Sherlock Fandom - The Good, the Bad And the WTF?

[Boton]

Exactly, JP. Although I'm not a Gemini, so I prefer to say that I'm a typical Perceiver in that regard ... my opinions are always in flux. Well, that's not quite right ... not all my opinions, and not always. But I tend to be what other people might call "wishy-washy". I have a different term for it, one far more flattering to myself, but I'll let y'all deduce it for yourselves lest I come across as too stuck up. :P

 

 

 

I'm just the opposite, Arcadia.  I'm a Scorpio, and a Judger, so I tend to form pretty concrete opinions very quickly.  I love great fora like this, because I try to challenge myself to consider other opinions and perspectives and see if they work better than my own, and this is a very nice group of people with whom to do that!  

[Arcadia]

Again ... exactly. I think I form opinions pretty quickly too, but I recognize that they are often only half-formed. And if understanding requires an emotional response, it's even harder for me to process. I'm pretty good at logical conclusions, I think, and frequently with intuitive ones; but I often struggle with emotional ones. I always go back to HLV, which is the episode that drove me to this forum; it left me a mass of raw feelings, and I couldn't figure out what they were or why I had them! Ugh! I had a similar (but less intense) response to TFP, so I plunged right into the discussion this time just to help me sort things out. (Still sorting, by the way.)
 
You gals (and guys) didn't know you were a therapy group? Well, now you know! :D

[J.P.]

It's in a kind better than a therapy group, because you do the most of the work alone.

I wrote it once, if you are sitting in front of a therapist, it's always a kind of confrontation. If you see your own trait (good or bad)  in someone you identify yourself wirh, your defense is down. Worked for me. :D

 

Exactly, JP. Although I'm not a Gemini, so I prefer to say that I'm a typical Perceiver in that regard ... my opinions are always in flux. Well, that's not quite right ... not all my opinions, and not always.

 

I think for most of the things there is no need of having an opinion at all.

[Arcadia]

I must've been really lucky; I had a very good, very non-confrontational relationship with both my therapists. But that was after I refused to go back and see the first one; the first thing she did was reduce me to tears, which I didn't find helpful at all! But the other two were great. I still feel like I owe them my sanity. Them, and the nurse I first talked to, who was sooooo kind and understanding that she made me cry too, but in a good way. That's why I always encourage people to at least give it a try; maybe it won't be any good, but maybe they'll get lucky, like I did. My only regret is that I didn't go to them sooner! (Of course, this was back when I had health care coverage, and could afford it ... god knows what I'd do now. Hope I don't have to find out.... )

[Van Buren Supernova]

Eh...e...e... what are you guys doing exactly, patting each other back?

Isn't therapy supposed to help you get out from something, addiction, obsession, like those AA?

Well, as far as I know, all you do is just make me sink deeper and deeper? And you call yourself therapy group? Hm?? Hmmm?? Hmmmmmmmmmmm??

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hey, we're not AA! We're a *support* group -- meaning, of course, that we help support your Sherlock addiction.

[Van Buren Supernova]

My introversion kicks not only because of opinions, it's just that I feel like attending a party where everyone wants to say something. There are good discussions, but sometimes good things are buried because there are lack of listeners. And by the time I finish reading the posts, which multiple in scary number everytime I log in, there are few more new pages and those I wanted to respond to already change their mind or it had been discussed. Just can't keep up! Tried to join all the threads from beginning, but have to opt out for now. It's fine and common I suppose, great to see people are passionate and new members. But I am just overwhelmed. The crowd. :p I am just a party sneaker. Not crashing into a pary, but sneak out.

 

 

I'm just the opposite, Arcadia.  I'm a Scorpio, and a Judger, so I tend to form pretty concrete opinions very quickly.

 

Same here. Aquarius judger, pretty high in jerk thermostat. I have my own opinions and theories, but reading others sometimes make me see views I don't see, which in turn refine or challenge mine, which are fine and fun, as long as there are logical explanations. I have little patience for those "this is trash" without proper backups or good reasoning.

 

@therapy.

I think therapy is not that common outside US and Europe? I'm not sure. The idea is foreign to me except from movies and TVs. Don't think I need one though, I barely share my problems, especially the unhappy ones, because sharing it make me feel more vulnerable and difficult because I mostly don't want to talk about them. People who are close to me have enough problems of their own, which they do share with me, and complaint that I don't. They are capable to help, but I mostly know the theoretical solutions to my problems, so not sure if they can add anything more but to make me feel sad by talking about it and making me worse as the result. So I mostly keep my sadness and vulnerability to myself, there are probably only exactly one person in this world who knows about me more than you guys. Is that make me weird? But I feel ok.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Hey, we're not AA! We're a *support* group -- meaning, of course, that we help support your Sherlock addiction.

O-okay.. but you are not therapy group either yes??

:p

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I feel like attending a party where everyone wants to say something. There are good discussions, but sometimes good things are buried because there are lack of listeners.

 

I've been to parties like that (*shudder*), and that's a very apt comparison to the episode threads after a new series runs. I don't know what to do about it either. I suppose I'll wander in there eventually, pick up some ideas and perhaps contribute a few of my own. But I'm not the sort of person who's first in line for the big 80% off sale, either.

 

Regarding therapy, I went to a very helpful therapist (MSW, not doctor) who taught me a number of great coping techniques. But then after dealing with panic attacks for seven years, I accidentally discovered that my "emotional problem" was actually an acute sensitivity to a common household product. So I haven't been back.

 

Which is not to say that I don't have problems, but like you say, so does everyone else, and they always seem to end up telling me theirs first, by which time I'm no longer in the mood to tell mine.

[Arcadia]

I seem to remember the rule of thumb is ... if you're problem is interfering with your ability to live your life, you probably should consider getting some help. But if you're coping, you're coping ... so carry on!

 

And yes, I think I misspoke ... support group, not therapy group. Definitely. I have the obsession to prove it. :p

[Boton]

My introversion kicks not only because of opinions, it's just that I feel like attending a party where everyone wants to say something. There are good discussions, but sometimes good things are buried because there are lack of listeners. And by the time I finish reading the posts, which multiple in scary number everytime I log in, there are few more new pages and those I wanted to respond to already change their mind or it had been discussed. Just can't keep up! Tried to join all the threads from beginning, but have to opt out for now. It's fine and common I suppose, great to see people are passionate and new members. But I am just overwhelmed. The crowd. :P I am just a party sneaker. Not crashing into a pary, but sneak out.

 

 

@therapy.

I think therapy is not that common outside US and Europe? I'm not sure. The idea is foreign to me except from movies and TVs. Don't think I need one though, I barely share my problems, especially the unhappy ones, because sharing it make me feel more vulnerable and difficult because I mostly don't want to talk about them. People who are close to me have enough problems of their own, which they do share with me, and complaint that I don't. They are capable to help, but I mostly know the theoretical solutions to my problems, so not sure if they can add anything more but to make me feel sad by talking about it and making me worse as the result. So I mostly keep my sadness and vulnerability to myself, there are probably only exactly one person in this world who knows about me more than you guys. Is that make me weird? But I feel ok.

 

 

I agree about the party atmosphere here right now, which is kind of fun but is a bit too much for me, too.  I think, when we can break down into the subthreads without spoiler protection, it will be easier.  For example, I'm ready to talk about Mycroft and Lady Smallwood, just for fun, but I don't feel like something that minor belongs in the big episode threads just yet.

 

Re: Therapy.  I had to take some counseling classes in graduate school, and they more or less convinced me that I'd never benefit from therapy.  Most of the time, if I have an issue, I need someone to help me make sense of all my thoughts instead of someone asking me continually how something made me feel or what strategies I can devise to cope.  That may not be a terribly fair representation of all types of therapy, but it was enough to make me shy away from such things.

[Arcadia]

Yes, that was my perception of therapy, until I got into it. Like I said, I think I must have been lucky. After the first lady, who was more interested in deconstructing my personality, imo .... they did exactly what you describe ... helped me make sense of what was happening to me (which in this case was a hormonal imbalance leading to acute anxiety). And yes, helped me figure out how to cope with all the weirdness until the medicines kicked in and evened me out ... it takes them awhile. I took a lot of walks in the interim!

 

So, if you ever do end up in therapy, my advice is ... if the therapist's style is not to your liking, find a different one. Maybe you'll get lucky too.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Walking is good! That was one coping technique I'd figured out for myself before I ever saw a therapist. Oh, and I hit a dud the first time too -- but he could also see that we were mismatched, and recommended someone who worked out just fine.

[Arcadia]

Yeah, walking was sort of instinctive, I couldn't really help myself.

[J.P.]

Why, oh why, did I ever start to dig into it. I was such a little happy fan. Even if Information is power - Ignorance is bliss.

http://cloakstone69.tumblr.com/

[Shadow Dweller]

*snort* That make me grateful for once for my conservative family for they carved permanently in my mind that the world doesn't owe me anything. My life is my own responsibility. I am most likely asexual and I accept that as a fact of life. External validation is not necessary and I doesn't need to be represented by anyone else besides myself.

 

:P Those statements probably get disapproving look from some people because they expect more 'understanding' than that. Understanding is not the same with adopting the look myself and I'll let other people do the coddling. Rather than asking to be spared from the hurts (hello, this is real life and not pleasant-ville) I would rather forge my own way in life and reach position where I could influence others to accept (whether they like it or not) my design.

[T.o.b.y]

Why, oh why, did I ever start to dig into it. I was such a little happy fan. Even if Information is power - Ignorance is bliss.

http://cloakstone69.tumblr.com/

It's quite hard for me to formulate my thoughts on this (and similar complaints like it) without using massive spoilers for S4, so for the time being, I can only say that I sympathize with the viewer's disappointment. Having high hopes dashed to the ground hurts an awful lot, no matter how well founded (or not) they were.

 

I do take exception at the statement that the villains are all "textually queer". Can't comment on the most recent one, but as for the others she mentioned:

 

The Innkeepers in The Hounds of Baskerville were not villains. They were perfectly nice, normal people who made a bad decision to draw more tourists to the area. Hardly villainous. More like human.

 

Moriarty: Just because he played Jim from IT as gay does not mean he himself is. He certainly could be, but that's up for interpretation as much as Sherlock's own sexual orientation (or lack thereof). Besides, Moriarty is so much of a psychopath, I hesitate to use ordinary attributes like gay, straight or queer for him at all.

 

Magnussen: Huh? When did we learn anything about his sexual orientation? He was a creepy dude who licked Lady Smallwood's face, period. If that's supposed to be code for "queer", I am now very much offended on behalf of all non-straight people.

 

Irene: I forget whether she was even mentioned here but she's definitely a canonically queer character, yes. Not a villain so much as an antagonist in may eyes, but that's of course up for debate.

 

The only other explicitly gay character I can think of is Harry Watson, who never made an appearance and is certainly not described as a villain.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are a few gay characters on the show who I think are portrayed as just ordinary people and the villains' sexuality is mostly just as unclear (and possibly irrelevant) as the hero's.

[Shadow Dweller]

SHERLOCK the series is not about love story or sexual orientation, it is about a detective and the world he interacts with. The Holmes-Watson bromance is canon since the time ACD created his masterpiece and this modern version seems to follow that direction. The excellent synergy between both of them as a pair of detective and his blogger who undertake adventures together is too big to be slotted into just a tiny sliver of life such as romance. Romance will ruin that as we can see with Mr. and Mrs. Watson. Sherlock must not be tied down like that. Besides, with someone like that what is likely work with him is the attraction of the mind. Remember how many times he speak like John is slow on the uptake. The problem with people who needs mindmate is, eventually if the mate cannot fulfill that aspect of life they will search on the outside of the partnership. Heart divided, get it? If only Irene Adler make a return, she have potential to keep Sherlock on his toes.

[J.P.]

Toby, the problem is not how they see the series and that they are disappointed. It's that someone has the nerve, even to think about writing to the organisation Mark was supporting for years (alone his fans collected over 1000 pound for his birthday, he, Steven and Sue took part in a sport event together, he's always supportive of the LGBT rights) and say them they want Mark to resign. How this might be helpful for ANYONE in the world?

 

As I wrote so many times, it would be great to have representation. As gray asexual, almost gender neutral, left handed, introvert, highly sensitive, overweight women in her very late 40ies fighting with depression. But seriously, I was happy that the theme of asexuality was discussed because of Sherlock. It was the first time when I EVER saw the word asexual outside of the community webpages. And I've had quite a lot to do with therapists, psychologists and such in the last 16 years.

 

Re entitlement: I had to learn very soon, that the world won't change to meet my needs. I'm 100% with Shadow. 

 

Re representation: It's nice, but the political correctness of entertainment lately, starts to go on my nerves. When representation starts to be more important than quality it's the end of art and entertainment. BTW I'm also very sceptical about women "quota". We should deal with the roots of the problem, and not with the outcome.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Moriarty: Just because he played Jim from IT as gay does not mean he himself is. He certainly could be, but that's up for interpretation as much as Sherlock's own sexual orientation (or lack thereof). Besides, Moriarty is so much of a psychopath, I hesitate to use ordinary attributes like gay, straight or queer for him at all.

 

Indeed. And note that Moriarty played "Jim from IT" as gay for Sherlock after he had already played him as straight for Molly. So which is the truth? Either? Neither? Both?

 

Also, they missed one possibly-gay major character, namely Mycroft. In "Scandal," Sherlock jokingly refers to him as "the Queen,"and Mark Gatiss has been quoted as saying he thinks the character might be gay. Yet he does not seem to be a villain at all, merely a part-time antagonist / part-time ally.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Jim from IT, gay.

Jim Moriarty, to my understanding, not.

 

 

Sherlock Chronicles, page 117.

[Arcadia]

@JP ...  (But really, don't you think being left-handed is taking it just a little too far? :P)

[Fantasy Lover]

As a fellow left-handed, I disagree. After all, we were punished for that 50 years ago!

[Arcadia]

How dare you be born different!!!! XD

[J.P.]

Well, there are devices designed for left-handed people. Like scissors.

But even my stupid keyboard is designed to suit right handed people. Good I learned to use my right hand. Okay I'm probably ambidextrous (or whatever you call it).

BTW, I always wondered about the languages that write from right to left. They must be uncomfortable to write with right hand as writing with left hand is for us.