Episode 2.3, "The Reichenbach Fall"

[Shadow Dweller]

Wingsuit... that's how Sherlock's coat also functioned that time. Although the wind resistance must be different between the ballooning upper part and the free-flapping lower.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Somebody told you that Sherlock died in this episode?  Ouch!  Were they confused, or just being mean?

 

Guess I'm lucky that I saw it with no preliminary input from other viewers -- just watched what happened in the episode -- and was pretty sure all along that he was faking.  I mean 1) he's the title character of the series, and 2) he's Sherlock Holmes, for pete's sake!  Oh, and 3) I'd just read "The Empty House."  ;)

No evil intention, just misunderstanding.

 

I was excited to find another Sherlock watcher, I just watched up to HOB back then. (It was an eat and sleep depriving marathon when I 'found' the series in March)

While discussing about it, I made an mention that I only had ever read story about giant Sumatran rat and watched first Sherlock movie.

He mistakenly thought I had read the book, and mentioned about a time when Sherlock is dead and stories being told by John.  

I stopped him there and watched TRF that night.

While I believe that he is alive when John was speaking in the cemetery, the moment John found the bloody body hit me quite badly, badly. I was convinced at that scene that he is really dead.

 

All the thought that rushed through my head was.. it can't be, he is the main character, but as mentioned, I watch/read Game of Thrones,

where main characters die like flies

 

there is season 3!, but stories after his death could be told by John like a memoir, so it is possible, and I knew almost nothing about Sherlock Holmes, 

and why do I feel this way?? While other fictional deaths shocked me at best, why this made feel so sad and devastated? I am here to find the answer!

 

Anyway, I feel kind of grateful with the wrong spoiler because it actually makes the impact of that scene much stronger. For me, even TEH explanations doesn't spoil that moment, ever.

 

Wingsuit... that's how Sherlock's coat also functioned that time. Although the wind resistance must be different between the ballooning upper part and the free-flapping lower.

But then, people would make BC-Squirrel meme instead of BC-Otter. :lol:

[Arcadia]

 

I'm just as glad that he went for a minimalist approach.

Me too!

 

And that minimalist approach still makes me shudder everytime I remember my first watch, wrongly spoiled, thinking that Sherlock is indeed dead.

It doesn't help that I am a GoT watcher/reader.

 

Somebody told you that Sherlock died in this episode?  Ouch!  Were they confused, or just being mean?

 

Guess I'm lucky that I saw it with no preliminary input from other viewers -- just watched what happened in the episode -- and was pretty sure all along that he was faking.  I mean 1) he's the title character of the series, and 2) he's Sherlock Holmes, for pete's sake!  Oh, and 3) I'd just read "The Empty House."  ;)

I figured the same thing Carol did, plus I already knew, when I first saw TRF, that there was going to be a 3rd season. But I almost fell over when I told my sister, and she said "How can there be another season, he died!" I tried to explain but she wouldn't believe me. All I can figure is she left the room before the show was over.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

By the time I started watching Sherlock S3 had already aired 6 months prior so when I came to this episode the first time I was like: How can he die, there's another season? And I somehow missed seeing him at the cemetery...still trying to figure that one out.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I already knew, when I first saw TRF, that there was going to be a 3rd season. But I almost fell over when I told my sister, and she said "How can there be another season, he died!" I tried to explain but she wouldn't believe me. All I can figure is she left the room before the show was over.

 

By the time I started watching Sherlock S3 had already aired 6 months prior so when I came to this episode the first time I was like: How can he die, there's another season? And I somehow missed seeing him at the cemetery...still trying to figure that one out.

People often see what they expect to see.  Or fail to see what they don't expect to see.

 

Also, judging by movie audiences, most people tune out as soon as it starts to look like the show is over (thus sometimes missing the crucial final scene that explains everything).

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

... I already knew, when I first saw TRF, that there was going to be a 3rd season. But I almost fell over when I told my sister, and she said "How can there be another season, he died!" I tried to explain but she wouldn't believe me. All I can figure is she left the room before the show was over.

 

By the time I started watching Sherlock S3 had already aired 6 months prior so when I came to this episode the first time I was like: How can he die, there's another season? And I somehow missed seeing him at the cemetery...still trying to figure that one out.

People often see what they expect to see.  Or fail to see what they don't expect to see.

 

Also, judging by movie audiences, most people tune out as soon as it starts to look like the show is over (thus sometimes missing the crucial final scene that explains everything).

 

 

I might have been too caught up in John's emotional upheaval to notice Sherlock.  That would be very like me.

 

I've always been one of those people who stays until the last credit rolls; if I enjoyed the film, it prolongs the mood. Especially if it's a good soundtrack.

 

Wasn't it Young Sherlock Holmes that had a surprise scene after the last credit?

 

Not sure if Young Sherlock has it, but will need to check as my sister found that DVD at garage sale, so now I own it.

 

I am also a to the end movie watcher.  I learned after hearing about the credits for A Bug's Life (never saw in the theatre) so now any movie is to the end.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I tried to explain but she wouldn't believe me. All I can figure is she left the room before the show was over.

I've always been one of those people who stays until the last credit rolls; if I enjoyed the film, it prolongs the mood. Especially if it's a good soundtrack.

 

I've just always had the habit of reading the credits.  My middle brother and I used to drive Daddy nuts -- he'd want to turn off the TV as soon as "the show" was over, but we'd insist on watching everything, especially the cast (we knew the names of everyone who appeared frequently on The Lone Ranger, for example).

I think for me, I would stay and stare at the credit and the blank screen until Sherlock comes back to life because I'd be in shock.       

However, I only watch credit if I was shocked, trying to digest it. Or when I'm overly impressed on certain scenes like Arcadia mentioned, it prolongs the mood. There are few scenes like that from TV series.

For movie, I actually only remember few, after Matrix Reloaded, because there is secret scene after the credit, and Wall-e, because there is a cute animation. The other times I watch credit are because I want to wait for the crowd to subside. But movies watched at home, don't remember any. I think I'm too impatient.   

 

 I might have been too caught up in John's emotional upheaval to notice Sherlock.  That would be very like me.

Did you know he was faking it even though you missed the scene?

 

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I have moved (the bulk of) the discussion about watching final credits to its own thread:  "End Credits -- Watch 'em or not?"

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I have moved (the bulk of) the discussion about watching final credits to its own thread: "End Credits -- Watch 'em or not?"

But that's no fun ;)

 

My son wants to re-watch this episode which we might do tomorrow.

[T.o.b.y]

*Sigh*... The Reichenbach Fall seems so confusing to me now that the long-awaited "solution" is finally there. The Empty Hearse ended up making it all even more unclear to me. For example: Did Sherlock really mess up in the court-room? Or was behaving like a socially clueless arrogant idiot just part of the plan to get Moriarty to slip up because he thought he was winning? Was it just a calculated performance?

 

And what about Kitty Riley? Did Sherlock know about her connection with Moriarty and did he antagonize her on purpose, too?

 

Also, when Sherlock says to John: "Can't you see what's going on?", is he referring to Moriarty's game or his own and Mycroft's? Or both?

 

Aaaaargh, I am really tired and for some odd reason, I am suddenly breaking my poor exhausted head over these things.

[Arcadia]

*Sigh*... The Reichenbach Fall seems so confusing to me now that the long-awaited "solution" is finally there. The Empty Hearse ended up making it all even more unclear to me. For example: Did Sherlock really mess up in the court-room? Or was behaving like a socially clueless arrogant idiot just part of the plan to get Moriarty to slip up because he thought he was winning? Was it just a calculated performance?

 

And what about Kitty Riley? Did Sherlock know about her connection with Moriarty and did he antagonize her on purpose, too?

 

Also, when Sherlock says to John: "Can't you see what's going on?", is he referring to Moriarty's game or his own and Mycroft's? Or both?

 

Aaaaargh, I am really tired and for some odd reason, I am suddenly breaking my poor exhausted head over these things.

 

Here, let me help make you tireder. :p This is my take....

 

I've decided (based on nothing) that the Plan was already in place, but Sherlock was hoping he wouldn't have to go through with it and Moriarty would actually go to jail. He didn't expect it, but he wished for it. So, yes, authentic arse at the trial.

 

Kitty ... not her connection to Moriarty, but deliberately antagonizing her, yes ... as he would have any other press member that approached him, imo.

 

"Can't you see..." I've always thought maybe that was the beginning of trying to make John doubt him. The last thing he asked John to do for him was to tell everyone he was a fake. (Which, I note, John didn't do....) So here, he's just priming the pump. But second choice: he's referring to Moriarty's plan. I don't think he ever wanted John to have even a hint that he and Mycroft had a plan.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm going to put my answers here (in red) before I read Arcadia's, then compare afterward.

 

Did Sherlock really mess up in the court-room? Or was behaving like a socially clueless arrogant idiot just part of the plan to get Moriarty to slip up because he thought he was winning? Was it just a calculated performance?  I suspect the latter, now that you mention it.  Though as Arcadia says, it probably wouldn't have made any difference!

 

And what about Kitty Riley? Did Sherlock know about her connection with Moriarty and did he antagonize her on purpose, too?  Hard to tell.  Her obvious (to him) fakery was bound to tick him off in any case, with the results that we saw.

 

Also, when Sherlock says to John: "Can't you see what's going on?", is he referring to Moriarty's game or his own and Mycroft's? Or both?  Oh, Moriarty's game, I'm sure.  Remember, John is deliberately being fed the "public" story, keeping him carefully in the dark regarding what's really going on.

 

Aaaaargh, I am really tired and for some odd reason, I am suddenly breaking my poor exhausted head over these things.  Go take your poor old head to bed.  Things are bound to be more clear in the morning.

 

[Moi2099]

This episode is once and for all my favourite ! I think Moriarty is brilliant in this one ! He's so much crazy and in the bad side (not in the side on the angels, of couuuuurse). And the suspense was terrible the first time I saw it, I just thought : " How the hell did he do that ?!" 

I think that the story is good, it's full of incident ! And everytime I see it, I found new elements ! 

[T.o.b.y]

The Reichenbach Fall was certainly so far the most important episode. The first two seasons built up to it and the third season was mainly about the aftermath. It is the episode I have watched the most often, the one I know literally by heart and that I wonder about the most. It wasn't until The Reichenbach Fall that I sought out other fans on the internet because the many riddles of that episode just wouldn't leave me alone.

 

And they still don't. I still wonder and speculate and break my brain over what the heck really happened there.

 

I still can't decide whether I think it's really a good episode, let alone one of the best. It's great, it's riveting, it's superbly acted and so on, but it's so... incomplete? Unfinished? Unclear?

 

While I really do hope Moriarty is truly dead, his face showing up at the end of His Last Vow has given me hope that The Fall will be further dealt with.

[kornmuhme]

The Reichenbach Fall was certainly so far the most important episode. The first two seasons built up to it and the third season was mainly about the aftermath. It is the episode I have watched the most often, the one I know literally by heart and that I wonder about the most. It wasn't until The Reichenbach Fall that I sought out other fans on the internet because the many riddles of that episode just wouldn't leave me alone.

 

And they still don't. I still wonder and speculate and break my brain over what the heck really happened there.

 

I still can't decide whether I think it's really a good episode, let alone one of the best. It's great, it's riveting, it's superbly acted and so on, but it's so... incomplete? Unfinished? Unclear?

 

While I really do hope Moriarty is truly dead, his face showing up at the end of His Last Vow has given me hope that The Fall will be further dealt with.

 

I agree with you in TRF being the most important episode of the whole show so far! First, it is one of the most shocking and spectecular one, second, it rules/reigns the complete S3!

 

But to be honest? I'm fine with it, even with all the riddles that might be in my head. I think wo won't get any full and satisfying explanation how Sherlock and Mycroft and Molly and who else was involved really did it - and that's ok for me, because that makes it so fascinating!!!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree with you in TRF being the most important episode of the whole show so far! First, it is one of the most shocking and spectecular one, second, it rules/reigns the complete S3!

 

But to be honest? I'm fine with it, even with all the riddles that might be in my head. I think wo won't get any full and satisfying explanation how Sherlock and Mycroft and Molly and who else was involved really did it - and that's ok for me, because that makes it so fascinating!!!

 

And besides, it allows each of us to believe that our theories were correct all along.  (As I recall, Moftiss even said that was one reason they didn't completely nail down any of the explanations -- because no matter what "official" explanation they gave, they'd make some of the fans very angry!)

 

Actually, in some cases I think they explained too much -- such as why John's sniper relented.  In my opinion, it would have been far better to just hint at something, or let the question stand, rather than open that whole new can of worms.

[Arcadia]

Same here. All I really needed to know was there was an air bag, I would've filled in the rest for myself. Then argued with the rest of you as to why my version was the correct one. :D

 

I remember at first viewing thinking, well, obviously the bicyclist was planned, and the people all around Sherlock were obviously trying to keep John from touching/lingering near the "body", so the only real issue for me was how he survived the impact. Now my big question is "why?" and the answers for that sort of blow the episode apart...... :(

[Carol the Dabbler]

Right, we knew he had to land on something resilient, and the details didn't really matter.  Except that mine were correct!  :P
 
I'm like Anderson -- a bit disappointed.  (Where's the damned Anderson smiley when you need it?!)

[Arcadia]

That's your weakness, you always want everything to be clever. :p

[Arcadia]

Oh wow, I never really noticed this before. In looking for the correct wording for the quote just above, I saw this:

 

When John hurries back to 221B, thinking Mrs. H is dying, he bursts in and she says this: "Oh God, John, you made me jump!"

 

Agghghg, the feels!! Because that's basically what I originally thought was going on in this episode -- Sherlock jumped to save John (and to some extent the others.) And I tend to agree with you, Carol ... I think they originally had a less detailed explanation in mind (or none at all), but when the thing blew up on the internet, they thought they'd better concoct something more detailed ... and overshot the mark.

[Carol the Dabbler]

That could well be what happened.  I do get the impression that (regardless of what they claimed) they did NOT have any detailed "official" explanation worked out when they filmed Series 2.  If they had, they could have tweaked "Reichenbach" a bit, then either explained things in Series 3 or not.

 

[Arcadia]

The only thing I've ever heard them say was they knew, going into S2, how it would end ... but not anything about "how he did it." Although Moffat indicated all along, I think, that something got between Sherlock and the pavement. Somewhere I got the impression the hiring of the expert took place before S3, not S2.

 

Whatever the sequence, I can buy Big Blue. My problem is the extra body, and most particularly "Mycroft's people" dissuading the shooters. That last --- argh, that just renders the whole thing a big fat charade, staged solely to fool John. Gahhhh!

[Carol the Dabbler]

My problem is the extra body, and most particularly "Mycroft's people" dissuading the shooters. That last --- argh, that just renders the whole thing a big fat charade, staged solely to fool John. Gahhhh!

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly on both points!

[Van Buren Supernova]

^ XD

 

Anyway I am buried shoulder deep in paper, trying to sort out some evaluation and project review, deadline in couple of hours, somehow this thought never leave my mind.

 

Maybe it had been discussed before (what hasn't?) when exactly does John considers Sherlock as his best friend?

 

TSoT, obviously.

(Don't! Don't waste time searching for gif..! Gahhhh!)

 

The first time, I think, he mentions it at beginning of TRF.

Is Sherlock's death/the loss of him makes John realises that?

You know, that wisdom, we never know what we have until we lost it.., or could it be earlier?

 

Because in HOB, an episode prior, they just admit that they are friend. Before that, not really, not that I remember.

[Arcadia]

That is the way I remember it as well, VBS.