, but unsuccessfully and each time made them look worse in brain department. Add to the fact that they find it hard to believe that someone has that kind of passion with crime but not a psychopath.

 

All those (and Sherlock's retaliation, which I agree is indication that he is hurt by that) make me resent them more. However, Anderson kind of 'redeem' himself as eventhough some find it cringe worthy, I find it's nice that he is willing to admit he was wrong and tried to 'fix' and feeling sorry about it. While Donovan, no, we weren't shown any impacts of her wrongly accused and destroyed Sherlock's reputation. In fact she was still shown making faces when Lestrade was willing to jump on Sherlock's so called emergency in TSoT. So yah, I still hate her. Hmppph.

 

Also, John has a very positive reference for Sherlock in Lestrade, clearly an upstanding, decent member of the police who trusts Sherlock with delicate information and gives him access to crime scenes.

Good point, well put.

This, and my take on Anderson and Donovan above, actually make me appreciate Lestrade a lot. Always. He is the most dramaless character and always look at things in objective way.

Although I'm sucker for Sherl's brain, I think Lestrade is the most fun to hang out with and probably be as equally good friend as Sherlock.

[Pseudonym]

I think Lestrade would be a good mate, someone you could go to the pub with and unload (in as manly a way as possible of course). Going from the way he treats Sherlock, even when Sherlock is being a complete b*stard to him, he seems pretty understanding and non-judgemental. I want a Lestrade, lol. 

[Artemis]

Well yes, freak, I never like Donovan because of that.

There could be more stories behind, but TRF make me believe that they are merely picking on Sherlock because to them, he is unbelievably good and in return, make them look like idiots. Of course, Sherlock being Sherlock, he doesn't bother to make that sounds/looks better, especially in my imagination, they probably always tried to counter Sherlock, but unsuccessfully and each time made them look worse in brain department. Add to the fact that they find it hard to believe that someone has that kind of passion with crime but not a psychopath.

 

All those (and Sherlock's retaliation, which I agree is indication that he is hurt by that) make me resent them more. However, Anderson kind of 'redeem' himself as eventhough some find it cringe worthy, I find it's nice that he is willing to admit he was wrong and tried to 'fix' and feeling sorry about it. While Donovan, no, we weren't shown any impacts of her wrongly accused and destroyed Sherlock's reputation. In fact she was still shown making faces when Lestrade was willing to jump on Sherlock's so called emergency in TSoT. So yah, I still hate her. Hmppph.

 

Also, John has a very positive reference for Sherlock in Lestrade, clearly an upstanding, decent member of the police who trusts Sherlock with delicate information and gives him access to crime scenes.

Good point, well put.

This, and my take on Anderson and Donovan above, actually make me appreciate Lestrade a lot. Always. He is the most dramaless character and always look at things in objective way.

Although I'm sucker for Sherl's brain, I think Lestrade is the most fun to hang out with and probably be as equally good friend as Sherlock.

 

 

I agree, I thought Anderson was genuinely remorseful so he's alright now in my book.

 

And Lestrade is the best!  He is so patient and very compassionate, I think.  He tries to do the right thing and he's a good friend.  Also the way he greeted Sherlock when he came "back from the dead" made me happy, lol.

 

 

[Pseudonym]

Yea that was really good, great mix of annoyed and happy. No punching!

[Carol the Dabbler]

...  is it reasoned with that lousy very arguably line that he is addicted to danger?

 

I don't think John's behavior in ASiP had much to do with trust or loyalty at all, personally.

 

When we meet John in S1, he can definitely afford to take some risks. He is single, childless and has very little to loose, his life is pretty empty and "nothing happens". It makes perfect sense from his point of view to disregard the warnings of people like Donovan and Mycroft and to stick with the person who offers him purpose and opportunity to use his skills.

 

I think all of the above summarizes my thoughts pretty neatly.  At the beginning of ASiP, John is feeling bored, useless, and unwanted.  After Sherlock invites him along to a crime scene, he isn't.  To me, that seems pretty adequate to explain what some people (including a few Moftisses) have interpreted as him being an adrenaline junkie.

[Arcadia]

All those (and Sherlock's retaliation, which I agree is indication that he is hurt by that) make me resent them more. However, Anderson kind of 'redeem' himself as eventhough some find it cringe worthy, I find it's nice that he is willing to admit he was wrong and tried to 'fix' and feeling sorry about it. While Donovan, no, we weren't shown any impacts of her wrongly accused and destroyed Sherlock's reputation. In fact she was still shown making faces when Lestrade was willing to jump on Sherlock's so called emergency in TSoT. So yah, I still hate her. Hmppph.

 

 

I have absolutely no proof for this, but I like to think the scenes with the lady cop in T6T were meant for Donovan. Moftiss said they wrote a part for her but the actress wasn't available ... so I've convinced myself they just gave the lines to another woman instead. And it makes me happy to hear her lines and believe they're coming from Donovan's lips. It's the best thing in the whole episode. :d

 

 

And Lestrade is the best!  He is so patient and very compassionate, I think.  He tries to do the right thing and he's a good friend.  Also the way he greeted Sherlock when he came "back from the dead" made me happy, lol.

 

Me too. Somebody needed to give that boy a hug. And Sherlock didn't look to me like he minded all that much, either.

[Van Buren Supernova]

My opinion of her would be better if that scene was originally intended for Donovan. But since it didn't happen..

I only watched it once, but as far as I remember, Unaired Pilot version of Donovan is nicer.

 

Lestrade silver fox appreciation from many! :D :D :D Of course, and plus point, he hates wedding too

 

I guess regarding his trust with Sherlock, John has a workable formula that seems very reliable since the beginning,"nobody could fake being such an annoying dick all the time" :D so he most likely is real deal. (eventhough that should probably make him wary with the warnings :D)

 

 

 

I remember reading that some of you agree and some disagree with John's statement that Sherlock is the best and wisest man. (Wait.. is it from the book? Wisest is the term I remember, but when I check Ariane DeVere I couldn't find wisest. Or is it another episode? Rusty me.

 

JOHN (thoughtfully): Um ... mmm. (He pulls himself together a little.) You ... you told me once that you weren’t a hero. Umm ... there were times I didn’t even think you were human, but let me tell you this: you were the best man, and the most human ... human being that I’ve ever known and no-one will ever convince me that you told me a lie, and so ... There.

 

What make John thinks that way that you agree?

The most human, wisest?

Or what make you disagree?

 

I know it sounds like a stretch but I agree that Sherlock is very wise, in his own not ordinary way. I like to elaborate but maybe later when I steal more time from work.

[Artemis]

The "best and wisest" line is from TEH, when John thinks they're about to explode in the train car.  (It is also in the books.)

John: "You were the best and the wisest man that I have ever known.  And yes, of course I forgive you."

It's not the line I objected to, but the timing of it.  I thought it felt out of place in that scene.  Perhaps if he had said it at the grave in TRF instead...

I think whether you view Sherlock as "wise" depends on how you're defining it.  There are different kinds of wisdom and varying connotations of the word.

 

 

[Pseudonym]

I always thought the forced train apology was badly done, it was underhanded of Sherlock and I think forced John to say he forgave him before he was really ready to. I wonder if they did that deliberately with the idea of there being a big confrontation later where John finally loses it, or was it unplanned and it's only viewing it retroactively that it seems to tie in to the beating?

[Artemis]

I don't think it was planned.

[Pseudonym]

Shame really, perhaps it would have made more sense if it was, and if we'd seen John's anger building. 

[T.o.b.y]

I don't think it matters much for the narrative how much was planned in advance, it can still hold together in universe.

[Pseudonym]

I don't know, it matters to me. I'd definitely prefer if it was. It would seem cleverer and like they do actually plan these things out in advance, not just sit around and go 'wouldn't it be cool if John suddenly beat up Sherlock?'

If a series earlier they said, 'what is Sherlock tricks forgiveness out of John, and then we see him still being a side-kick but these little glimmers of anger building and building until... he beats up Sherlock.' 

I'm not a fan of happy coincidences when by trying to find the motivation for something you can look back and say something might fit. The attack may have had nothing to do with the forced forgiveness and John's anger with the fall, perhaps it was supposed to be solely about Mary's death, but it doesn't make any sense to me unless there was already some lingering resentment for it to build on.

[Shadow Dweller]

Speculation, perhaps because John's own sense of failure of saving Mary? He was a battlefield surgeon after all.

[Pseudonym]

But that doesn't explain, to me at least, why Sherlock was the poor sod who took the brunt of it.