Speedy's Cafe - General Chat about anything you like!

[Pseudonym]

Eurus is definitely a downer for me (and ultimately pointless). I still like the post-Reichenbach fics best - though I'm having trouble finding new decent ones, starting to think I've read them all. 

[J.P.]

There is also this thought that the makers are not so clever as we assumed. I even have my own little headcanon, why they ended S4 in a hurry and don't want to continue anytime soon: We know that they never dreamed of how big the show became. Maybe it just grew too big. People started to put loads and loads of meanings into it (and I don't mean JL only), that were never meant to be. Which forced a lot of responsibilieties on the makers, who probably just wanted to make a funny show about an army doctor who wants to rent a flat.

It went too meaning-loaded, too complicated, and it started to have too much influence. If you see people going suicidal, it's probably the moment to kick the brakes.

 

Each time I thought I could actually become a writer, there was a detail that always scared the hell out of me: you are influencing others without wanting it, without even knowing it, and in ways you cannot predict or control. Remembering my own case, and knowing how much a story can mess up your brain, I was afraid, my work could make someone cross the line.

 

Maybe they realized that they cannot carry that much responsibility for something that was never meant to be serious.

[J.P.]

There is a post on Twitter that kind of confirms my view.

 

It's Su‏ @tonightwefly7 19h19 hours ago

 

Steven Moffat also said if people think series 4 makes no sense then what have they been watching for the last 3 series.

 

All logic in Sherlock is merely a side effect and wholly unintended.

[Carol the Dabbler]

All logic in Sherlock is merely a side effect and wholly unintended.

Then my favorite way of watching -- to kinda let the show wash over me like the surf -- is indeed the natural way.

 

While it's typical for writers and other artists to intend their work to mean something, isn't that usually just a general concept? I wonder if the people who analyze the show in minute detail also do that with their own lives?

[Pseudonym]

It's the super-long theses that people write about an inconsequential detail that get me. I don't have the time or energy to read them, I don't know how (or why) anyone manages to write them. I saw one about the 'you repel me' line that was ridiculously long and came to a conclusion that was so dramatic and over the top I just had to roll my eyes. 

 

I find it interesting how the perception of journalists in fiction has changed over the years. When Superman was written Clark Kent was a journalist because it was a cool, dynamic thing to be. These days the journalists are usually the bad guys everyone hates for their lies. 

[Arcadia]

 

My mother still has the habit of leaving leftover soup in the pot, sitting on the stove. I've always wondered why, she's always been careful about putting away everything else that should be refrigerated (except margarine. ) But in her mind, soup is supposed to be left out. I've always assumed it's something to do with her country upbringing, but she can't remember why she does it, so I'll never know.

 

She probably grew up cooking on a woodstove, right?  Same as my mom.  I don't recall ever hearing Mom talk about how they handled soup, but I've read that it used to be common to keep a pot of soup-in-progress on the (literally) back burner, where it could simmer gently, 24/7.  Every time you had some veggie trimmings, meat bones, etc., you'd toss those into the pot.  I guess it was more like making broth, because I assume you'd strain out the bones and potato peels -- maybe dip out some of the liquid and add meat, veggies, etc. to make actual soup.

 

Has your mom always stored leftover soup on the stove, or is this a more recent development?

 

I suspect you're right about all of that. I can't say she's always done it, but she's done it for a real long time now; ever since I started making soup. She was never much of a soup maker herself, as I recall, that was my hippy-dippy contribution to the family cuisine. And when my Dad was around, leftovers were a rare thing.

 

 

I have to say that I'm not in the mood of doing new S4 stuff either, TBH.

 

Maybe it's too much of s to be happy chatting about it.

 

Yeah, me neither.  In addition to what you said, I think it's the frequency of negative comments.  Kinda puts a crimp in my attempts to enjoy the show.  I finally started reading the T6T thread, but doubt that I'll go much further.

 

 

:( Sowwy. You could start new, positive comments though! I keep meaning to get back into the episode threads myself, just haven't made the time......

 

There is also this thought that the makers are not so clever as we assumed. I even have my own little headcanon, why they ended S4 in a hurry and don't want to continue anytime soon: We know that they never dreamed of how big the show became. Maybe it just grew too big. People started to put loads and loads of meanings into it (and I don't mean JL only), that were never meant to be. Which forced a lot of responsibilieties on the makers, who probably just wanted to make a funny show about an army doctor who wants to rent a flat.

It went too meaning-loaded, too complicated, and it started to have too much influence. If you see people going suicidal, it's probably the moment to kick the brakes.

 

Each time I thought I could actually become a writer, there was a detail that always scared the hell out of me: you are influencing others without wanting it, without even knowing it, and in ways you cannot predict or control. Remembering my own case, and knowing how much a story can mess up your brain, I was afraid, my work could make someone cross the line.

 

Maybe they realized that they cannot carry that much responsibility for something that was never meant to be serious.

That is the feeling I have as well; they're tired of the pressure of people wanting the show to be something it isn't.

 

Also I suspect the actors have lost some enthusiasm for it ... they've been awfully mum on the subject, it seems to me. Everyone has, except maybe Loo. But it's weird to me that in interviews, hardly anyone ever brings up Sherlock. Not that there's been that many interviews, either.....

[Pseudonym]

It's weird there wasn't much promoting of it. Did BC ever do a promo interview for it? MF was on Graham Norton, but the Sherlock discussion was pretty brief.

[J.P.]

I have also an impression that today EVERYTHING has to have a message. Hell, remember the All-gate?

Everything has to be politically correct, bring representation of nearly every group of people on Earth… Sometimes it's hard to write something fulfilling all the demands. And if it's not written, the viewers will find their own agenda.

 

It almost feels like the fandom wrote, meta-ed, philosophised itself into a corner. It is somehow sad that all of those fantastic, sophisticated theories were just mirages. Even more, the show was never meant to be clever, unfortunately it seemed very clever very much. And they had the best damn actors as leads.

 

BTW, the quotation above comes from the BFI appearances of our beloved show makers. Maybe there will be a bit more in media about them tomorrow.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Oh, I think the show is very clever in its own way, or rather in Moftiss's own way.  Just not in the myriad ways that the fifty zillion fans want.

[Van Buren Supernova]

That could be a price of excessive popularity and why I actually wish it's not that popular and the actors are not that big sometimes.

But then again, great shows like that (without excessive popularity) often get cancelled :(, because dollars and cents still play big role in anything.

 

Oh, my other wish is that social medias are not as big as what it is now. It's good that anybody can be heard now, but it comes with nasty consequences that everybody thinks they have reasonable things to say all the time. And worse, most people listen without filter.

 

And I agree about PC and all those. When I watch older shows, many of the content wouldn't have passed current trend. We have so many restrictions by PC that any shows are expected to represent everyone and everything while it shouldn't really have to all the time.

But then again, in current day there are more freedom to call something out, injustice and there are greater acceptance and expression for any kind of minorities that are suppressed back then.

 

So, is it double-edged sword?

[Arcadia]

There was a long article in today's paper about college instructors starting to teach students how to evaluate the accuracy of news they hear. (My first thought was, "Why weren't they doing that before now?" )

 

I read through all the steps -- for example, you should read several different sources, and check to see what political affiliations each source has. And I thought ... most people are never going to do that, because most people don't want to take the time. Or don't have the time to take. I find the whole thing rather scary......

[Carol the Dabbler]

Besides which, just knowing the political affiliation of a source doesn't tell you how likely they are to be telling the truth, it merely tells you how they view the world. You could conceivably have sources from half a dozen outlooks all telling the truth from their perspective -- which could give you a nice broad view of the subject, if you took the time to read them all, and assuming your eyes didn't glaze over about the third time you read the same basic information. Or all six could be willfully distorting their account (AKA "lying") to suit their own purposes. Or (perhaps most likely) they could each be sensationalizing the story in a different way, which just makes the whole thing even more annoying.

 

I still miss Walter Cronkite.

[Arcadia]

I suspect in this political climate, even Uncle Walt would be accused of peddling fake news. :(

[Carol the Dabbler]

By both sides, yeah.  :P

[Fantasy Lover]

And there's been another attack, awesome.

[Pseudonym]

The Borussia Dortmund one? So glad no one died this time.

[Pseudonym]

Not sure where this belongs so I'll stick it here.

 

 

I HATE the costume design of those shoes. They look like trainers with spats attached to them with insulation tape. 

[Arcadia]

Oh no, we're not discussing shoes again! Ak! 

[T.o.b.y]

Oh, I think the show is very clever in its own way, or rather in Moftiss's own way. Just not in the myriad ways that the fifty zillion fans want.

Me too. And I like that quote about the series making sense (or not) in general.

 

Personally, I just want fiction to give me food for thought, I am happy to do the thinking myself and accept that the product will turn out to be mine more than the creator's. I need my entertainment to have some meaning but that doesn't have to be intentional. With shows like Sherlock especially, I don't sit there trying to figure out what the writers might be trying to tell me, I just enjoy the ride and let my brain associate away.

[Arcadia]

I think for me it depends. There was that Tom Hanks movie, Terminal ... I liked it quite a bit, but something about it that made me think the whole thing was a metaphor for something else, and I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what Spielberg was trying to say. Never did, though.

 

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Castaway was somewhat metaphorical too, but that movie works for me on so many levels already, I'm content with whatever associations my own little brain made. I'm not curious about Spielberg's intent at all.

 

So there's parts of Sherlock where I'm happy just thinking whatever thoughts I have about it; but there's other times where I'd happily strangle Moftiss if it would get them to tell me what they meant. It doesn't help that I'm pretty sure they're chortling about it all the way to the bank.

[Arcadia]

By the way, does the forum seem slower than usual to anyone else? I've been noticing it for a couple of days; the cursor takes longer to get into place when I want to type, posting things takes longer, stuff like that. I suspect it's just my computer or my wifi having a good sulk, but I'm wondering if anyone else is noticing the same thing.

[Pseudonym]

You have my sincere apologies for daring to bring up shoes. But I can't handle how fugly they are. They hurt my eyes. I wanted to know I wasn't alone. :*( 

 

I'm not seeing any difference in the speed of the forum or having any problems. 

[Arcadia]

But you are alone ....

[Pseudonym]

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Pseud, I agree with the boots looking like trainers. I would have expected more of a boot version of his Sherlock shoes maybe with some crazy straps on it.