Subtext Interpretation... What Do You See?

[Van Buren Supernova]

Non hormonal romantic is definitely romantic.

 

Hormonal romantic is practically called lust. :p

[J.P.]

 

Hormonal romantic is practically called lust. :P

Or Shipyard. :P

[Arcadia]

Huh? (The only shipyard I know is a beer. :p )

 

I don't even particularly see "bromance" in most of those clips. Just a lot of John talking to (yelling at) Sherlock. Oh, and daring to look him in the eyes. Seriously, looking someone in the eyes represents lust, now? Jeez. If that's the case, then social situations are going to be a lot more awkward for me than they already are. I was taught that looking someone in the eyes when you conversed with them was simply good manners. How could I have been so deluded?

[J.P.]

A yard full of ships. Ships. SHIPS.

[Arcadia]

I prefer the beer. Seriously, it's really good beer.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Dictionary.com's definition based on Random House Dictionary:

 

Bromance: a relationship or friendship between two men that is extremely close but does not involve sex.

 

Maybe all the arguing could still apply.  My 10th grade English teacher told my class about 2 former students who argued all the time and ended up getting married so it's possible that John's and Sherlock's arguments could show their close bond.

[Bluebell]

That's so weird, I actually wrote a post mentioning MacGyver but somehow lost it and changed my mind what I wanted to say anyway. But yeah, that was a very successful show that explicitly had their hero refusing to use guns.

 

Is Scorpion like MacGyver? And here I thought it was just a Sherlock ripoff and stopped watching after a couple of episodes ... the characters didn't engage me at all. :( But if they're actively non-gun I might have to give them some love, just because.....

 

Yup, the Scorpion people SOMETIMES have a gun (usually the agent played by Robert Patrick has one for professional resons), but usually their problem - solving is hacking stuff and lots of Mission Impossible / MacGyver - moments. That is my view on the show, maybe other people see it different. At first I wasn't so intrigued by the characters either, I just knew Robert Patrick is in the show, who I think is always cool in his characters, but after watching a few episodes I liked it more and more, so I would say, give it another shot. Especially season 2 is fun and very adventurous. Sometimes a bit exaggerated, but well, Mission Impossible is too, isn't it? ;)

[Arcadia]

More exaggerated than Sherlock? :D

 

Next time I'm looking for something to watch and it happens to be on, I'll give Scorpion another try. My biggest problem was the main character; to me it looked like they were trying to clone Sherlock's brains and appearance, but the guy didn't have an ounce of SH's sass or charisma.

[Carol the Dabbler]

If you're looking for a show with engaging characters and minimal gun violence (though a fair amount of the physical kind -- often done for comedic effect), check out Leverage. Yeah, I realize I've mentioned it before (I think there's even a thread around here somewhere), but it's a beautifully-done show that deserves more attention.

[Arcadia]

I do watch that sometimes. It must not make enough of an impression on me, as I can't remember a thing about it. Also it's on one of those obscure channels where I don't know the schedule, that never helps. Is that the one with a group of retired policemen? I like that one, whichever it is ... but clearly, not enough to follow it.... :( ... I'm so shallow....

[Carol the Dabbler]

No, it's the one with the group of ex-thieves who make things right when someone is wronged in a technically legal way.

 

Alex and I got tired of chasing the broadcasts and bought the DVDs.

[Arcadia]

Yep, okay, that one. Yeah, it's enjoyable. I like the other one better. :P
 
Seriously, a show has to work hard to get my attention. I found the recent "Jazz" documentary to be riveting, that's one of the few shows where I actually stopped doing other things and watched. Ditto the one about Jackie Robinson. And I don't even normally care that much for documentaries, but I suspect it's because both of these touched on events that happened in my lifetime. Although I love the "Civil War" series, I watch it every time it's on.
 
But most scripted shows ... I'll get into one for a few episodes, then just drift away. I just discovered NCIS a year or so ago, I was quite the NCIS junkie, but they appear to have permanently pre-empted it in favor of wrestling. Story of my life. I'm amazed I haven't killed off Sherlock yet.

[Inge l-w]

Oh, but Arcadia, Sherlock comes in very highly concentrated doses for less than a month and then leaves havoc in its wake, with enough things in each episode to discuss until the next dose is released! I am very much afraid that the titular character is much safer off with his 7% solution than we are with the near-lethal doses of each episode making us higher than kites and then bringing us crashing down in flames of withdrawal! We are all Sherlock junkies in one form or another, sad to say.

[jadpdr]

That would be an unparalleled achievement: killing Sherlock Holmes! Not his own creator, not all the King's horses, nor all the King's men, and certainly not any incarnation of Moriarty (whose character is getting a bit worn around the edges) could manage that!

[Inge l-w]

Oh, my ears and whiskers! The Abominable Scot hid the greatest wink-wink, nudge-nudge TJLC hint in SIB, when Sherlock has followed John to the disused factory. Irene says: "Well, I am. Look at us both!" and immediately thereafter Mr Married to His Work receives her text message and leaves. Cut to a very starry-eyed consulting detective walking home: John had not refuted her claim, while he had been vociferously proclaiming "not gay" minutes before: ergo, bisexual John a distinct possibility, and certainly food for thought for a cerebral, socially and sexually inept man!

[Boton]

Oh, my ears and whiskers! The Abominable Scot hid the greatest wink-wink, nudge-nudge TJLC hint in SIB, when Sherlock has followed John to the disused factory. Irene says: "Well, I am. Look at us both!" and immediately thereafter Mr Married to His Work receives her text message and leaves. Cut to a very starry-eyed consulting detective walking home: John had not refuted her claim, while he had been vociferously proclaiming "not gay" minutes before: ergo, bisexual John a distinct possibility, and certainly food for thought for a cerebral, socially and sexually inept man!

 

Well, I can't fault your argument, but just to play devil's advocate here (because we got nothin' but time until the next season), I read that scene as saying that Sherlock has just discovered that he is the exception for both Irene and John, but in different ways:  she's sexually attracted to women, but she'd make the exception for Sherlock.  John forms relationships with women, but he's formed one with Sherlock.

 

I have always thought Sherlock was straight, and part of it is because of this scene: he's only stunned and moony over Irene's texts.

 

I'll never be convinced of a bisexual John, but this is probably the wrong thread (is it?) to argue that point.

 

I do think Irene is gay, as is Mycroft.  I think Moriarty would be, except that he is primarily opportunistic more than anything else based on preference or attraction.

[Inge l-w]

Dear Boton, you're the voice of reason!

Concerning John's orientation, and this thread is all about slash themes, so we're OK, you only have to refer to that array-eyed doctor welcoming Major Sholto to the reception in SoT. Hero-worship has its limits, especially when accompanied by Mary's dig: "Oh, Sherlock, neither one of us was the first, you know!" The first in what?

[J.P.]

Mary wasn't Johns first love.

Sherlock wasn't John's first friend.

I thought it was obvious... :D

[T.o.b.y]

Mary wasn't Johns first love.

Sherlock wasn't John's first friend.

I thought it was obvious... :D

 

Yes, but I think it's deliberately phrased to be ambiguous. Because Mary is a wicked little person with an impish sense of humor.

 

[Arcadia]

I agree that it's phrased to be ambiguous, but it's because Moftiss are wicked little persons with impish senses of humor!

[Inge l-w]

Impish sense of humour does NOT instruct the actor to look daggers in the person's direction, nor to blame it on Mary (Stop smiling) and effectively dumping her in the middle of her wedding reception.

[Boton]

 

Mary wasn't Johns first love.

Sherlock wasn't John's first friend.

I thought it was obvious... :D

 

Yes, but I think it's deliberately phrased to be ambiguous. Because Mary is a wicked little person with an impish sense of humor.

 

 

 

I read it the same way; Mary isn't John's first love, Sherlock isn't his first close friend.  But I agree that the parallelism is there on purpose, because that's what "subtext" is all about.  Mary is recognizing that the Sherlock-John friendship is as intense as the Mary/John love, just in a different way.

 

Unfortunately, (sorry Inge!), I've never seen the "Sherlock shoots daggers" as any proof of him thinking of a sexual relationship, but more that he has really bought this whole "best friend" thing.  John said Sherlock was his best friend and his best man, and that's supposed to be *ever,* not just right now.  The idea that he may also have had a close friendship before makes Sherlock jealous, but not in a sexual way from where I sit.  Reference Sherlock's comment about Sholto being John's "previous commanding officer."

 

(Plus, although I guess it isn't strictly necessary, if Sherlock is comparing himself to  Sholto and that's because he's jealous for romantic/sexual reasons, then that sort of implies that there was a previous John/Sholto to actually be jealous of, and that pairing, for whatever reason, really squicks me out.

 

(FWIW, however, I did read a fanfic once that had Sherlock and Sholto getting together to have really angsty "we both lost John to Mary" sex after the wedding.  For such a....unique....concept, it worked surprisingly well.)

[J.P.]

 

I've never seen the "Sherlock shoots daggers" as any proof of him thinking of a sexual relationship, but more that he has really bought this whole "best friend" thing.

 

Plus he is miffed that Mary could read him so easily. :D

[Arcadia]

Plus Moftiss knew it would produce a laugh. At least, from me. And we all know they write the show for me. :d

[J.P.]

Arwel has been posting elephants obsessively since spring. It was a real Year of the Elephant on Twitter.

 

I don't know what he's plotting, the elephant in the room (beside the mention in HLV) is actually the symbol of the Abominable Subtext.

So, as I saw this pic under the set shots of John's flat, I bursted into loud laughter. TST didn't manage that. :P