Episode 2.3, "The Reichenbach Fall"

[SherlockedCAMPer]

It's possible to have the battle find you even though you're not near the area. That happened in the show MASH so I figure all's fair in war when comes to where the battle happens.

[sfmpco]

Well, there's a difference between being in the field and on the front line.  I don't think John was necessarily on the front line.  Even so, he would have seen action.

[Arcadia]

 

Right. John's apparently had extensive firearm training -- so who knows what else he may have learned in the army?

Wait a minute... does any army in the world send it's doctors in the field? It would be... erm... not so good. The "medics" in the battle zone are paramedics? So John actually shouldn't see too much action...  I think I have to research on this. (or was it discussed elsewhere?)

 

I had a similar question awhile back, but I'm afraid I can't remember where we discussed it (Carol seems to know how to find old conversations, but I never can .... :( )  I also wondered, how much military training does a doctor receive? I can't think of any reason why John would become a "crack shot" just because he's a doctor in the army, for example. Of course, he did have bad days ... maybe he got through them by going out to target practice?

 

Anyway, I don't recall that there were any definite answers. (And how many times have we said that about this show!!!! ) So research away!

[sfmpco]

Okay, I can only speak from personal experience on this.  Although my father wasn't an army doctor - he was an athletic instructor at the US Air Force Academy (20 years - retired Lt. Col.) - he went through basic training just like anyone else.  I never knew him as the "soldier" but he became quite incensed with me one day when I said he wasn't a soldier, because in HIS eyes, he was foremost a soldier and ready to give his life for his country.  That he taught and coached athletics between wars was another matter.

 

John would have had the same military training as any other soldier.   He is retired - which means he spent many years in service but not necessarily all in a combat zone.  He was likely stationed at a military base in Britain and assigned to a military hospital there.  

[sfmpco]

It is also very possible that the military paid for his medical training in exchange for a longer enrollment period in the military.  

[SherlockedCAMPer]

 

Anyway, I don't recall that there were any definite answers. (And how many times have we said that about this show!!!! ) So research away!

 

 

 

I raise my smoothie glass to your last statement.

 

Now to continue the speculations, theories, & thoughtful discussions on how Sherlock survived this & everything else related to the fall. 

[Arcadia]

Basic training, yeah ... but basic training does not a crack shot make. Of course, John IS a rather remarkable person, maybe he just comes by it naturally. He probably doesn't even need to practice!  :P

[sfmpco]

John may have always had a gun.  Maybe he went duck hunting as a kid, shot the cans off the fence post, things like that.  it doesn't take a soldier to make a crack shot.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Right. John's apparently had extensive firearm training -- so who knows what else he may have learned in the army?

This particular thread seems rather temperamental today! It won't allow me to post.

 

I assume you typed that as a test -- so your problems have presumably cleared up?  If not, just let us know over on one of the "problem" threads.

 

Yup.

 

I like your short response that ended up at the top of the page.  Had to review what was before it to get it's context.

 

Sorry!  I usually notice when that happens, swear briefly, then edit in a quote.

 

Yup.

 

I hope you mentally popped that P.

 

Clearly.

 

Right. John's apparently had extensive firearm training -- so who knows what else he may have learned in the army?

Wait a minute... does any army in the world send it's doctors in the field? It would be... erm... not so good. The "medics" in the battle zone are paramedics? So John actually shouldn't see too much action...  I think I have to research on this. (or was it discussed elsewhere?)

 

It's now in the process of being discussed right here, of course, but wellingtongoose has written a number of metas that touch on that very question.

 

I had a similar question awhile back, but I'm afraid I can't remember where we discussed it (Carol seems to know how to find old conversations, but I never can .... :( )

I generally use the forum's advanced-search function (the little "cog" to the right of the basic search box at the top of every forum page). It's just like using Bing, in that the key is to think what words were probably used in the conversation you're looking for (or even better, a phrase). However, there are times when the forum search couldn't find "Sherlock" -- and at those times, I use Google's site-search option. Again, the key is to think what words would have been used.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I have just discovered that the forum has an upper limit on how many quotes one may include in a post!  So here's the rest of it:

 

Basic training, yeah ... but basic training does not a crack shot make. Of course, John IS a rather remarkable person, maybe he just comes by it naturally. He probably doesn't even need to practice!  :P

I imagine John would appreciate that comment about as much as Martin Freeman probably appreciates the chuckleheads who say similar things about his acting.  ;)
 

John may have always had a gun.  Maybe he went duck hunting as a kid, shot the cans off the fence post, things like that.  it doesn't take a soldier to make a crack shot.

That's quite possible, but that gun would presumably have been a rifle or shotgun, which are legal for private ownership in the UK. Shooting a pistol accurately is a whole 'nother kettle of fish, and he would presumably have mastered that in the army. My favorite theory as to how he acquired the pistol we see him using is that he (very unofficially) took it off a dead combatant (and then of course dutifully turned in his own service pistol when he was discharged).

 

[Arcadia]

 

I like your short response that ended up at the top of the page.  Had to review what was before it to get it's context.

 

Sorry!  I usually notice when that happens, swear briefly, then edit in a quote.

 

Whew, glad I'm not the only one who does that....

 

 

I had a similar question awhile back, but I'm afraid I can't remember where we discussed it (Carol seems to know how to find old conversations, but I never can .... :( )

.......... the key is to think what words were probably used in the conversation you're looking for (or even better, a phrase).

 

And that, in a nutshell, is my problem!!! I can barely remember my name from one day to the next, let alone a phrase in a post on a forum I made x weeks ago! What I really need is an administrative assistant. Or maybe just a new brain.

 

 

Basic training, yeah ... but basic training does not a crack shot make. Of course, John IS a rather remarkable person, maybe he just comes by it naturally. He probably doesn't even need to practice!  :P

I imagine John would appreciate that comment about as much as Martin Freeman probably appreciates the chuckleheads who say similar things about his acting.  ;)

 

Hey, who you callin' a chucklehead? :D

[sfmpco]

Just found this on Ebay and thought it was interesting...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOSEF-THOMA-1828-99-OIL-PAINTING-REICHENBACH-FALLS-SHERLOCK-HOLMES-SWITZERLAND-/201264960589?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2edc53944d

[J.P.]

Did anybody actually thought of "The Great Escape" looking at Sherlock bouncing the squash ball in Bart's lab?

[Boton]

Rewatched TRF last night.  Suddenly realized that John walking around the flat in his dressing gown with his hair wet and messy is "a tiny bit sexy."

 

That is all.

[JackStantler]

Hi all!

 

Could anyone tell me if the assassin that had his scope on John couddnt see that Holmes faked his dead ?

In the episode he clearly had a visual on sherlocks body so whats up with this ? What am i missing ?

[sfmpco]

Hi all!

 

Could anyone tell me if the assassin that had his scope on John couddnt see that Holmes faked his dead ?

In the episode he clearly had a visual on sherlocks body so whats up with this ? What am i missing ?

 

Oh yes, this has been discussed on this thread, most recently by me.  There was only one sniper on the scene as the other two were near Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson.  Yet Moriarty clearly said, "Unless my people (plural) see you fall..." so who were the other people, and if they were watching, wouldn't they have seen the fakery?

 

Well first off, Moriarty led Sherlock to a section of the roof that over-looked the main street.  That's where he was supposed to jump.  That's likely where Moriarty's other people were watching.  But Sherlock jumped at a different place.  Maybe they saw him jump, but they apparently didn't see him land, and neither did John's sniper.

 

That's the only convoluted way I know how to explain it.

[JackStantler]

Well the thing is the sniper that had John in his vision..

We see this sniper have John in his vision when John is at the place where Sherlock fell...

 

Then we see him collapse his rifle etc.

 

So clearly he had the oppertunity to see the full fall that sherlock made

[T.o.b.y]

Well the thing is the sniper that had John in his vision..

We see this sniper have John in his vision when John is at the place where Sherlock fell...

 

Then we see him collapse his rifle etc.

 

So clearly he had the oppertunity to see the full fall that sherlock made

 

I think that is why it was necessary to put in that bit about Mycroft's people intervening and "persuading him to reconsider", as Sherlock said in his explanation to Anderson.

 

[J.P.]

or it was indeed the laundry truck that covered the sniper's view of the pavement at the deciding moment.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Could anyone tell me if the assassin that had his scope on John couddnt see that Holmes faked his dead ?

In the episode he clearly had a visual on sherlocks body so whats up with this ? What am i missing ?

 

Oh yes, this has been discussed on this thread, most recently by me.  There was only one sniper on the scene as the other two were near Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson.  Yet Moriarty clearly said, "Unless my people (plural) see you fall..." so who were the other people, and if they were watching, wouldn't they have seen the fakery?

 

Well first off, Moriarty led Sherlock to a section of the roof that over-looked the main street.  That's where he was supposed to jump.  That's likely where Moriarty's other people were watching.  But Sherlock jumped at a different place.  Maybe they saw him jump, but they apparently didn't see him land, and neither did John's sniper.

 

That's the only convoluted way I know how to explain it.

 

Even though the stunt was performed from a different roof, the "real" fall took place exactly at the spot that Moriarty chose.  When he and Sherlock look down over the edge, we see the wooden benches and the red phone booth and the bus stop, plus that rectangle in the pavement.  John sees Sherlock falling toward the same area (as I believe can be seen from John's view as he rounds the corner of the ambulance station).  And exactly the same area as in the rooftop view is seen in the overhead shot of Sherlock's "body" being carted off.

 

Well the thing is the sniper that had John in his vision..

We see this sniper have John in his vision when John is at the place where Sherlock fell...

 

Then we see him collapse his rifle etc.

 

So clearly he had the oppertunity to see the full fall that sherlock made

 

Yup.

 

I think that is why it was necessary to put in that bit about Mycroft's people intervening and "persuading him to reconsider", as Sherlock said in his explanation to Anderson.

... which kinda makes the entire fall unnecessary, doesn't it? (Unless some of Moriarty's other people could see Sherlock fall from the roof, but could not see him land.)

 

or it was indeed the laundry truck that covered the sniper's view of the pavement at the deciding moment.

The truck might have obscured the sniper's view of the actual pavement, but I can't see how it would be tall enough to block his view of Big Blue.  It's only about the same height as BB, and the sniper was stationed well above the roofline of the ambulance station, probably about 3rd floor level, so he would have been able to see behind the truck to some extent.

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Wonder also if the bought out sniper still had to see the fall to tell the other snipers as well.

[Carol the Dabbler]

They'd have been far better off showing -- instead of that sniper -- just a lookout who could see the edge of the roof but not the ground.

 

On the other hand, from an in-universe point of view, Mycroft & Sherlock had no control over Moriarty's people.  In fact, I don't see how they could possibly have known for certain even how many there were, let alone where.

 

[J.P.]

I don't believe in Big Blue (another idea for a T-Shirt ?)

 

It was Sherlock who invited Jim. I suppose in the in-universe there was only one stairway to the roof, so Jim had to adapt his scenario to Sherlock's.

[T.o.b.y]

 

I think that is why it was necessary to put in that bit about Mycroft's people intervening and "persuading him to reconsider", as Sherlock said in his explanation to Anderson.

... which kinda makes the entire fall unnecessary, doesn't it? (Unless some of Moriarty's other people could see Sherlock fall from the roof, but could not see him land.)

 

Of course it does! That is what bothers me the most about the explanation, it makes the whole thing look ridiculously and unnecessarily elaborate. If it was that easy for Mycroft to dissuade the snipers from doing their job, then Sherlock would have never had to jump. He could have just gone up on the roof, got the full confession out of Moriarty (which he did, and I am still a little miffed that wasn't used in any way in the story - I used to think it was half of the point of that rooftop madness) and then have him arrested by Mycroft's minions.

 

The only problem with that plan would have been that it would have left Moriarty's network intact, and I am afraid Moriarty could run it just as well from inside a prison as from anywhere else. Heck, he'd probably use his time there to recruit new members. If he was even incarcerated at all and didn't wheedle and threaten his way out of the trial again.

 

They could have dealt with the immediate problem on that one day in a more efficient manner, but that would have left the Holmes boys a whole pile of future problems. In order to really do something about the situation, Sherlock had to disappear for a while, so it was actually very convenient that Moriarty wanted him to commit suicide - if that hadn't been the plan, Sherlock and Mycroft would have had to come up with a scenario of their own in which he could "die".

 

It all makes sense once you think about it... Well, it can all make sense if you try to think about it in a certain way...

 

[J.P.]

It does make sense to me. For now.