Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"

[Arcadia]

Well, she called herself "The Woman" before Sherlock did, if you recall. I think it's probably from her.

 

I thought he was going to lick Sherlock ... ew. Just ew.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Thanks for the warnings!      I think I'll wait till we get our DVD set.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

No wonder Sherlock hated CAM so much. Eww is right...blech.

 

  And the cast said the single rose was from Irene. And it can be seen in the scene when Janine is visiting Sherlock. It's fuzzy but can be seen through the window.

[Schlauer Fuchs]

I think "W" is definitely the Woman. The Watsons wouldn't have a reason to just say "W" (nor is John the type to send a single red rose to his best friend's sickbed; sorry Johnlockers ). But Irene would have to make sure Mycroft (or anyone from Scotland Yard) wouldn't recognise her name or even initials, thus just the ominous "W".

 

What bothers me: A black wreath from C Block Pentonville?! From the director or a prisoner (which?)?? What do you make of this?

[T.o.b.y]

Oh, the rose is definitely from Irene. It is because... because I want it to be so. I don't think a whole other episode with her would be a good idea, but I want occasional hints that she is alive, and hasn't forgotten "the great detective in the silly hat". And she's very welcome to appear in the mind palace again as well.

 

I have not yet mustered enough courage to watch the deleted scene. It sounds disgusting. I'm glad it was cut. Are there any others?

[Schlauer Fuchs]

@Toby: any others who haven't seen it yet, or any other deleted scenes?

 

btw, here is Ariane DeVere's transcript. That might help some of you decide whether you want to watch the scene or not (although... how could anyone resist? )

 

edit: link fixed, thanks Arcadia!

[Janie]

I can't make myself watch it either. I hate Magnussen and if he really is even creepier in the deleted scene I really don't want to see it. 

[Arcadia]

Well, folks, if this helps ... you won't miss any great revelations if you DON'T watch it, it doesn't advance the plot any. Really, it's in there just to make CAM more loathsome. It succeeds.

[Arcadia]

here is Ariane DeVere's transcript.

Pssst! Schlauer, link doesn't work! Here's one to her contents page: http://arianedevere.livejournal.com/tag/transcript. She sure didn't waste any time, bless her!

[Schlauer Fuchs]

Oops, thanks Arcadia! Sorry, didn't notice it didn't work. Wonder why. I'll try to fix it.

[Zain]

Well, folks, if this helps ... you won't miss any great revelations if you DON'T watch it, it doesn't advance the plot any. Really, it's in there just to make CAM more loathsome. It succeeds.

 

 

No revelations in a sense that there is no information we didn't conclude before. But I still found that deleted scene more illuminating than I thought I would. A pity it got cut. I wonder why they decided against it.

 

The problem with the cut scene, though, is that it may have been cut, because they decided against what this scene establishes (mostly what we concluded before). Without that scene, we only had Magnussen's fear, and it could be taken for Mary simply threatening him to acquire the information he hid. It has been proposed before that she demanded her file, and to get it, she held him at gunpoint as a threat if he did not comply.

But if that had been part of the episode, then we'd know that Mary indeed intended to kill Magnussen. 

Because the scene was cut, we do not know if they decided to change her motivation. While they most likely cut it because they overcrowded the episode anyway, there is no certainty in it.

 

Then there's the fact that Magnussen, in this particular scene, essentially hands the gun to Sherlock.

Magnussen states that he intends to make use of the information at a later time. When Sherlock decides not to go to the police with what he knows, he actually complies with Magnussen's wish. He makes the information about Mary more valuable by not revealing her involvement. He makes the information usable for Magnussen, because now it is a secret. From what HLV implies (I am not yet interpreting, I am analyzing) Sherlock did not involve Mycroft, and he did not have Mary processed in any way. If Sherlock had revealed her involvement, it would have severely limited the usefulness of Magnussen's information.

 

I actually can see Sherlock's motivation more clearly in this scene (now I am interpreting!); driven by arrogance, he believes himself capable of beating Magnussen. He accepts the challenge to eliminate the threat and bury Mary's crimes. At Appledore, he then realizes that his own interference raised the stakes. He had taken the challenge to keep Mary out of prison, and if he lost, she'd go to prison (rightfully), but at Appledore, he realizes that it is now Mary's life at stake. And it is his own arrogance that has led to this development. If he had told the police and not taken Magnussen's bait, Mary would have simply gone to prison. Magnussen's information would have been next to worthless. The police would have found out the truth about her. Her cover is too weak to hold up to background research. 

 

In a way, that makes it easier to understand the story's flow. His hubris leads to his downfall. Sherlock's involvement threatened Mary's life, and when he realizes that he needs to rectify his mistake, he shoots Magnussen.

 

This scene severely questions his motive for "taking Mary's case." Did he go to Appledore to beat Magnussen at his own game... or to help Mary?

That is what I see in that cut scene. But again. It was cut for some reason or another.

 

I am not sure which version I prefer. The way I view the cut scene... it makes Sherlock seem incredibly arrogant. But I do not like to think that he would side with a killer and the woman who almost murdered him. If he was simply playing the game, then I can see him do that. Playing the devil's advocate to find some way to make it alright for himself to represent Mary. I'd rather the mess in HLV was initiated, because Sherlock couldn't keep his own arrogance in check than to have him be this blinded by the fear of alienating John. There's something incredibly sad about it, especially when considering John accepted Mary back after she hurt Sherlock.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

It's fun reading the outtakes.  It's almost as funny as watching them.

[T.o.b.y]

@Toby: any others who haven't seen it yet, or any other deleted scenes?

 

btw, here is Ariane DeVere's transcript. That might help some of you decide whether you want to watch the scene or not (although... how could anyone resist? )

 

edit: link fixed, thanks Arcadia!

 

I meant whether there are any other deleted scenes.

 

And I did finally watch the Magnussen clip, with no audio, though, to make it a bit more bearable. EWWWWWW!!!!! I am SO GLAD they cut that. How utterly disgusting!

 

It's a bit too bad that shot of Sherlock lying there like a beautiful corpse among all those flowers had to go too, though. I'll have to try and find a screenshot of that, sans Magnussen, of course.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Well, folks, if this helps ... you won't miss any great revelations if you DON'T watch it, it doesn't advance the plot any. Really, it's in there just to make CAM more loathsome. It succeeds.

 

CAM needed to be more loathsome?!?    Think I'll just wait till our DVD arrives (which should be sometime this month -- dang Atlantic is in the way!).

 

Zain, your post looks interesting, but since I haven't watched the scene yet, I just skimmed it.  Will try to remember to come back and give it due consideration later.

[T.o.b.y]

 

Well, folks, if this helps ... you won't miss any great revelations if you DON'T watch it, it doesn't advance the plot any. Really, it's in there just to make CAM more loathsome. It succeeds.

 

 

No revelations in a sense that there is no information we didn't conclude before. But I still found that deleted scene more illuminating than I thought I would. A pity it got cut. I wonder why they decided against it.

 

Hmmm, I have various theories on that, among them "doesn't advance the plot", like Arcadia said, but also "downright disgusting". Plus the cut where Magnussen's face is shown, very close and blurry from Sherlock's point of view, resembles the one where Mary bends over him and ordres him not to tell John. They might have wanted to avoid doing the same thing twice.

 

I don't think it's a pity at all that they took it out. For me, it's a F***ing blessing. Now they could go cut out the torture scene in The Empty Hearse, too (replace it with something better, of course) and throw both in the bin.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yeah, in my opinion that torture scene is uncomfortably close to porn -- and not the nice kind!

 

[sittything]

 

It's a bit too bad that shot of Sherlock lying there like a beautiful corpse among all those flowers had to go too, though. I'll have to try and find a screenshot of that, sans Magnussen, of course.

 

 

He really did kinda look like a corpse.  Frankly, that kinda creeped me out too.  lol

 

This is probably going to sound horribly wrong, but after watching the deleted scene I felt a lot less remorse that Sherlock resorted to shooting CAM.  

 

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

The thought never even occurred to me that Sherlock looked like a corpse in that scene, which upon 2nd viewing, I'd agree.  Another throw back to TRF only without all of the blood.  

 

*whispers to self, "must keep emotional state in check, must not let Moftiss get to us."*

[Pamela]

I put this in the DVD extras thread, but I'll put it here too.

 

I noticed in that awful video that CAM took the pulse monitor off of Sherlock's index finger and then he put it back on, ahem, another finger.  Hmm.

 

A random thought.  Wouldn't Sherlock have been in ICU?  Magnusson shouldn't have been allowed in, not being a relative.  Come to think of it, Mary and Janine shouldn't have either.  Oh, well.  I'm thinking too much.

[Zain]

Depends on when those events occur. Mary entered Sherlock's room about a day later, if I am not mistaken. Sherlock gets into the hospital when it is evening, John meets Mary in the hospital when the sun is up.

And Janine... unclear, but more than likely at most a day later. The police seems to not have been given all clear by the doctors yet. She probably was allowed into the room, because she told them she was his girlfriend. Close relation before police, police before other visitors. At least that's the procedure I know. May be different in Britain, but, putting myself at the spot to be severely reprimanded... the British and the German criminal prosecution systems are similar in a lot of ways. I believe that in studies they are often put into one group. But I may be misremembering it.

I think they took creative liberties. Sherlock's injuries were severe, and he certainly seems to be bouncing back rather quickly. And then, after his second collapse, he takes his time recovering.

[Boton]

I think the shooting occurred on Thursday night, and Janine's visit was Monday, while Leinster Gardens was no later than Tuesday.

 

Thursday: Sherlock and John break into CAM's by 7:30 or so. CAM has a meeting with the marketing council of Great Britain from 7-10 on his calendar. Thursday is the latest possible day you would realistically have a dinner meeting and observe a Sat/Sun weekend.

 

Thu overnight/Friday: Surgery. John stays overnight to wait for Sherlock to come out of post-op. Mary is his first visitor by early morning, maybe due to John's position with Bart's. Based on light cues, Mary visits early morning. CAM, if he visits (deleted scene), does so in full daylight. Sherlock is still under the influence of general anesthesia and major blood loss.

 

Saturday: Janine has either been told of Sherlock's duplicity or has figured it out. She calls and interviews with the tabloids, who will want to run this in the big Sunday editions.

 

Sunday: The story runs.

 

Monday: Janine visits. She has copies of the papers from yesterday, and she's headed to The One Show, which runs on weekdays. Meanwhile, consistent with major liver surgery recovery, Sherlock is asked to start taking short walks, such as down the hall. He also starts figuring out Mary's case.

 

Tuesday evening: With help (Wiggy?), Sherlock assembles his props but escapes Bart's himself sans props and out the window. Either abseiling out the window or moving John's chair or messing around Leinster Gardens intensifies the internal damage. He is able to truthfully tell the paramedics he was shot "last week."

 

Now, he faces a recovery that is several weeks to a few months, but mostly thanks to his own recklessness exacerbating the original injury.

[Carol the Dabbler]

OK, now I'm curious.  Where do you get Thursday night for the shooting?  I don't quite follow your reasoning there.  (And I assume everything else is derived from that.)

 

[sfmpco]

There are some interesting things about the deleted scene, however, not the least of which is Magnussen commenting on the flowers.  Not all of the flowers were present when Janine came by, so they may have toned that down a bit.

 

Sherlock is pretty out of it, but seemed even more out of it when Mary visited him... so I will assume the scene with Magnussen would have come after Mary's visit.

 

And obviously the script was tweaked so that there were no references to Magnussen visiting Sherlock in the hospital... because that would have made for quite a different confrontation at the end.  Sherlock may have shot him a lot sooner!

[Zain]

I am also curious about your time table. Are there specific references which you discovered? I didn't check the newspaper for a date, for example. Is that one of your sources?

Well, if they put Janine's visit that many days after Sherlock's surgery, that's stretching the willing suspense of disbelief a bit. They are asking us to accept that he wasn't ready for police questioning until then?...  I am going off this story with every new topic that is debated. This really isn't my episode. I should stop writing in this thread...

[Arcadia]

....I actually can see Sherlock's motivation more clearly in this scene (now I am interpreting!); driven by arrogance, he believes himself capable of beating Magnussen. He accepts the challenge to eliminate the threat and bury Mary's crimes. At Appledore, he then realizes that his own interference raised the stakes. He had taken the challenge to keep Mary out of prison, and if he lost, she'd go to prison (rightfully), but at Appledore, he realizes that it is now Mary's life at stake. And it is his own arrogance that has led to this development. If he had told the police and not taken Magnussen's bait, Mary would have simply gone to prison. Magnussen's information would have been next to worthless. The police would have found out the truth about her. Her cover is too weak to hold up to background research. 

 

In a way, that makes it easier to understand the story's flow. His hubris leads to his downfall.....

I like this interpretation. I always thought Sherlock's own ego was a factor in his decision to go after Magnussen, even before he was shot. (That, and the drugs interfering with his judgement. And of course he wanted to show up Mycroft.) At any rate, after the encounter with CAM at 221B, Sherlock's behavior indicates he really doesn't appreciate yet how dangerous CAM is. Finding out Mary was at risk raised the stakes, but even if she didn't exist, I think Sherlock would have still tried to bring CAM down, just to prove he could. And he still would have failed, because CAM was always a step or two ahead of him.

 

This is probably going to sound horribly wrong, but after watching the deleted scene I felt a lot less remorse that Sherlock resorted to shooting CAM.

You're right, it does sound horribly wrong. Join the Horribly Wrong Club. Even I want to shoot Magnussen now.

 

I meant whether there are any other deleted scenes.

I think the description on the DVD mentions only one deleted scene.