Sherlock (the BBC character)

[T.o.b.y]

I'm still trying to sort out the I still didn‘t decide how mad (and if at all) (and at whom actually) I am, because what we have taken for wit and teasing the fandom, are just sloppiness and lack of communication between the writers.

 

IMO art always is a kind of Rorschach blot. What we see is influenced by what is inside us, which is not necessarily what the author intended.

But I‘ve a unpleasant suspicion, that Sherlock might be more a Rorschach blot than other pieces of art (and a lot more than we thought it was). That it‘s not a picture at all but a chaotic spread of accidental patches. :P

 

PS: I think this picture perfectly describes how I feel about the series. And I think I’m not alone.

 

Erm… I think it’s wrong thread again…

Not necessarily. I can move it elsewhere if you want though, just tell me where you want it (and be patient cause it might be a while before I have the opportunity to use my laptop instead of my phone).

 

Am I the only person around here who does not feel massively disillusioned and / or disgruntled about the series? I still like it fine. Heck, I even still think it's clever!

 

The biggest blow to my little fan heart came with series 3, The Empty Hearse. I had absolutely zero expectations for series 4 and a lot of negative premonitions and was actually pleasantly surprised. I do sorrowfully admit that I consider it to contain some bad writing, namely Mary's death scene and Eurus' murder maze, but there were plenty of lovely bits to make up for that.

 

Above all, I thought it was fun. Really fun. Yeah, it's very fannish. So what? I am a fan! :-P

 

To me, it doesn't really matter that much whether something is clever and makes sense on purpose or in spite of itself. The original Doyle stories for example I consider mediocre at best and clearly written for money. Doyle cared so little about his creation that he didn't even bother to remember Dr Watson's Christian name or the location of his war wound and the characterization of Holmes is inconsistent. Still, he created a legend that I have the highest respect for and a character I fell madly in love with.

 

My only complaint at the moment is that I don't have time to rewatch series 4 (or watch any TV at all for that matter). I miss Sherlock.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I love the show. Just re-watched TLD last night (wasn't about to do TFP with my sister around milling about because of what happens to Victor).

[J.P.]

I suspect I (and some others) have manoeuvred myself into a similar corner as JLs did. Only that my endgame was clever, perfectly logical and consistent structure. I wanted it to be clever - that's my weakness. :(

Okay, back on track.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Maybe it really is clever -- possibly just a tad too clever for my taste, in fact. Why have you decided that it's not?

 

I won't argue with you regarding consistent -- though for a television show, it's pretty damn close.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Am I the only person around here who does not feel massively disillusioned and / or disgruntled about the series?

Nope. You are not alone, I like it fine as well. I also remember feeling a lot of things after TLD and TFP. And residual feelings mean the show manages to get me on certain level.

 

Yes, I do b*tch about it but I b*tch about everything. So it's fair game.

The difference that I feel though, I haven't gathered the mood to rewatch it. There is certain lazyness not to go there, yet. Not sure why. But I need to because I'm forgetting things. The mood... why is it not there?

 

Other than that, yah, I'm quite happy about it. The first season that I follow live.

[Arcadia]

Yes, I'm still adore the series, I just hate T6T. :D I managed to keep my expectations for S4 fairly low, I think; all I've ever really "expected" of the series was to see Sherlock become Greg's "good man," and I'm satisfied with the way they achieved that.

 

And really, my biggest complaint about T6T is the way it's filmed, not the story it tells. I agree there's some poor writing in it, but not THAT poor. Not so poor that a more professional production couldn't have glossed it up some. I still maintain that the biggest problem with Mary's death scene is not the script, but the staging. It's static. Compare it to Sherlock's two "death" scenes. Or anyone else's, really. Even Soo Lin's was more compelling.

 

I don't mind TFP so much; it will never be a favorite, because it's too grim, and again, it doesn't "look" right. It looks more like what Sherlock would have been if they had stuck to the style they had in the pilot, imo. Serviceable, but not special. The plot's okay with me, I just don't think they pulled it off very well, primarily because it's too rushed. The story's too big for the episode.

 

And of course I love TLD, it's definitely in my top five. I think it's brilliant. 

[T.o.b.y]

I love Sherlock in The Lying Detective (to get back on topic). It shows his full range, from utterly crazy to frightfully calculating, from totally broken to at the top of his game, from hatred to love, gentleness to violence, childish to totally mature.

[Arcadia]

And funny. Even high, he manages to make me laugh my head off.

 

I haven't felt much like rewatching S4 either ... until recently, and now I don't have the time. (I can't bear to watch the episodes in bits ... I  have to see the whole thing at once, for some reason.) I wonder if part of it is the ending ... it seems so final. There's no reason to look for clues to the future like there have been with the other seasons. Maybe. I don't think that's the only reason, though. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I feel the same way, not as eager to rewatch, only in my case it's both S3 and S4. Odd, since in general I like S4 better than S3 -- you'd think I'd be more interested in rewatching it. But it feels like each episode has its drawback -- T6T has Mary's death, TLD has Culverton Smith (the most annoying baddie yet), and TFP has all that mayhem (I have a fairly low mayhem threshold). Plus, as with you, my tv-watching time is severely limited right now, so when I do have any, I prefer something a bit less stressful. I would put S1 and S2 in the low-stress category, but S3 and S4 (especially their third episodes) leave me feeling a bit put-upon.

[bedelia1984]

I'm another that still loves the show- if it ends there, it is still one of my top shows ever. It's just season 4 that is not my favourite- though TLD is one of my favourite episodes of the whole show.

 

I think it is hard to re-watch season 4 because everything is so final, from Mary's death to the book-ending of Lestrade's line in TFP. It makes me really sad to think it might be genuinely over.

 

Even TLD is hard for me to re-watch, though I love it, because of the seeds they are sowing for TFP and the culmination of the emotional aftermath of Mary's death- I loved that that moment between Sherlock and John happened, but it is also another of those moments that is so personal it is almost hard to watch.

[mishab]

I am pretty much done with the show. As a life long Watsonian I thought this show would do something different with the character and give him proper justice. the writers may have pulled him out from the literary hell hole that is a sidekick but they have only pushed him into another archetype ie the 'damsel in distress'. S4 showed they have run out of ideas for him and future episodes are only going to be even more Sherlock centric than before with john pushed to background playing the supportive friend like they did in TFP.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I am pretty much done with the show. As a life long Watsonian I thought this show would do something different with the character and give him proper justice. the writers may have pulled him out from the literary hell hole that is a sidekick but they have only pushed him into another archetype ie the 'damsel in distress'. S4 showed they have run out of ideas for him and future episodes are only going to be even more Sherlock centric than before with john pushed to background playing the supportive friend like they did in TFP.

 

As someone who became a Watsonian due to watching Martin Freeman's performances in S1-S2, I can only hope you're wrong, and that our beloved spunky John will return in S5.

[J.P.]

Maybe it really is clever -- possibly just a tad too clever for my taste, in fact. Why have you decided that it's not?

 

To use a metaphor: S4 is still a nice tailored suit, but the seams are visible.

 

There is nothing about the consequences of Sherlock being saved from the deadly mission. The solution feels incredibly forced and is not realistic at all (there were a whole bunch of people witnessing the incident, maybe even including CAMs staff).

The omnipotence of Eurus.

The two/three weeks predictions of Sherlock. Eurus hitting on John. Eurus shooting John with a tranquilizer.

Sherrinford with the funny guards in suits and woollen caps.

The non existent glass with a huge etched warning floating in the air. (there is NO BEEPING WAY of not noticing, there was no glass in this room. Sound of your own voice, echo, sound of the fabric as she moved, air movement, warmth of the body, etc, etc.)

The shooting of AJ, not to mention shooting of Mary.

The explosion - you see that they had to make it huge, because they needed the rumours of missing Sherlock (WTF?) and hospitalized Mycroft, so the trio can go to Sherrinford incognito <- a very visible seam.

We can think that it was Eurus behind the Moriarty broadcast, but who the heck knows - nobody tells us.

The totally overdone prank on Mycroft.

The scene with the nurses in TLD and the nonsensical fact that people in that room all agreed to listen to CS and then forget about it - because there would be no other way for Faith to have only very blurred memories of the moment. <- another seam, that is actually not even necessary, because how Sherlock could check the facts not seeing the real Faith in his life.

The Anyone deduction that looks brilliant but is not a deduction at all, it's a vision. Sherlock has NO DATA to process, he couldn't even extract the information telepathically, because - again - it wasn't Faith he met.

The forced inclusion of Moriarty that brings absolutely nothing to the all over storyline.

John who is mad at Sherlock but still brings him a parting gift.

Eurus apparently alone in Musgrave, but still being able to float the well. (how do you float a well?)

The funny fake(!) gravestones in the backyard, because Sherlock needed a key for the riddle.

The changes of 221B set.

 

I could probably find more of this.

Just too much of BS to keep my disbelief suspended.

 

The reason for Sherlock being Sherlock - unbelievable even in the series' universe.

 

I probably also cannot forgive the makers, that they so easily went for caring is an advantage now, Sherlock is a good man, and he is the best surrogate father to little Rosie.

…even if I should expect this, as it seems to be the one actually consistent motif through S1-S4, the humanizing of Sherlock, the character I could relate because of LACK of his so called humanity (aka sentiment). :P

[Arcadia]

Would a hug help? Wait, no, introvert, right ...

 

How about a slap on the back of the head? No, sorry, sorry, that might hurt ....

 

Would you like me to offer some counter arguments to some of your points? Hm, mumble, that might make it worse...

 

How about if I agree with you about #'s 1, 6, 8, 9, 13 and 16 and keep my mouth shut about the rest? :d

 

I'm not sure what you mean by floating a well ... do you mean filling it with water? I wondered about that too, but people drown in wells all the time so I sort of disregarded it. But I'll grant you that one too, if you like. :p

 

 

[J.P.]

Yes, filling the well with water. People drown when they fall into full ones.

 

Which actually makes me wonder how poor Victor died. Did Eurus just push him and he fell into the water? But in this scenario the time to solve the riddle would be very short. So she actually didn't tell where the body was.

 

What would help? Maybe CS' wonder drug erasing memories?
 

That's the thing that's bothers me the most - S4 managed to spread in my brain and somehow spoil all past experiences. Hence the picture - when you realize that the wonderful memories you have about Santa visiting you at Christmas - that it was just uncle Joe with a fake beard.

 

Stupid brain.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree with an awful lot of what you said, J.P., but I'm not terribly surprised by much of it.  I mean, look at the "resolution" of Reichenbach in Empty Hearse.  Our dear Moftisses are really good at setting up bizarre circumstances, but they rarely bother actually explaining them, at least not to my satisfaction.  So S4 is nothing new in that regard, in my opinion.

[J.P.]

It's not the presence of said visible seams. It's the concentration of them in S4.

You mean the jump? Well, Sherlock did it somehow, and even if the explanations might be made up, he planned it. He executed one of the possible solutions. :P

 

Which is a bit different from being blown out of the window in the second floor by a big bang, which was set up by the evil sis - despite a huge chance she could kill the toys she wanted to play with. Having a fake grenade, or a grenade filled with red paint ruining the wallpapers, or firecrackers - it would be enough to demonstrate her power, but then there would be no missing Scherl and dying Myc needed for the next stage of the story. It's so damn obvious.

[bedelia1984]

I agree with that, J.P., you can forgive a little liberty taken every now and again in terms of believability but they do rather pile up in season 4.

 

About your earlier question about how Victor died, I had assumed he was tied down with chains as John was, but logistically this seems unlikely for someone Eurus' size at the time to pull off- unless there was a tunnel? It's a bit like her custom fake glass- technically these things are possible, but because they would be so logistically difficult it is hard to believe they would happen in real life.

 

I think that showed a hint of laziness in some of the writing this time around- the fact that once they had something that could by any stretch of the imagination occur, they no longer felt the need to delve deeper or write something that felt more natural in terms of the story.

[gerry]

Season 3 is the season I really had no interest in rewatching except for TEH. I've rewatched TLD and TFP but I won't rewatch T6T because it was really dull.

 

I agree with an awful lot of what you said, J.P., but I'm not terribly surprised by much of it. I mean, look at the "resolution" of Reichenbach in Empty Hearse. Our dear Moftisses are really good at setting up bizarre circumstances, but they rarely bother actually explaining them, at least not to my satisfaction. So S4 is nothing new in that regard, in my opinion.

For me, the lack of emotional follow thru is worse than their lack of plot follow thru. For instance not following up on the ILY call yet they knew to follow up the John beating Sherlock at the end of TLD and they did something for Eurus with the violin duet and the parents scene at the end of TFP but even that attempt was done half way. I guess they just pick and choose what emotional beats are important to them? Dunno.

 

I think that showed a hint of laziness in some of the writing this time around...

This in a nutshell has been a problem in the writing for awhile now. Like how the supposed theme of the series was to show Sherlock as a good man but they didn't really show him that way. They just told you he was. They've done a lot more telling than showing in their writing in season 3 and 4. They were too busy writing the extreme plots that they didn't do satisfying character moments that were all over seasons 1 and 2.

[T.o.b.y]

It's not the presence of said visible seams. It's the concentration of them in S4.

You mean the jump? Well, Sherlock did it somehow, and even if the explanations might be made up, he planned it. He executed one of the possible solutions. :P

 

Which is a bit different from being blown out of the window in the second floor by a big bang, which was set up by the evil sis - despite a huge chance she could kill the toys she wanted to play with. Having a fake grenade, or a grenade filled with red paint ruining the wallpapers, or firecrackers - it would be enough to demonstrate her power, but then there would be no missing Scherl and dying Myc needed for the next stage of the story. It's so damn obvious.

 

Yes, the grenade scene makes no sense but I must admit I loved it. I love how Mycroft and Sherlock analyze the situation very calmly and then it all goes boom. I like that contrast. One of the things I have always valued the most about Sherlock Holmes is his being so calm, rational and in control in the most absurd and / or dangerous circumstances. As someone who is very easily scared and flustered myself, I find that very soothing. That's why I think I could actually stand him as a colleague, for example; he'd be an a-hole on a daily basis and leave me to do all the dirty work but when push came to shove, he'd be right there saving the day. I have worked with men like that (though of course not as brilliant) before and we got along amazingly well.

 

[J.P.]

Unfortunately I am very allergic to BS in movies - that's why Interstellar and Prometheus were so hard to bear.

 

My brain sits in the corner sulking and denies everything that was good in S4, and it was a lot, I know.

Somehow the good things and the bad ones seem not to belong together. It's like listening to music without middle frequencies - you hear only the bass and the treble and nothing in between. :P

[Arcadia]

I liked the grenade scene too, for the same reasons. Yes, the boom was silly and over the top, but so is beating a corpse with a riding crop. Everything about Sherlock as a character is outsized. That's part of the fun. But I agree, sometimes it works better than other times.

 

Hey, look, I actually managed to get on topic! And I wasn't even trying. This will be a good day. :p

 

[Arcadia]

Unfortunately I am very allergic to BS in movies - that's why Interstellar and Prometheus were so hard to bear.

 

My brain sits in the corner sulking and denies everything that was good in S4, and it was a lot, I know.

Somehow the good things and the bad ones seem not to belong together. It's like listening to music without middle frequencies - you hear only the bass and the treble and nothing in between. :P

 

Oops, cross-posted ... maybe it won't be such a good day after all.

 

I understand ... I was very discouraged by the last season of Star Trek, for example, and at the time it sort of discolored the whole series. Same with Buffy; the final season was a mess, imo. 

 

But all these years later they're still two of my all-time favorite shows, and I will happily watch an episode when I get a chance (as long as it's not Spock's Brain; puh-lease! ) Not every day, not all the time, but it's like meeting a dear old friend when I do see one, and I marvel anew at  how wonderful it all was, and fall a little bit in love all over again.

 

So maybe that's how it will work out for you and Sherlock, JP. I hope so.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I was very discouraged by the last season of Star Trek, for example, and at the time it sort of discolored the whole series. Same with Buffy; the final season was a mess, imo. 

 

But all these years later they're still two of my all-time favorite shows, and I will happily watch an episode when I get a chance (as long as it's not Spock's Brain; puh-lease! )

 

Hey, don't knock my favorite episode!  :P

[gerry]

My brain sits in the corner sulking and denies everything that was good in S4, and it was a lot, I know.

Somehow the good things and the bad ones seem not to belong together. It's like listening to music without middle frequencies - you hear only the bass and the treble and nothing in between. :P

This is how I felt about the end of TFP. I was very engrossed in the episode but then I got to the end which basically ruined the episode for me because I realized ultimately nothing changed and it was a bunch of death and mayhem without any consequences so all the trials in the end were pointless and instead were just intended to manipulate an emotional reaction out of the audience. However I did like a lot of TFP and the acting was very good so when I've rewatched the episode I just stopped it before it got to the end so I could appreciate what I did like about it. In the end I utilized that denial technique you're talking about by pretending the end didn't happen!