Episode 2.3, "The Reichenbach Fall"

[Arcadia]

I still find it unnecessarily elaborate! But that IS Sherlock's weakness, according to Jim .....

[Carol the Dabbler]

If it was that easy for Mycroft to dissuade the snipers from doing their job, then Sherlock would have never had to jump. He could have just gone up on the roof, got the full confession out of Moriarty (which he did, and I am still a little miffed that wasn't used in any way in the story - I used to think it was half of the point of that rooftop madness) and then have him arrested by Mycroft's minions.

 

The only problem with that plan would have been that it would have left Moriarty's network intact, and I am afraid Moriarty could run it just as well from inside a prison as from anywhere else....

Right, the confession! During the hiatus between "Reichenbach" and "Empty Hearse," I had myself firmly convinced that Sherlock already knew that the Key Code was a hoax. (Even if he didn't figure it out himself, surely Mycroft's "people" would have told him that such a thing is impossible.) So obviously his playing along with the idea was a ploy to elicit Moriarty's statement, his confession as you say.

 

Well, maybe the recording that Sherlock presumably made on his cellphone was part of the evidence that enabled the investigation to conclusively prove that Moriarty really had been the mastermind behind the crimes. But it woulda been really nice if they had worked in a couple of sentences about that, wouldn't it?

 

As for Moriarty, if he wants to off himself after the confession -- I'm all in favor of letting him!

[sfmpco]

Yes, as a criminal mastermind, he was fun for 6 episodes, but they can't keep him going forever.  Onwards and upwards to new villains!

[T.o.b.y]

I am still curious what Sherlock and Mycroft has planned in case Moriarty didn't kill himself, which Sherlock later claims they did not expect to happen. "Lazarus" only works if Moriarty isn't standing on the roof watching the fall. What were they going to do with him?

[Carol the Dabbler]

If Moftiss had revealed that, then where would be the challenge for fanfic writers?  ;)

[Boton]

I would love to know what the 13 potential scenarios were.  I still think they were probably families of scenarios -- such that multiple things fit under the "Lazarus" umbrella.  But I can't imagine what they all were.

[J.P.]

I am still curious what Sherlock and Mycroft has planned in case Moriarty didn't kill himself, which Sherlock later claims they did not expect to happen. "Lazarus" only works if Moriarty isn't standing on the roof watching the fall. What were they going to do with him?

Maybe the sniper we've seen was about to shoot Jim - not John.

[Carol the Dabbler]

If so, he sat there with his gun aimed at John for an awfully long time after Moriarty went down.

 

[J.P.]

Oh, he was just monitoring the situation. Out of curiosity.  :P  He saw Jim dying so there was nothing else for him to look at on the roof.

[T.o.b.y]

I simply cannot think of a plan that would work with Moriarty standing there looking on. Even if he had given Sherlock his "moment of privacy" and Sherlock jumped then, Moriarty would have been back at the edge looking down way in time to see the airbag.

 

Was Sherlock supposed to knock Moriarty out first? In which case, what did they think the snipers would do? Oh, wait, it didn't matter what the snipers did because Mycroft had his people take care of them anyway. The snipers were never a problem, the problem was making everybody believe Sherlock was dead. But wouldn't Moriarty have been pretty suspicious if he received a blow to the head and woke up to find Sherlock had allegedly killed himself?

[SherlockedCAMPer]

I simply cannot think of a plan that would work with Moriarty standing there looking on. Even if he had given Sherlock his "moment of privacy" and Sherlock jumped then, Moriarty would have been back at the edge looking down way in time to see the airbag.

 

Was Sherlock supposed to knock Moriarty out first? In which case, what did they think the snipers would do? Oh, wait, it didn't matter what the snipers did because Mycroft had his people take care of them anyway. The snipers were never a problem, the problem was making everybody believe Sherlock was dead. But wouldn't Moriarty have been pretty suspicious if he received a blow to the head and woke up to find Sherlock had allegedly killed himself?

 

I'd agree with Moriarty's suspicion if he had been knocked out.  Molly might have ended up in danger at that point because he would have checked the morgue records.

[Arcadia]

Funnily enough, I just read, or started to read, one idea .... that Mycroft's men were stationed nearby, and they were supposed to arrest Moriarty when Sherlock gave the word, but react too late to "stop" Sherlock from jumping. In that case, Jim would see the jump, but not the landing. I don't find the idea entirely convincing, but since Jim wasn't around to see the jump anyway, he was apparently willing to take Sherlock's death on faith ... so I suppose it's possible.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Oh, he was just monitoring the situation. Out of curiosity.  :P  He saw Jim dying so there was nothing else for him to look at on the roof.

 

True.  A telescopic gunsight gives one a really good view of things.  I could almost buy into that.  :D

 

I simply cannot think of a plan that would work with Moriarty standing there looking on. Even if he had given Sherlock his "moment of privacy" and Sherlock jumped then, Moriarty would have been back at the edge looking down way in time to see the airbag....

 

The Live-Moriarty plan may not have involved Big Blue at all.  Who knows what it would have entailed, though -- I doubt that even Moftiss have any idea.

 

Funnily enough, I just read, or started to read, one idea .... that Mycroft's men were stationed nearby, and they were supposed to arrest Moriarty when Sherlock gave the word, but react too late to "stop" Sherlock from jumping. In that case, Jim would see the jump, but not the landing. I don't find the idea entirely convincing, but since Jim wasn't around to see the jump anyway, he was apparently willing to take Sherlock's death on faith ... so I suppose it's possible.

 

Not bad.  I suppose it could have worked -- except for that pesky sniper.

[Arcadia]

Oh, but Mycroft's men had that covered too, so .... ta da!

 

It would appear that the answer to every scenario is that either Sherlock or Mycroft thought of it and had it covered...........

[Carol the Dabbler]

Sherlock's breezy explanation to Anderson strikes me as false bravado, though.  There had to be a roughly infinite number of what-if's that they hadn't even thought of, let alone covered.

 

[Arcadia]

Not that they'll ever admit to!

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Not that they'll ever admit to!

 

Agreed

 

Sherlock/Mycroft or admitting anything ever (other than to confound us more) = or a "yeah right"/"when (insert non-winged object here) sprouts wings and flies"

[T.o.b.y]

 

I simply cannot think of a plan that would work with Moriarty standing there looking on. Even if he had given Sherlock his "moment of privacy" and Sherlock jumped then, Moriarty would have been back at the edge looking down way in time to see the airbag....

 

The Live-Moriarty plan may not have involved Big Blue at all.  Who knows what it would have entailed, though -- I doubt that even Moftiss have any idea.

 

I doubt that as well, and I think it's a pity. The whole scenario poses a fascinating problem and I would really like a solution. I'd be fine with working one out for myself, but I can't come up with anything really satisfactory - hey, I'm not the genius around here.

 

What also baffles me is that Sherlock admits they did not foresee Moriarty would kill himself, yet they had a plan ready that only works in the case of that event.

 

I can't quite give up hope that when Moriarty is revived, we will be taken back to The Fall once more and get some answers. It's probably the naivest hope I've had in years - the special will more likely celebrate a century of Sherlock Holmes culture rather than add anything to the plot of the series - but I'm still clinging to it.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

What also baffles me is that Sherlock admits they did not foresee Moriarty would kill himself, yet they had a plan ready that only works in the case of that event

Just because they didn't expect Moriarty to kill himself didn't mean they assumed he'd still be present, or even alive. The arrest scenario that Arcadia mentioned could have used the same basic plan. Or perhaps they thought Sherlock might have to knock him out or even kill him. They were apparently aware of the snipers, so perhaps they thought it was possible that their orders (under certain specific conditions) were to shoot Moriarty -- if he was about to divulge the recall code, for example.

 

I can't quite give up hope that when Moriarty is revived, we will be taken back to The Fall once more and get some answers. It's probably the naivest hope I've had in years - the special will more likely celebrate a century of Sherlock Holmes culture rather than add anything to the plot of the series - but I'm still clinging to it.

When you say "when Moriarty is revived" do you mean the character or the plot thread?

[T.o.b.y]

When you say "when Moriarty is revived" do you mean the character or the plot thread?

 

Both, I guess...

 

 

[Arcadia]

If we accept that Sherlock and Mycroft had everything planned out even before this episode started, and Moriarty was just following the path laid out for him, then I suppose it's not that much more of a stretch to believe that Sherlock had a plan to make sure Jim didn't see Big Blue. What that plan would be, though, I can't imagine.

[Carol the Dabbler]

When dealing with cats, the best approach is generally to set things up so they WANT to do what you'd like for them to do.  There must be some way to convince Moriarty that staying away from the edge of the roof is his idea.

 

[J.P.]

If we accept that Sherlock and Mycroft had everything planned out even before this episode started, and Moriarty was just following the path laid out for him

Well, they couldn't foresee everything. Sherlock apparently gets the idea of suicide after visiting Kitty. There was no one watching him, so his reaction/expression at that moment is most probably genuine. So they might have a plan, but only as an overall idea. It was still a chess match.

[sfmpco]

I keep forgetting to ask... what is the name of that music that is playing when Moriarty is being led to court?  Anyone know?

[Carol the Dabbler]

It's called "Sinner Man" and it's a lot older than most people probably assume.  Here it is being sung the The Seekers fifty years ago, but it goes back at least twice that far.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YR1zvvysdB8

 

... even though my laptop's sound isn't cooperating today, I assume y'all can hear that just fine.