Episode 2.3, "The Reichenbach Fall"

[Carol the Dabbler]

Me too.  Though Sherlock and John may well have been best friends long before either of them put it into words.

 

[Arcadia]

Or even realized it.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Hmm..come to think of it, I also don't call my best friend best friend.

 

I think John knows, but Sherlock doesn't/never think that way until John told him?

[J.P.]

Good point. Dang, did I ever?...

Surely I was told really lovely things by my best friend, inclusive the most beautiful compliment. Not saying/writing directly I'm her best friend (after 25 years of separation I wouldn't mind not being it anymore), but someone special.

We just assume the other person knows it. As John did.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I think I could count on the other person knowing it.

 

Seems like it's us here who mostly have problem realizing it and more prone to drink eyeball tea. XD

[Carol the Dabbler]

We just assume the other person knows it. As John did.

 

Yup, he apparently did, and seemed to assume that Sherlock was also aware that they were best friends.  But of course he was oblivious.  (Not really his area.)

[Van Buren Supernova]

Noticed two little things, not my fault if these had been discussed to death before I joined. Blame Moffiss.

 

- Maybe it's different country, different style.

The statue of justice is not blindfolded..?

 

- I know diamond had been discussed somewhere, the one that I notice is the glass that Moriarty breaks. Assuming it's supposed to be a bulletproof glass, it's way too thin (maybe should be at least three times the thickness, minimum). It should also hold together much more because it has to be laminated. The tempered part when it shattered into small pieces instead of bigger chunks is correct though.

[J.P.]

Great observation about Justice. I haven't had a closer look, I just assumed she is blindfolded as any other one... How telling.
 
I thought the diamond was brilliant - but not for very long. :D You are probably right about the glass, then the bottom of the fire extinguisher must have been perfectly even, so the whole impact would could concentrate on the tiny diamond. But even then the diamond would perforate the extinguisher's metal shell, possibly with some funny side effects.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Noticed two little things, not my fault if these had been discussed to death before I joined. Blame Moffiss.

 

- Maybe it's different country, different style.

The statue of justice is not blindfolded..?

 

You're observant -- I never noticed that! Lady Justice is normally blindfolded here in the US, but I've seen what I take to be a model of the Old Bailey statue in Philadelphia, in the building where the Declaration of Independence was signed.  (Didn't check that one for a blindfold either, though.)

 

- I know diamond had been discussed somewhere, the one that I notice is the glass that Moriarty breaks. Assuming it's supposed to be a bulletproof glass, it's way too thin (maybe should be at least three times the thickness, minimum). It should also hold together much more because it has to be laminated. The tempered part when it shattered into small pieces instead of bigger chunks is correct though.

A jeweler friend of mine also said that if you hit a diamond hard enough to shatter actual bulletproof glass, it would shatter the diamond.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Maybe Old Bailey is a very old court? Blindfold was a later tradition I suppose.

 

Another thing, haven't been discussed around here as far as I know, about Kitty Riley.

 

While I dislike the character a lot and hate the scene, anyone who breaches privacy like that, I might punch her, because I have no ability to shut her up with brilliant deductions like Sherlock, however, even so, I think she is not a bad person, she is just someone too ambitious, so much that she is blinded by the very fact that she witness Sherlock's observation and deduction power about herself. First hand.

 

He didn't know her, he wasn't expecting her, she was the one who ambushed him in the toilet. It's impossible to fake a brilliant deduction. Unplanned.

[Inge l-w]

Concerning Justitia on top of the Old Bailey, you haven't watched enough Rumpole of the Bailey, dear fellow members! :D

[Carol the Dabbler]

I watched 'em all, Inge -- but I did not observe!

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

I don't know what Rumpole is.

I believe it's a show.

What I know is I don't have it and I won't be able to get it.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Rumpole of the Bailey was a British television series (and a series of novels based on it) about Horace Rumpole, a London lawyer who marches to the beat of his own drum, although he isn't particularly exceptional (he even refers to himself as a "hack").  He does, however, have a delightful sense of humor and quite a way with words.  On television, he was played by the late, inimitable Leo McKern, but I believe he's recently been brought back to life on BBC Radio 4 as played by Benedict Cumberbatch.

 

You may be able to find some of the television episodes on YouTube, and the radio series may be available from the BBC website.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Thanks for the info. Not sure if I have time to catch it among the long list.

So BC is only in the radio show, I can't see his face, can I?

Truth is, his voice would be enough.

[Van Buren Supernova]

 

Watching TRF, would you guys agree, I think, John is very strong mentally. While the other geniuses seem like they don't care (Sherlock, Mycroft, Irene) imho, they have delicate feelings and might not be able to handle lost very well, in their own way. But John is very normal, with feelings and emotion and he relates to others. The way he handles losing Sherlock is very admirable to me. He is calm despite the devastation. Few tears, few hidden tears is all he gives. Yes, it might not be healthy as he keeps it down inside. But to me, it's strong. He never falls apart.

 

Which leads me to believe more in what I mentioned in other threads, that we will see Sherlock losing someone and deals with it. Someone that matters.

[Arcadia]

I'd agree with that, yes. John is a more balanced personality than any of those others, imo.

[Inge l-w]

Well, they can't lose Dr Watson and leave Mary-the-gun-for-hire behind, nor Mrs Hudson, nor can they lose Mycroft, not in this version! Lestrade and Molly distinct possibilities in this version.

[T.o.b.y]

Watching TRF, would you guys agree, I think, John is very strong mentally. While the other geniuses seem like they don't care (Sherlock, Mycroft, Irene) imho, they have delicate feelings and might not be able to handle lost very well, in their own way. But John is very normal, with feelings and emotion and he relates to others. The way he handles losing Sherlock is very admirable to me. He is calm despite the devastation. Few tears, few hidden tears is all he gives. Yes, it might not be healthy as he keeps it down inside. But to me, it's strong. He never falls apart.

 

I get what you mean, but personally, I think John's behavior is deceptive. Sure, he's outwardly calm, but I get the impression that there's a lot going on below the surface and that it festers and gnaws at him all the more precisely because his feelings are very controlled (one might even say, repressed). Also, it's normal to be calm and rational right after the shock of some horrible occurrence. The real problems often come later.

 

I think it's strongly implied both in Many Happy Returns and in The Empty Hearse that John had a very rough time during the two years that he thought Sherlock was dead.

 

Because he gives off this strong, sane vibe though, Sherlock might have underestimated the effect his plan would have on John, even after he had seen him at his grave. It's entirely possible.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think it's strongly implied both in Many Happy Returns and in The Empty Hearse that John had a very rough time during the two years that he thought Sherlock was dead.

 

Because he gives off this strong, sane vibe though, Sherlock might have underestimated the effect his plan would have on John, even after he had seen him at his grave. It's entirely possible.

When I was a kid, my father (who was a big, strong man) would encourage me to punch him as hard as I could in the upper arm, then he'd just laugh as though he hadn't felt a thing.  Some years later, I took a playful swing at my (big, strong) boyfriend, and he said, "Ow, that hurts!"  I was quite taken aback, but once I stopped to think about it, skin is skin and muscle is muscle, no matter how much or how little one has.  (And of course Daddy was a show-off.)

 

So, yes, even the strong ones get hurt, they just don't show it as much.

 

[T.o.b.y]

I think John's reaction when Sherlock comes back is an indicator that he was in fact quite badly hurt. If he hadn't, then he'd have reacted more like Lestrade. Which is what Sherlock was expecting him to do, I bet.

[Arcadia]

I think I actually believe both things at once; John was badly hurt, but he's mentally/emotionally very strong. He had a hard time, but he took a blow that would have broken some people to the point where they couldn't go on; and John was clearly "going on" -- being a doctor, falling in love. Whereas if their situations had been reversed, I can easily believe Sherlock would have plunged into bleak despair.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I think I actually believe both things at once; John was badly hurt, but he's mentally/emotionally very strong. He had a hard time, but he took a blow that would have broken some people to the point where they couldn't go on; and John was clearly "going on" -- being a doctor, falling in love. Whereas if their situations had been reversed, I can easily believe Sherlock would have plunged into bleak despair.

That is better way to say what I mean.

He is badly hurt, of course, but he handles it very well, which indicates mentally strong for me, exceptionally.

And yes to Sherlock falls apart in position of John.

I am scared of Season 4.

[Arcadia]

Oh, I don't know, I'd kind of like to see Sherlock fall apart -- just to see how he puts himself back together. With John's help, I hope. Sounds interesting! :p

[T.o.b.y]

I can't really picture Sherlock falling apart. If something traumatic happened to him or if he suffered some loss, I think the effects would be rather subtle. When he thought Irene was dead, he just played the violin a lot and forgot to eat and nobody knew whether he was sad or just being himself. When he was tortured in Serbia, he seemed to get over that surprisingly well. When he had a near-death experience in His Last Vow, he came back to life seemingly unaltered but killed a man in cold blood only a few months later.

 

We don't know how he reacted as a child when Redbeard died, but if Mycroft was around, then I bet he didn't really get to process his loss like a child usually would. Big brother probably gave him a condescending sneer and that was it.

 

One thing's for sure, Sherlock may be neurotic and all over the place, but he's very resilient too.

 

What I can imagine is that if he lost the people who are dear to him, that he'd revert to his series 1 self. He'd probably become really reckless and risk his life over stupid thrills or proofs of his cleverness. I think he'd just loose his humanity, basically. But I don't think he'd have a nervous breakdown, at least not one we'd recognize as such.